Fire in tower block in London.

[Main Street]

Does anyone know how many people escaped? and how many people are actually missing/feared dead? It seems like the media are downplaying the death toll but when you do the maths it doesn't look good

They're saying at least a 100. Sun front page deflecting attention away fron May towards London mayor.

Even Channel 4 news are pointing out the problem stated with Labour relaxing the fire regulations and all parties not regularly upgrading building regs to take account of new building methods and new materials.

Khan should be a focus for everyone, he is the elected leader for London and has to take the anger coming his way whether he is responsible or not.  He appears to revel in the position as Mayor and needs to accept that central government is a major step back from running London and he is now in the firing line.

Isn't the London mayor's role largely ceremonial?

Considering the timing  of the fire, the 20 floor tower block inferno, the lack of alarms, bad advice, it's astonishing that more than 100 are not missing and that so many made an escape by their own devices or with help from the resolute fire brigade personnel.

[Owen Brannigan]

Isn't the London mayor's role largely ceremonial?

Considering the timing  of the fire, the 20 floor tower block inferno, the lack of alarms, bad advice, it's astonishing that more than 100 are not missing and that so many made an escape by their own devices or with help from the resolute fire brigade personnel.

Far from it, you are maybe thinking of the Lord Mayor.  In UK the mayor of a large city has full control of all funding and and has responsibility for fire, police, etc.  Khan has authority over the Met Police, etc.  His predecessors had millions to spend on projects, e.g. Boris had a vanity project set up to construct a garden bridge over the Thames cost £30m+ which Khan has stopped.  Khan is responsible for London transport and all such infrastructure projects, e.g. he is putting wifi into the Tube system, such a priority.  Ultimately, the mayor works within national guidelines but he would have had responsibility for building control matters and the provision of social housing.  In London there is the elected mayor and assembly with control of virtually all London matters with a fund of many millions.

[Boycey]

Isn't the London mayor's role largely ceremonial?

Considering the timing  of the fire, the 20 floor tower block inferno, the lack of alarms, bad advice, it's astonishing that more than 100 are not missing and that so many made an escape by their own devices or with help from the resolute fire brigade personnel.

Far from it, you are maybe thinking of the Lord Mayor.  In UK the mayor of a large city has full control of all funding and and has responsibility for fire, police, etc.  Khan has authority over the Met Police, etc.  His predecessors had millions to spend on projects, e.g. Boris had a vanity project set up to construct a garden bridge over the Thames cost £30m+ which Khan has stopped.  Khan is responsible for London transport and all such infrastructure projects, e.g. he is putting wifi into the Tube system, such a priority.  Ultimately, the mayor works within national guidelines but he would have had responsibility for building control matters and the provision of social housing.  In London there is the elected mayor and assembly with control of virtually all London matters with a fund of many millions.

While not absolving him of all blame shouldn't it be the position of Mayor of London thats under scrutiny not a guy that's in the job 13 months..

[Keyser soze]

Isn't the London mayor's role largely ceremonial?

Considering the timing  of the fire, the 20 floor tower block inferno, the lack of alarms, bad advice, it's astonishing that more than 100 are not missing and that so many made an escape by their own devices or with help from the resolute fire brigade personnel.

Far from it, you are maybe thinking of the Lord Mayor.  In UK the mayor of a large city has full control of all funding and and has responsibility for fire, police, etc.  Khan has authority over the Met Police, etc.  His predecessors had millions to spend on projects, e.g. Boris had a vanity project set up to construct a garden bridge over the Thames cost £30m+ which Khan has stopped.  Khan is responsible for London transport and all such infrastructure projects, e.g. he is putting wifi into the Tube system, such a priority.  Ultimately, the mayor works within national guidelines but he would have had responsibility for building control matters and the provision of social housing.  In London there is the elected mayor and assembly with control of virtually all London matters with a fund of many millions.

The mayor of London has control of the police and fire brigade??? He is responsible for building control and the provision of social housing in in Kensington Borough Council???

I will be astonished if these are true, do you have any facts to back these assertions up, or sources.

[Owen Brannigan]

Isn't the London mayor's role largely ceremonial?

Considering the timing  of the fire, the 20 floor tower block inferno, the lack of alarms, bad advice, it's astonishing that more than 100 are not missing and that so many made an escape by their own devices or with help from the resolute fire brigade personnel.

Far from it, you are maybe thinking of the Lord Mayor.  In UK the mayor of a large city has full control of all funding and and has responsibility for fire, police, etc.  Khan has authority over the Met Police, etc.  His predecessors had millions to spend on projects, e.g. Boris had a vanity project set up to construct a garden bridge over the Thames cost £30m+ which Khan has stopped.  Khan is responsible for London transport and all such infrastructure projects, e.g. he is putting wifi into the Tube system, such a priority.  Ultimately, the mayor works within national guidelines but he would have had responsibility for building control matters and the provision of social housing.  In London there is the elected mayor and assembly with control of virtually all London matters with a fund of many millions.

While not absolving him of all blame shouldn't it be the position of Mayor of London thats under scrutiny not a guy that's in the job 13 months..

That's the problem with a major job like that.  In the eyes of the public when can you stop blaming the man/woman before you and begin to take responsibility for the present?

Khan thought he could walk in to that situation and be adored by the ordinary people, they were too ready for him and angry as you say at the post holder who sought to give platitudes while leaving the local council of Kensington to continue to do little for the poor in their midst.  He should have had the situation assessed and arrived with some solutions, e.g. the Red Cross put out a tweet to ask the public to stop donating food and clothes and for someone to provide boxes and storage for the existing collection, if I could read that here should Khan not have taken even that simple message and arranged from his vast resources to have the collections boxed and stored for when required?

[Walter Cronc]

While the mayor has control over overall spending & infrastructure, development proposals are controlled within boroughs. Therefore the responsibility lies with the Royal Borough of K&C and what is contained within their 'core strategy'.

From the London Plan 2016. In 441 pages there is very little reference to fire safety.

The London Resilience Partnership maintains the London Risk Register232. New
development should incorporate fire safety solutions and represent best practice
in fire safety planning in both design and management. The London Fire and
Emergency Planning Authority (LFEPA) should be consulted early in the design
process to ensure major projects and venues have solutions to fire engineering
built-in.

Does refurbishment come under new development? I doubt it.

[Owen Brannigan]

While the mayor has control over overall spending & infrastructure, development proposals are controlled within boroughs. Therefore the responsibility lies with the Royal Borough of K&C and what is contained within their 'core strategy'.

From the London Plan 2016. In 441 pages there is very little reference to fire safety.

The London Resilience Partnership maintains the London Risk Register232. New
development should incorporate fire safety solutions and represent best practice
in fire safety planning in both design and management. The London Fire and
Emergency Planning Authority (LFEPA) should be consulted early in the design
process to ensure major projects and venues have solutions to fire engineering
built-in.

Does refurbishment come under new development? I doubt it.

No.  All new developments above a certain height must have a sprinkler system but Grenfell tower was not considered a new development and the sprinkler system was optional.  Council are trying to lay blamed for not spending the £200K required on a sprinkler system on the residents who were asked and didn't want further disruption given the refurbishment work.

[Owen Brannigan]

More information on the panels, an extra £5K would have bought non-flammable panels.  Those used are banned in US for use on tall buildings.  Also banned in Australia since disaster in Melbourne in 2014.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-latest-london-cladding-banned-us-flammable-a7792711.html

[Walter Cronc]

Now believed that 76 are missing, along with the 17 confirmed dead!

[J70]

More information on the panels, an extra £5K would have bought non-flammable panels.  Those used are banned in US for use on tall buildings.  Also banned in Australia since disaster in Melbourne in 2014.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-latest-london-cladding-banned-us-flammable-a7792711.html

I hope they have deep pockets and good insurance.

[Main Street]

While the mayor has control over overall spending & infrastructure, development proposals are controlled within boroughs. Therefore the responsibility lies with the Royal Borough of K&C and what is contained within their 'core strategy'.

The London mayor does not have control over the budget, according to this account,
https://fullfact.org/news/what-can-mayor-london-actually-do/
"Limits to the Mayor's powers come through accountability checks set in place back when the GLA was created"
The Mayor can negotiate with the government for funds, can set the budget, but that must be later approved by the London Assembly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Assembly

The London Assembly of 25 have the final authority and they have full control over these committees https://www.london.gov.uk/moderngov/mgListCommittees.aspx?bcr=1
The London mayor's powers have been watered down considerably since the days when Red Ken got up "their" noses.

[Hereiam]

This will be landing on the door step of the architect who done this job.

[Tony Baloney]

I think it was Armaghniac who correctly said that the standards are at fault. If there is a legal requirement for a minimum standard of panel to ensure fire retardancy then it should have been in place. It appears that although the cladding appears to be a disaster, there is nothing illegal about their use. That's a massive oversight if that is the case.

Was chatting to one of the Facilities Managers in work this morning and he said that in some of these composite panels the insulation melts and when trapped in the bottom of the panel in liquid form it flashes over which may be why the building took off the way it did.

[Walter Cronc]

Whats pretty galling is how it appears there is a clear communication strategy for the government, police and various media sources on the number of deaths here.

To me it feels like the public are being drip fed the death toll as to minimise anger and outrage.

If someone is missing and unaccounted for at this stage then they are dead!

Perhaps social media will shed more light on the truth.

[Tony Baloney]

Whats pretty galling is how it appears there is a clear communication strategy for the government, police and various media sources on the number of deaths here.

To me it feels like the public are being drip fed the death toll as to minimise anger and outrage.

If someone is missing and unaccounted for at this stage then they are dead!

Perhaps social media will shed more light on the truth.

Same in Manchester. People were deluded to think that Olivia Campbell etc. were not dead but they were reported missing until they were conformed as dead. The people confirmed as dead will have been identified. I think most people are intelligent enough to join the dots.