Is FF gone as a party?

[93-DY-SAM]

I wonder is this why Itchy was demanding I tell him who I voted for?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-under-pressure-to-reveal-location-of-its-secret-voter-database-40306631.html

So sssentially, FFG are outraged that SF have an electronic database of voters? I enjoyed the bit in the article which notes that all parties get an electronic copy of eh....the electoral register of voters.

It's like the Indo have reached peak desperation.

The register is available online, and just consists of a name and area where you live. I think the issue would be if SF is storing personal information about voters on top of just the name. People get annoyed with Big Tech doing that, and advertising tracking companies, and it likely violates GDPR. So it should raise eyebrows if a political party is doing that.

The Data Protection commissioner gave a bollocking to several TDs in the past, I don't see why SF should be any different, and holding the database outside of places respecting GDPR would be definite problem.

It might be interesting to ask SF for a copy of all information held about you.

Why do people quote GDPR as if it is the answer to anything personal data related. Business and organisations are allowed to store personal information which has been captured with the knowledge of the person for its intended uses is legitimate and does not break GDPR rules. You can argue away to your blue in the face about what is a legitimate need for SF to hold certain data but only people in that or any organisation know what the need is for it. Business and organisations also have a legal obligation to protect that data such as ensuring only people who need it have access to it, that the data is stored in a safe and secure manner or that people are not carelessly leaving print outs etc of personal information lying around the place in offices or elsewhere and so forth.

You are forgetting an important formula that is used in the Indo offices which makes your argument void

S + F = BAD

I wasn't really making any argument as there is nothing to argue in terms of GDPR. I was just pointing out that people are quick to quote GDPR without actually understanding what it means.

[Itchy]

What sort of economic policy would SF run?

You won't get an answer to that from a SF supporter.
Someone else is going to pay for it, so it really doesn't matter !

I look forward to seeing what they actually do. They'll be the biggest part after the next election, absent a complete collapse.
FF and FG should of course not go into coalition with them due to their diametrically opposed policies and strategies. So they'll need to get the parties of the left to come together, if they don't get the overall majority. That'll be interesting.

Any economists out there like to describe the current FFG economic policy?

Well for example, today's news on economics includes:
- projected growth of 4.5% in the economy this year
- despite the damage wrought by Covid, the economy has been resilient and tax income has held up better than expected
- Modified Domestic Demand, which focuses on the domestic economy, is forecast to grow by 2.5% in 2021 and 7.5% next year

Wheres it all going?

[Hound]

What sort of economic policy would SF run?

You won't get an answer to that from a SF supporter.
Someone else is going to pay for it, so it really doesn't matter !

I look forward to seeing what they actually do. They'll be the biggest part after the next election, absent a complete collapse.
FF and FG should of course not go into coalition with them due to their diametrically opposed policies and strategies. So they'll need to get the parties of the left to come together, if they don't get the overall majority. That'll be interesting.

Any economists out there like to describe the current FFG economic policy?

Well for example, today's news on economics includes:
- projected growth of 4.5% in the economy this year
- despite the damage wrought by Covid, the economy has been resilient and tax income has held up better than expected
- Modified Domestic Demand, which focuses on the domestic economy, is forecast to grow by 2.5% in 2021 and 7.5% next year

Wheres it all going?

What the SF line of "Just to the rich"?

Pre Covid we were as close to full employment as you can get. Probably would be full employment but our social welfare payments are well in excess of our nearest neighbours.

Pre Covid, the following stats would make very interesting reason and comparisons to other countries:
- % of people who go on regular foreign holidays
- % of people who eat out in a restaurant once a month or more
- % of people who subscribe to Netflix
- % of people who have a least 1 gaming system in the house
- % of people who have a car

I've a strong feeling we'd be high up.

Certainly the UN and other bodies who do "Best places to live" / "qualify of life" analysis, puts Ireland as almost always one of the Top 10 places in the world to live and often closer to the top. In the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, we'd scraping into the Top 50.

As I've said before, FF and FG are a long way from getting everything right, but by in large economic policy in the last 30 years has been pretty good, notwithstanding the crash.

[Rossfan]

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/7e05d-programme-for-government-our-shared-future/

[macker15]

Tis a great country

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/revealedfamily-members-amongtds-and-senators674k-spend-on-special-allowance-40301794.html

[seafoid]

What sort of economic policy would SF run?

You won't get an answer to that from a SF supporter.
Someone else is going to pay for it, so it really doesn't matter !

I look forward to seeing what they actually do. They'll be the biggest part after the next election, absent a complete collapse.
FF and FG should of course not go into coalition with them due to their diametrically opposed policies and strategies. So they'll need to get the parties of the left to come together, if they don't get the overall majority. That'll be interesting.

Any economists out there like to describe the current FFG economic policy?

Well for example, today's news on economics includes:
- projected growth of 4.5% in the economy this year
- despite the damage wrought by Covid, the economy has been resilient and tax income has held up better than expected
- Modified Domestic Demand, which focuses on the domestic economy, is forecast to grow by 2.5% in 2021 and 7.5% next year

Wheres it all going?

What the SF line of "Just to the rich"?

Pre Covid we were as close to full employment as you can get. Probably would be full employment but our social welfare payments are well in excess of our nearest neighbours.

Pre Covid, the following stats would make very interesting reason and comparisons to other countries:
- % of people who go on regular foreign holidays
- % of people who eat out in a restaurant once a month or more
- % of people who subscribe to Netflix
- % of people who have a least 1 gaming system in the house
- % of people who have a car

I've a strong feeling we'd be high up.

Certainly the UN and other bodies who do "Best places to live" / "qualify of life" analysis, puts Ireland as almost always one of the Top 10 places in the world to live and often closer to the top. In the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, we'd scraping into the Top 50.

As I've said before, FF and FG are a long way from getting everything right, but by in large economic policy in the last 30 years has been pretty good, notwithstanding the crash.

House prices are beyond the reach of many lower paid workers. They are also contingent.
Voters don't like negative equity. Rents take up huge percentages of wages in some industries. It's all very fragile.

[Itchy]

What sort of economic policy would SF run?

You won't get an answer to that from a SF supporter.
Someone else is going to pay for it, so it really doesn't matter !

I look forward to seeing what they actually do. They'll be the biggest part after the next election, absent a complete collapse.
FF and FG should of course not go into coalition with them due to their diametrically opposed policies and strategies. So they'll need to get the parties of the left to come together, if they don't get the overall majority. That'll be interesting.

Any economists out there like to describe the current FFG economic policy?

Well for example, today's news on economics includes:
- projected growth of 4.5% in the economy this year
- despite the damage wrought by Covid, the economy has been resilient and tax income has held up better than expected
- Modified Domestic Demand, which focuses on the domestic economy, is forecast to grow by 2.5% in 2021 and 7.5% next year

Wheres it all going?

What the SF line of "Just to the rich"?

Pre Covid we were as close to full employment as you can get. Probably would be full employment but our social welfare payments are well in excess of our nearest neighbours.

Pre Covid, the following stats would make very interesting reason and comparisons to other countries:
- % of people who go on regular foreign holidays
- % of people who eat out in a restaurant once a month or more
- % of people who subscribe to Netflix
- % of people who have a least 1 gaming system in the house
- % of people who have a car

I've a strong feeling we'd be high up.

Certainly the UN and other bodies who do "Best places to live" / "qualify of life" analysis, puts Ireland as almost always one of the Top 10 places in the world to live and often closer to the top. In the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, we'd scraping into the Top 50.

As I've said before, FF and FG are a long way from getting everything right, but by in large economic policy in the last 30 years has been pretty good, notwithstanding the crash.

So why are FF & FG at a lower combined total of the vote than they ever have had in history? We are amongst the happiest people on earth, we have a great economy yet we are turning away from the parties that delivered it? I am not sure this all stacks up Hound.

[Rossfan]

Obvious answer is because FF have lost their position as by far the biggest party. Reflected in the plethora of Independents.
Other reasons...
Part of the general kick against the Establishment?
People fed up of the same old same old?
Younger folks don't "support" a Party like their parents and grandparents did.
In 2020 difficulties of young people getting housing even the very well off ones, cost of rent, lack of social/affordable housing.
Sinn Féin populism.
Governing parties only seeing an Economy not a Society.

If people are upset at the governing parties at a good economic time what will they be like if we get 5 years of a "Socialist republic"

[Hound]

What sort of economic policy would SF run?

You won't get an answer to that from a SF supporter.
Someone else is going to pay for it, so it really doesn't matter !

I look forward to seeing what they actually do. They'll be the biggest part after the next election, absent a complete collapse.
FF and FG should of course not go into coalition with them due to their diametrically opposed policies and strategies. So they'll need to get the parties of the left to come together, if they don't get the overall majority. That'll be interesting.

Any economists out there like to describe the current FFG economic policy?

Well for example, today's news on economics includes:
- projected growth of 4.5% in the economy this year
- despite the damage wrought by Covid, the economy has been resilient and tax income has held up better than expected
- Modified Domestic Demand, which focuses on the domestic economy, is forecast to grow by 2.5% in 2021 and 7.5% next year

Wheres it all going?

What the SF line of "Just to the rich"?

Pre Covid we were as close to full employment as you can get. Probably would be full employment but our social welfare payments are well in excess of our nearest neighbours.

Pre Covid, the following stats would make very interesting reason and comparisons to other countries:
- % of people who go on regular foreign holidays
- % of people who eat out in a restaurant once a month or more
- % of people who subscribe to Netflix
- % of people who have a least 1 gaming system in the house
- % of people who have a car

I've a strong feeling we'd be high up.

Certainly the UN and other bodies who do "Best places to live" / "qualify of life" analysis, puts Ireland as almost always one of the Top 10 places in the world to live and often closer to the top. In the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, we'd scraping into the Top 50.

As I've said before, FF and FG are a long way from getting everything right, but by in large economic policy in the last 30 years has been pretty good, notwithstanding the crash.

So why are FF & FG at a lower combined total of the vote than they ever have had in history? We are amongst the happiest people on earth, we have a great economy yet we are turning away from the parties that delivered it? I am not sure this all stacks up Hound.

Why did 74 million Americans vote for Donald Trump to be their president?

But in an Irish context, I believe that mistakes get focussed on much more than successes. Some people say that FG and FF don't get criticised in the media. I think that's a load of nonsense and belongs on the conspiracy thread, similar to unionists saying nationalists get special favourable treatment from the PSNI.

You might get away with the odd thing here and there, but in general mistakes are front page news, they are analysed and scrutinised and there's lot of outrage and often exaggeration.  And (apart from the exaggeration piece if that happens) that's exactly what should happen. The government should be accountable for their mistakes.
But when they get stuff right, there's not a whole heap of credit going around, "they're doing their job". Those things I listed above seem to be taken for granted by a lot of people.

Economic policy over the last 3 decades has been very successful, when judged in totality. That's really unarguable, even though some very poor decisions were made by FF around the crash. And people in general would criticise the mistakes of the crash a lot more than give credit to the way the economy has gone since then. In particular in recent years they learned a lot from the mistakes of the crash which resulted in the economy surviving Covid a lot better than expected. But you see don't see too many headlines or social media posts about that.

From an academic viewpoint, I would be fascinated to see how a SF / left alliance would govern this country. I would worry (a lot) that they could jeopardise the economy and drive down employment levels, but maybe they wouldn't and it'd be interesting to see. But when I hear people say "well they can't do any worse than the current crowd", then I think "gobshite". Because certainly that's very possible!

[Armagh18]

What sort of economic policy would SF run?

You won't get an answer to that from a SF supporter.
Someone else is going to pay for it, so it really doesn't matter !

I look forward to seeing what they actually do. They'll be the biggest part after the next election, absent a complete collapse.
FF and FG should of course not go into coalition with them due to their diametrically opposed policies and strategies. So they'll need to get the parties of the left to come together, if they don't get the overall majority. That'll be interesting.

Any economists out there like to describe the current FFG economic policy?

Well for example, today's news on economics includes:
- projected growth of 4.5% in the economy this year
- despite the damage wrought by Covid, the economy has been resilient and tax income has held up better than expected
- Modified Domestic Demand, which focuses on the domestic economy, is forecast to grow by 2.5% in 2021 and 7.5% next year

Wheres it all going?

What the SF line of "Just to the rich"?

Pre Covid we were as close to full employment as you can get. Probably would be full employment but our social welfare payments are well in excess of our nearest neighbours.

Pre Covid, the following stats would make very interesting reason and comparisons to other countries:
- % of people who go on regular foreign holidays
- % of people who eat out in a restaurant once a month or more
- % of people who subscribe to Netflix
- % of people who have a least 1 gaming system in the house
- % of people who have a car

I've a strong feeling we'd be high up.

Certainly the UN and other bodies who do "Best places to live" / "qualify of life" analysis, puts Ireland as almost always one of the Top 10 places in the world to live and often closer to the top. In the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, we'd scraping into the Top 50.

As I've said before, FF and FG are a long way from getting everything right, but by in large economic policy in the last 30 years has been pretty good, notwithstanding the crash.

So why are FF & FG at a lower combined total of the vote than they ever have had in history? We are amongst the happiest people on earth, we have a great economy yet we are turning away from the parties that delivered it? I am not sure this all stacks up Hound.

Why did 74 million Americans vote for Donald Trump to be their president?

But in an Irish context, I believe that mistakes get focussed on much more than successes. Some people say that FG and FF don't get criticised in the media. I think that's a load of nonsense and belongs on the conspiracy thread, similar to unionists saying nationalists get special favourable treatment from the PSNI.

You might get away with the odd thing here and there, but in general mistakes are front page news, they are analysed and scrutinised and there's lot of outrage and often exaggeration.  And (apart from the exaggeration piece if that happens) that's exactly what should happen. The government should be accountable for their mistakes.
But when they get stuff right, there's not a whole heap of credit going around, "they're doing their job". Those things I listed above seem to be taken for granted by a lot of people.

Economic policy over the last 3 decades has been very successful, when judged in totality. That's really unarguable, even though some very poor decisions were made by FF around the crash. And people in general would criticise the mistakes of the crash a lot more than give credit to the way the economy has gone since then. In particular in recent years they learned a lot from the mistakes of the crash which resulted in the economy surviving Covid a lot better than expected. But you see don't see too many headlines or social media posts about that.

From an academic viewpoint, I would be fascinated to see how a SF / left alliance would govern this country. I would worry (a lot) that they could jeopardise the economy and drive down employment levels, but maybe they wouldn't and it'd be interesting to see. But when I hear people say "well they can't do any worse than the current crowd", then I think "gobshite". Because certainly that's very possible!

If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.

[Itchy]

What sort of economic policy would SF run?

You won't get an answer to that from a SF supporter.
Someone else is going to pay for it, so it really doesn't matter !

I look forward to seeing what they actually do. They'll be the biggest part after the next election, absent a complete collapse.
FF and FG should of course not go into coalition with them due to their diametrically opposed policies and strategies. So they'll need to get the parties of the left to come together, if they don't get the overall majority. That'll be interesting.

Any economists out there like to describe the current FFG economic policy?

Well for example, today's news on economics includes:
- projected growth of 4.5% in the economy this year
- despite the damage wrought by Covid, the economy has been resilient and tax income has held up better than expected
- Modified Domestic Demand, which focuses on the domestic economy, is forecast to grow by 2.5% in 2021 and 7.5% next year

Wheres it all going?

What the SF line of "Just to the rich"?

Pre Covid we were as close to full employment as you can get. Probably would be full employment but our social welfare payments are well in excess of our nearest neighbours.

Pre Covid, the following stats would make very interesting reason and comparisons to other countries:
- % of people who go on regular foreign holidays
- % of people who eat out in a restaurant once a month or more
- % of people who subscribe to Netflix
- % of people who have a least 1 gaming system in the house
- % of people who have a car

I've a strong feeling we'd be high up.

Certainly the UN and other bodies who do "Best places to live" / "qualify of life" analysis, puts Ireland as almost always one of the Top 10 places in the world to live and often closer to the top. In the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, we'd scraping into the Top 50.

As I've said before, FF and FG are a long way from getting everything right, but by in large economic policy in the last 30 years has been pretty good, notwithstanding the crash.

So why are FF & FG at a lower combined total of the vote than they ever have had in history? We are amongst the happiest people on earth, we have a great economy yet we are turning away from the parties that delivered it? I am not sure this all stacks up Hound.

Why did 74 million Americans vote for Donald Trump to be their president?

But in an Irish context, I believe that mistakes get focussed on much more than successes. Some people say that FG and FF don't get criticised in the media. I think that's a load of nonsense and belongs on the conspiracy thread, similar to unionists saying nationalists get special favourable treatment from the PSNI.

You might get away with the odd thing here and there, but in general mistakes are front page news, they are analysed and scrutinised and there's lot of outrage and often exaggeration.  And (apart from the exaggeration piece if that happens) that's exactly what should happen. The government should be accountable for their mistakes.
But when they get stuff right, there's not a whole heap of credit going around, "they're doing their job". Those things I listed above seem to be taken for granted by a lot of people.

Economic policy over the last 3 decades has been very successful, when judged in totality. That's really unarguable, even though some very poor decisions were made by FF around the crash. And people in general would criticise the mistakes of the crash a lot more than give credit to the way the economy has gone since then. In particular in recent years they learned a lot from the mistakes of the crash which resulted in the economy surviving Covid a lot better than expected. But you see don't see too many headlines or social media posts about that.

From an academic viewpoint, I would be fascinated to see how a SF / left alliance would govern this country. I would worry (a lot) that they could jeopardise the economy and drive down employment levels, but maybe they wouldn't and it'd be interesting to see. But when I hear people say "well they can't do any worse than the current crowd", then I think "gobshite". Because certainly that's very possible!

If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.

Completely agree, it is hard to consider how anyone could not see that. The last general election was a disgrace the way the Quinn family in particular were used to attack SF. Where has the championing of that gone to since. Where are the RTE employees with close links to SF?

[Hound]

If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.

That's not what I said.

But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.

In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.

Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.

[Armagh18]

If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.

That's not what I said.

But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.

In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.

Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.

I wouldn't say any party gets a free ride, but the "establishment" parties get it much easier than SF for sure.

[Tubberman]

If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.

That's not what I said.

But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.

In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.

Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.

I wouldn't say any party gets a free ride, but the "establishment" parties get it much easier than SF for sure.

This "establishment" vs "anti-establishment" stuff is straight out of the Trump playbook.
SFs slogan will be "drain the bog" I suppose

[Itchy]

If you think that the establishment parties do not get a much easier time of it compared to SF from the media you are deluded.

That's not what I said.

But there have been comments on this thread that FF and FG don't get criticised and that SF suffer only criticism.

In my opinion, the vast majority of people who hold this conspiracy theory of a view don't read the Irish Times and they don't watch current affairs programmes on RTE or TV3/Virgin, they don't watch Mary Lou being interviewed regularly on the Six-One news.

Instead they get their information from people who show them an instance of a SFer getting a hard time and/or an instance of someone from FG or FF getting a seemingly easy ride, and then they take that as carte blanche that FF and FG never get criticised! It's nonsense.
SF love supporters love this conspiracy. Us against the establishment.

I wouldn't say any party gets a free ride, but the "establishment" parties get it much easier than SF for sure.

This "establishment" vs "anti-establishment" stuff is straight out of the Trump playbook.
SFs slogan will be "drain the bog" I suppose

What word would you prefer. "Traditional" or something else.