It's all Ulster football's fault

[Jinxy]

Replace all Ulster coaches with Meath coaches.
Tactics are destroying the game.

[Carbery]

Isn't it great to hear McHuh express an opinion without getting paid for it.

[Jinxy]

First time he's been right about anything.

[mrdeeds]

Martin McHugh: 'Ulster coaches have destroyed Gaelic football'

"I think Ulster coaches have destroyed the game. They took it to a level where it's going on in schools in Ulster and it's going on all over coaching. It's coached to get your defence right first and try to break. When teams copped on to that, they sit and allow that.

"Dublin are very good at it now and they know how to play against it. The game is definitely not as good a spectacle to watch.
"I'm an Ulster man myself and it's Ulster that did start it and are doing it. It's not attractive and it's going on at club level and everything else."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/martin-mchugh-ulster-coaches-have-destroyed-gaelic-football-857422.html

I think Martin need only look inside his own county to find the origin of ultra defensive possession based football rather than blame the whole of Ulster.

Jimmy McGuinness was the source of the type of modern gaelic football that we see quite often now. Or just cheap imitation's of it with a little bit more finesse in many instances.

Sure why stop with McGuinness. He didn't invent the blanket defense. He merely took what Tyrone did before him and developed a more extreme, organized version. Donegal used a blanket defense against a superior, but also defensive, Armagh team in the 2003 AI semi and very nearly beat them

But that's kind of beside McHugh's point anyway. Whatever its source, it has pervaded all levels of the game, especially in Ulster, and we now have to reckon with that.

Tyrone did not use a blanket defence. A blanket defence is dropping every player back. What Tyrone did was swarm around the man in possession and was aggressive tackling often high up the pitch. Tyrone All Ireland finals were cracking games with the 2008 final the best I've ever seen.

The term " blanket defense" precedes McGuinness by nearly a  decade. Tyrone may have harried players UP the field at times, but the predominant image was of surrounding players, turning the ball over and playing fast on the break. McGuinness didn't invent it from first principles. Tyrone were the inspiration. I don't know why you Tyrone boys are so sensitive about this that you have to hide behind semantics, especially as you've more recently, in turn, taken what McGuinness did and ran with that, in turn. No one is saying that 2000s Tyrone went to the extremes McGuinness did.

And on entertainment, Donegal under McGuinness played some very exciting games. Dublin 2014 and Cork 2012 spring to mind. When everyone copied it, it became, for the most part, very poor to watch.

So a high press is the same as being defensive?

I'm from Cavan so no interest in defending Tyrone. Here's a clip of Kerry versus Cavan in 1997. https://youtu.be/w6rqD8L2H54

Why was Tyrone puke football and not Kerry? Kerry surrounded the attacking team in possession to turn it over.

[J70]

Martin McHugh: 'Ulster coaches have destroyed Gaelic football'

"I think Ulster coaches have destroyed the game. They took it to a level where it's going on in schools in Ulster and it's going on all over coaching. It's coached to get your defence right first and try to break. When teams copped on to that, they sit and allow that.

"Dublin are very good at it now and they know how to play against it. The game is definitely not as good a spectacle to watch.
"I'm an Ulster man myself and it's Ulster that did start it and are doing it. It's not attractive and it's going on at club level and everything else."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/martin-mchugh-ulster-coaches-have-destroyed-gaelic-football-857422.html

I think Martin need only look inside his own county to find the origin of ultra defensive possession based football rather than blame the whole of Ulster.

Jimmy McGuinness was the source of the type of modern gaelic football that we see quite often now. Or just cheap imitation's of it with a little bit more finesse in many instances.

Sure why stop with McGuinness. He didn't invent the blanket defense. He merely took what Tyrone did before him and developed a more extreme, organized version. Donegal used a blanket defense against a superior, but also defensive, Armagh team in the 2003 AI semi and very nearly beat them

But that's kind of beside McHugh's point anyway. Whatever its source, it has pervaded all levels of the game, especially in Ulster, and we now have to reckon with that.

Tyrone did not use a blanket defence. A blanket defence is dropping every player back. What Tyrone did was swarm around the man in possession and was aggressive tackling often high up the pitch. Tyrone All Ireland finals were cracking games with the 2008 final the best I've ever seen.

The term " blanket defense" precedes McGuinness by nearly a  decade. Tyrone may have harried players UP the field at times, but the predominant image was of surrounding players, turning the ball over and playing fast on the break. McGuinness didn't invent it from first principles. Tyrone were the inspiration. I don't know why you Tyrone boys are so sensitive about this that you have to hide behind semantics, especially as you've more recently, in turn, taken what McGuinness did and ran with that, in turn. No one is saying that 2000s Tyrone went to the extremes McGuinness did.

And on entertainment, Donegal under McGuinness played some very exciting games. Dublin 2014 and Cork 2012 spring to mind. When everyone copied it, it became, for the most part, very poor to watch.

So a high press is the same as being defensive?

I'm from Cavan so no interest in defending Tyrone. Here's a clip of Kerry versus Cavan in 1997. https://youtu.be/w6rqD8L2H54

Why was Tyrone puke football and not Kerry? Kerry surrounded the attacking team in possession to turn it over.

If you want to pretend that Harte and Tyrone (and Armagh, in terms of physicality as well) weren't something new and even revolutionary at the time, as was McGuinness later on, knock yourself out.

[mrdeeds]

Martin McHugh: 'Ulster coaches have destroyed Gaelic football'

"I think Ulster coaches have destroyed the game. They took it to a level where it's going on in schools in Ulster and it's going on all over coaching. It's coached to get your defence right first and try to break. When teams copped on to that, they sit and allow that.

"Dublin are very good at it now and they know how to play against it. The game is definitely not as good a spectacle to watch.
"I'm an Ulster man myself and it's Ulster that did start it and are doing it. It's not attractive and it's going on at club level and everything else."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/martin-mchugh-ulster-coaches-have-destroyed-gaelic-football-857422.html

I think Martin need only look inside his own county to find the origin of ultra defensive possession based football rather than blame the whole of Ulster.

Jimmy McGuinness was the source of the type of modern gaelic football that we see quite often now. Or just cheap imitation's of it with a little bit more finesse in many instances.

Sure why stop with McGuinness. He didn't invent the blanket defense. He merely took what Tyrone did before him and developed a more extreme, organized version. Donegal used a blanket defense against a superior, but also defensive, Armagh team in the 2003 AI semi and very nearly beat them

But that's kind of beside McHugh's point anyway. Whatever its source, it has pervaded all levels of the game, especially in Ulster, and we now have to reckon with that.

Tyrone did not use a blanket defence. A blanket defence is dropping every player back. What Tyrone did was swarm around the man in possession and was aggressive tackling often high up the pitch. Tyrone All Ireland finals were cracking games with the 2008 final the best I've ever seen.

The term " blanket defense" precedes McGuinness by nearly a  decade. Tyrone may have harried players UP the field at times, but the predominant image was of surrounding players, turning the ball over and playing fast on the break. McGuinness didn't invent it from first principles. Tyrone were the inspiration. I don't know why you Tyrone boys are so sensitive about this that you have to hide behind semantics, especially as you've more recently, in turn, taken what McGuinness did and ran with that, in turn. No one is saying that 2000s Tyrone went to the extremes McGuinness did.

And on entertainment, Donegal under McGuinness played some very exciting games. Dublin 2014 and Cork 2012 spring to mind. When everyone copied it, it became, for the most part, very poor to watch.

So a high press is the same as being defensive?

I'm from Cavan so no interest in defending Tyrone. Here's a clip of Kerry versus Cavan in 1997. https://youtu.be/w6rqD8L2H54

Why was Tyrone puke football and not Kerry? Kerry surrounded the attacking team in possession to turn it over.

If you want to pretend that Harte and Tyrone (and Armagh, in terms of physicality as well) weren't something new and even revolutionary at the time, as was McGuinness later on, knock yourself out.

How were Armagh revolutionary? A team that played attacking football with a crossfield kick to Jamie Clarke. Tyrone doing what Kerry done in 1997 with a bit more structure and prayers. Donegal were revolutionary for sure. How many other managers could win an All Ireland with Donegal and then become an  assistant soccer coach in China.

[trueblue1234]

Martin McHugh: 'Ulster coaches have destroyed Gaelic football'

"I think Ulster coaches have destroyed the game. They took it to a level where it's going on in schools in Ulster and it's going on all over coaching. It's coached to get your defence right first and try to break. When teams copped on to that, they sit and allow that.

"Dublin are very good at it now and they know how to play against it. The game is definitely not as good a spectacle to watch.
"I'm an Ulster man myself and it's Ulster that did start it and are doing it. It's not attractive and it's going on at club level and everything else."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/martin-mchugh-ulster-coaches-have-destroyed-gaelic-football-857422.html

I think Martin need only look inside his own county to find the origin of ultra defensive possession based football rather than blame the whole of Ulster.

Jimmy McGuinness was the source of the type of modern gaelic football that we see quite often now. Or just cheap imitation's of it with a little bit more finesse in many instances.

Sure why stop with McGuinness. He didn't invent the blanket defense. He merely took what Tyrone did before him and developed a more extreme, organized version. Donegal used a blanket defense against a superior, but also defensive, Armagh team in the 2003 AI semi and very nearly beat them

But that's kind of beside McHugh's point anyway. Whatever its source, it has pervaded all levels of the game, especially in Ulster, and we now have to reckon with that.

Tyrone did not use a blanket defence. A blanket defence is dropping every player back. What Tyrone did was swarm around the man in possession and was aggressive tackling often high up the pitch. Tyrone All Ireland finals were cracking games with the 2008 final the best I've ever seen.

The term " blanket defense" precedes McGuinness by nearly a  decade. Tyrone may have harried players UP the field at times, but the predominant image was of surrounding players, turning the ball over and playing fast on the break. McGuinness didn't invent it from first principles. Tyrone were the inspiration. I don't know why you Tyrone boys are so sensitive about this that you have to hide behind semantics, especially as you've more recently, in turn, taken what McGuinness did and ran with that, in turn. No one is saying that 2000s Tyrone went to the extremes McGuinness did.

And on entertainment, Donegal under McGuinness played some very exciting games. Dublin 2014 and Cork 2012 spring to mind. When everyone copied it, it became, for the most part, very poor to watch.

So a high press is the same as being defensive?

I'm from Cavan so no interest in defending Tyrone. Here's a clip of Kerry versus Cavan in 1997. https://youtu.be/w6rqD8L2H54

Why was Tyrone puke football and not Kerry? Kerry surrounded the attacking team in possession to turn it over.

If you want to pretend that Harte and Tyrone (and Armagh, in terms of physicality as well) weren't something new and even revolutionary at the time, as was McGuinness later on, knock yourself out.

How were Armagh revolutionary? A team that played attacking football with a crossfield kick to Jamie Clarke. Tyrone doing what Kerry done in 1997 with a bit more structure and prayers. Donegal were revolutionary for sure. How many other managers could win an All Ireland with Donegal and then become an  assistant soccer coach in China.

Ronan

[square_ball]

"I remember going out one day with Ryan [Martin's son and Donegal football star], he was presenting medals to an U10 team. There was a wee girl there and I asked her, 'Where do you play?' And she said, 'Sweeper'.

I see he stole a joke from that Conor Moore impressionist fella and passed it off as a story. I'd say a young girl playing u10 said her position is sweeper alright.

[LeoMc]

In the 60's the average total score for the All Ireland final was 24 points with an average 4 point win.
In the 70's the average total score for the All Ireland final was 34 points with an average 9 point win.
In the 80's the average total score for the All Ireland final was 28 points with an average 4 point win.
In the 90's the average total score for the All Ireland final was 28 points with an average 3 point win.
In the 00's the average total score for the All Ireland final was 31 points with an average 6 point win.
In the 10's the average total score for the All Ireland final was 31 points with an average 2 point win.

Only using the showpiece as the example as it is the one everyone remembers but we look to be scoring as much as ever with matches remaining as close as ever.

[mrdeeds]

Martin McHugh: 'Ulster coaches have destroyed Gaelic football'

"I think Ulster coaches have destroyed the game. They took it to a level where it's going on in schools in Ulster and it's going on all over coaching. It's coached to get your defence right first and try to break. When teams copped on to that, they sit and allow that.

"Dublin are very good at it now and they know how to play against it. The game is definitely not as good a spectacle to watch.
"I'm an Ulster man myself and it's Ulster that did start it and are doing it. It's not attractive and it's going on at club level and everything else."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/martin-mchugh-ulster-coaches-have-destroyed-gaelic-football-857422.html

I think Martin need only look inside his own county to find the origin of ultra defensive possession based football rather than blame the whole of Ulster.

Jimmy McGuinness was the source of the type of modern gaelic football that we see quite often now. Or just cheap imitation's of it with a little bit more finesse in many instances.

Sure why stop with McGuinness. He didn't invent the blanket defense. He merely took what Tyrone did before him and developed a more extreme, organized version. Donegal used a blanket defense against a superior, but also defensive, Armagh team in the 2003 AI semi and very nearly beat them

But that's kind of beside McHugh's point anyway. Whatever its source, it has pervaded all levels of the game, especially in Ulster, and we now have to reckon with that.

Tyrone did not use a blanket defence. A blanket defence is dropping every player back. What Tyrone did was swarm around the man in possession and was aggressive tackling often high up the pitch. Tyrone All Ireland finals were cracking games with the 2008 final the best I've ever seen.

The term " blanket defense" precedes McGuinness by nearly a  decade. Tyrone may have harried players UP the field at times, but the predominant image was of surrounding players, turning the ball over and playing fast on the break. McGuinness didn't invent it from first principles. Tyrone were the inspiration. I don't know why you Tyrone boys are so sensitive about this that you have to hide behind semantics, especially as you've more recently, in turn, taken what McGuinness did and ran with that, in turn. No one is saying that 2000s Tyrone went to the extremes McGuinness did.

And on entertainment, Donegal under McGuinness played some very exciting games. Dublin 2014 and Cork 2012 spring to mind. When everyone copied it, it became, for the most part, very poor to watch.

So a high press is the same as being defensive?

I'm from Cavan so no interest in defending Tyrone. Here's a clip of Kerry versus Cavan in 1997. https://youtu.be/w6rqD8L2H54

Why was Tyrone puke football and not Kerry? Kerry surrounded the attacking team in possession to turn it over.

If you want to pretend that Harte and Tyrone (and Armagh, in terms of physicality as well) weren't something new and even revolutionary at the time, as was McGuinness later on, knock yourself out.

How were Armagh revolutionary? A team that played attacking football with a crossfield kick to Jamie Clarke. Tyrone doing what Kerry done in 1997 with a bit more structure and prayers. Donegal were revolutionary for sure. How many other managers could win an All Ireland with Donegal and then become an  assistant soccer coach in China.

Ronan

Sorry yeah.

[trailer]

The tactics that Armagh and Tyrone employed, were first introduced by Dessie Ryan. Harass the player in possession, create turnovers high up the field, you then have less area to cover to create chances. It's rather simple when you think about it. This is totally different from today's tactic of sitting back and countering at pace.

People commenting and have no clue about what the teams were trying to do and how they went about it. They'd rather listen to Brolly et al than look for themselves and see what exactly is going on. The lack of understanding around tactics in Gaelic Football is quite embarrassing. 

[Jinxy]

"I remember going out one day with Ryan [Martin's son and Donegal football star], he was presenting medals to an U10 team. There was a wee girl there and I asked her, 'Where do you play?' And she said, 'Sweeper'.

I see he stole a joke from that Conor Moore impressionist fella and passed it off as a story. I'd say a young girl playing u10 said her position is sweeper alright.

I thought that line sounded rather Brolly-esque alright.

[five points]

The term " blanket defense" precedes McGuinness by nearly a  decade. T

Mentioned by John O'Mahony in Galway dressing-room pep talk - describing their opponents, Mick O'Dwyer's Kildare - ahead of the 1998 All Ireland Final. 

A scene immortalised in the film 'A Year 'Til Sunday.'

[Main Street]

First time he's been right about anything.

Even less accuracy than a stopped clock?

[yellowcard]

To compare Armagh and Tyrone from the 00's to Donegal's defensive system is simply choosing to rewrite history.

Armagh regularly kept at least 5 forwards up the pitch at all times. Joe Kernan had basically 2 tactics which he employed throughout his managerial reign. Drop an extra man back around half back/midfield area to create more space up front. It was the old 'third midfielder' tactic that some teams employed around that time. The gameplan then involved getting the ball out wide into the midfield area and aiming long diagonal kick passes early into the full forward line.

Tyrone played more of a running game (although they had a very good mix) but Harte's main ploy to maintain a defensive structure involved playing his wing half forwards as roving half backs but they had licence to attack and players like Dooher, Cavlan, Mellon etc often were able to kick 2/3 points a game. Brian McGuigan was a playmaker who played up the pitch in a traditional CHF role to supply Canavan, Mulligan and O'Neill inside. They played with a serious intensity and tackled ferociously all over the pitch.

So to claim that Jimmy McGuinness' Donegal side simply refined a system cooked up by Armagh and Tyrone is simply not true. McGuinness revolutionised the way coaches thought about gaelic football. The sight of a half forward line withdrawn into defence with a lone forward operating in a full forward line was previously unheard of. It was horrible to watch but at least McGuinness was an original thinker to implement the sytem and he showed that the rules enabled this sytem to be operated successfully. Plenty of other poorer coaches have simply aped and tweaked this system since then with varying degress of success. This is not a criticism of Jimmy McGuinness who obviously was a brilliantly innovative coach, but it's merely pointing out the radical transformation of the game post Donegal 2011.

The game has since become more about closing off spaces and zonal marking rather than high intensity tackling further up the pitch. Most physical contact now only takes place when an attacking side crosses over the opposition 45 metre line. As a spectacle it is not very engaging at times mostly due to the over-reliance on the handpass and this lack of physical engagement in the first 2/3rds of the pitch.