My point is that Gaa has tried to alienate other sports (Codes) that they have felt threatened by over the years, the ban etc. The comparisons above show that Rugby and Soccer never undermine each other, but Gaa always have a go! The argument is choice, without choice we lose all quality in all games! I'm sure that Damien Duffs, Roy Keanes, Ronan O'Garas or Brain O'Driscoll would not be above average at either football or Hurling. The question is do you have more pride in our National games than in our Nations achievments in all sports. Don't get me wrong i love the Gaa and it is number 1, but i also take great pride in Irish achievements in other sports that can come at a worthy cost to GAA. So don't be afraid to take that cost!
I take pride in our national teams, however i do take offence when soccer heads, plenty of whom can't stand the GAA, say they paid for half of Croke Park and have a 'right' to play there. Also there are plenty of soccer and rugby fans who havnt so much as a passing interest in GAA, many more who dismiss our national games as 'bogball' and 'sitckfighting' etc. Also plenty of soccer heads who couldnt give a damn about ronan o'gara or brian o driscoll, by the same tolken rugby types who don't care about damien duff.
It's their choice but if a GAA person dosent care about soccer they're deemed to be a bigot or feel threatened by this that and the other. The freedom to choose must also allow people to choose not be interested in something and below the national level i couldnt give a toss about either of the other sports. It does annoy me the attendtion some sports get which would seem to far outstrip the numbers turning up to watch, and the constant digs at the GAA over drink sponsorship when the other sports never get a mention, despite having much closer liks to drink companies, that's not feeling threatened that's just looking for fair treatment.
Sorry, but I just don't get this one.
How can you take pride in people who do what they do just because they're paid to do it?
Pride in Damian Duff ... Roy Keane ... Brian O'Driscoll ... why not add to that Micheal O Leary, Denis O Brien, Tony O Reilly? They meet the same criteria - Irish, successful, good at what they do, AND DOING IT BECAUSE THEY'RE PAID TO.
Now Turfsmoke that is just stupid saying you can not get pride from professionals! I do understand where you are coming from. The Premiership is amass with overprofessionals and empty seats! Sadly in todays environment, the amateur ethos is seen by the educated(?) as being foolish. Gaelic football is for the young and care free anymore. No longer are there the Dinny Allens winning AI's at 38! You really are a seen as a fool today if you are 30 something and losing overtime for your own mortgage to finance the maintenance of Croke Park. Most of the inter-county players realise this and the GPA is the nearest (so far) the player can get so far to sorting it out. Todays Gaa player is part of a huge commercial wheel that sell Jerseys, Burgers, Beer, Newspapers (Local & National), Petrol, Corporate boxes, You name it! Playing for Pride is all well and good but along the way when you are standing in Croker and you look around you at a full house who have paid €65 a seat, you have to be thinking am i being taken for a complete ride!
Sadly FtB there are people like you in todays enviroment who don't see that this is not the case in a huge majority of the playing population and who always slectively choose to focus on a minority held view to makes these points (which at county player level I do accept that some top flight individuals may share your views). But 99% of the playing population don't look at the GAA in those terms and it would be better for players who think negatively about what they get back from the GAA, to consider the fact that they are doing their bit just the same as everybody else. To cliam the GAA is simply a commercial operation is equivilent to saying the same about the catholic church is it not? Yes they both need money to run operations but it's not what they are about - no?
Turfsmoke, can you take pride in your local parish football or hurling team?
Let's say they reach a county final and the trainer is getting 80 quid a night but doing a great job - do you have pride in the team now?
"You really are a seen as a fool today if you are 30 something and losing overtime for your own mortgage to finance the maintenance of Croke Park"
Speak for yourself FTB, I have nothing but respect for these men.
"Now Turfsmoke that is just stupid saying you can not get pride from professionals! I do understand where you are coming from"
If you understand why call him stupid? ::)
"Playing for Pride is all well and good but along the way when you are standing in Croker and you look around you at a full house who have paid €65 a seat, you have to be thinking am i being taken for a complete ride!"
Yet they keep doing it because your views are different from theirs FTB.
I have more pride in the GAA players for sure, no question.
Not saying the pros dont make me proud every now and then, but no-where near the pride I feel when watching the Dubs run out in Croke park.
Quote from: Turfsmoke on December 16, 2006, 08:35:37 PM
Sorry, but I just don't get this one.
How can you take pride in people who do what they do just because they're paid to do it?
Pride in Damian Duff ... Roy Keane ... Brian O'Driscoll ... why not add to that Micheal O Leary, Denis O Brien, Tony O Reilly? They meet the same criteria - Irish, successful, good at what they do, AND DOING IT BECAUSE THEY'RE PAID TO.
Do you lose pride in these Irish men because they are getting paid for it?
The fact that Shay Given, Roy Keane have made it to the top of their proffession & made money out of, should NOT be held against them!
If the GAA went proffesional would you lose respect for Paul McGrane, Dara O'Se or Henry Shefflin???
Yes the gain more respect from us because we know them, because we see the effort they put in & commitment they display for 'their club/counties', however they should not lose it if they make money off the back of it!
Also not many games are the tickets 65 notes. the last all ireland final i was at the tickets were 60. significantly less for other games.
i do find it funny that some people simply dont comprehend doing something for the love of the game. A sad reflection of the society we live in.
"My point is that Gaa has tried to alienate other sports (Codes) that they have felt threatened by over the years, the ban etc. The comparisons above show that Rugby and Soccer never undermine each other, but Gaa always have a go!"
In fairness it was Steve Staunton having a go at the GAA last week for not letting them train in Croke park when the IRFU are preparing for the game.
To suggest the soccer crowd never have a go at the GAA is ridiculous. Steve Staunton still hasnt apologised to the GAA for this and I firmly believe he should.
This is the type of shite talk that makes people think the GAA are alienating other sports when they arent.
For Christ sake arent they giving the soccer and rugby a huge helping hand next year! When has the FAI or IRFU ever done anything like this for the GAA????
When have they done ANYTHING for the GAA.
"the ban etc" how does using THEIR stadium for THEIR sports only alienate people???
Another ridiculous point.
Recent talk by rubgy and soccer pundits re the GAA show that it is actually them who are threatened, otherwise why the ungraciousness?
This whole "about time we played in Croke park sure didnt we pay for half of it" tripe proves your original point incorrect, they never have a go at the GAA?
Bull shite.
Quotei do find it funny that some people simply dont comprehend doing something for the love of the game. A sad reflection of the society we live in.
If you were offered money for playing gaelic football, darts, tiddlywinks....would you turn it down???
There are plenty of ametuer soccer players, rugby players etc who play their sports "for the love of the game".
Proffessional sports people should not be vilified simply because they are making money out of it!
I'm not saying they should be vilified, by the same tolken, GAA players shouldnt be called fools for doing what the do for the love of the game.
QuoteWhen have they done ANYTHING for the GAA.
Could prabably list loads of examples but the Kildare Senior Football team do their winter training at Cill Dara RFC's all-weather facilities. The rugby club are even allowing them put Gaelic Posts this year :o
lads really and truly there is no harm getting pride from the professionals.
roy keane got paid yes but he was hardly in it for the money. he loved his club and gave it his all.
this is a messy aul thread it must be said.
The GAA banned other sports - manely rugby and soccer as they were the sports of choice of the british army/invaders of Ireland/killers of Irish people etc and this ban was carried on until recently as we all know.
Certainly the GAA were also protecting their own sports from attrition.
However they realise that Gaelic games are getting ever more popular and can easily fend off the competition form rugby/soccer nowadays.
I would say that the soccer and rugby fraternity always snipe away at the GAA - esp the soccer crew , but it is most prob a jealousy thing.
Even now after eradicating the bans and opening up Croke Park, we still get the vitrol from soccer people and more hidden from the rugby camp.
There will always be people who like all sports and others who dislike all but their own.
If the FAI have any hatred, it should be for the gov who helped feck up plans for their own eircom park stadium a few years back.
Players play for the love of the game, because they enjoy it and only a few play it initially to make money.
GAA players play it as they just love doing so and even though it is a vocation of tremendous sacrifice these days, they wouldnt give it up.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 18, 2006, 12:06:33 PM
QuoteWhen have they done ANYTHING for the GAA.
Could prabably list loads of examples but the Kildare Senior Football team do their winter training at Cill Dara RFC's all-weather facilities. The rugby club are even allowing them put Gaelic Posts this year :o
Fair enough I take it back, but in fairness, the GAA have done a HUGE favour to FAI & IRFU and we sill get this crap about the GAA being threatened and having a go.
If they were that threatened they certainly wouldnt be letting them into Croke Park.
No matter what the GAA do they are going to be bashed by many in the soccer and rubgy camps.
But the comments about being a fool if you are playing GAA in your 30's for no monetary gain is a disgraceful comment and should be retracted.
Spot on Dubnut! Still waiting for that massive wave of positive media reaction to hit! ::)
Quote from: dubnut on December 18, 2006, 12:13:12 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on December 18, 2006, 12:06:33 PM
QuoteWhen have they done ANYTHING for the GAA.
Could prabably list loads of examples but the Kildare Senior Football team do their winter training at Cill Dara RFC's all-weather facilities. The rugby club are even allowing them put Gaelic Posts this year :o
But the comments about being a fool if you are playing GAA in your 30's for no monetary gain is a disgraceful comment and should be retracted.
What Dinny is talking about is a bit of an isolated case - only small (inbred) communities generally get on like that.
It most def is not the case in other places like Navan, Mullingar, Enniscorthy or Edenderry (or at least wasnt up until recently when I last heard).
Irrespective of what age you are, playing Gaelic games costs you money from the day you start until the day you finish.
Expensses in -Travel, gear, medical, re-arranged holidays, paying for tickets etc etc etc not even counting the lost wages or career progression
but most play on regardless
Gaelic Games is a hobby folks, like going to the gym, boxing or golf, many GAA players pay hefty green fees per annum just to play other hobbies, if they dont like it get a different hobby or simply pay more green fees. All the GPA are about ..forget about money... is to get people to recognise that the players are the most important thing in our association. Its a yes or no issue. Are they?
In fairness there are members of the GAA who love to have a swipe at the FAI and the IRFU likewise there are members of the FAI and the IRFU would love to have a pop at the GAA. Ireland is a small country but our partcipation levels in sport are among the highest in the world therefore these 3 organisations are effectively all competing for the same players particulary in rural Ireland. Personally I don't see rugby as a threat to the GAA, it is very much the little brother, there are more GAA clubs in Cork than there are rugby clubs in the whole of Ireland. Some counties like Louth and Laois have only 2 rugby clubs and if GAA clubs in large towns like Portlaoise, Drogheda or Dundalk suffer from low numbers well then should be looking at themselves and not blaming other sporting organisations.
To be honest I believe a person should be allowed choose the sport that keeps them playing the longest if thats Hurling great if its soccer so what better the kid play something than drowning pints.
Actually I'm sick of people here whinging about the GAA, whiging about the IRFU or the FAI, we should be doing this we should be doing that, ffs the FAI and the IRFU are paying top dollar to use Croke Park, they're not getting it for free yet they should be grateful for paying for a service, you couldn't make it up.
Anyway playing any sport good, 20 year old fat bastards drinking pints in the pub bad
QuoteWhat Dinny is talking about is a bit of an isolated case
Hmm, do you think? Didn't the Longford footballers use Longford RFC as well or how about Linfield FC allowing camogie players from St Mary's Teacher Training College. In Kildare also the womens footballers have used Newbridge College, it can go on and on....
Navan is a town of over 20K people, Navan rugby club field 3 adult teams and U/20 and a youths section, hardly a threat to the Gaels now. I have absolutley no interest in junior soccer in Ireland although I have been to Dalymount Park to watch Kildare Town AFC win some final of some sort so maybe soccer is a threat in Navan although generally I find ,as has been touched on here, how getting changed at the side of a pitch with no basics such as showers can appeal to anyone is beyond me...
"they're not getting it for free yet they should be grateful for paying for a service, you couldn't make it up"
Its the fact that the GAA changed its rules to accomodate them Dinny.
It they werent grateful I would accept that, but to be openly ungrateful is another thing.
Otherwise I agree, better to play any sport than none at all.
QuoteIts the fact that the GAA changed its rules to accomodate them Dinny.
It they werent grateful I would accept that, but to be openly ungrateful is another thing.
And also to make money, agree with the whole ungrateful thing but the whole Dundalk saga shows you what a crowd of gobshites the FAI really are..
Ultimately the sport for all arguement is one which wins out, its better to play sport of any kind than drink beer in pubs. But Dinny the GAA being an idealistic sort put more emphasis on why you play the sport. ie is the shamrock rovers centre half forward who get paid to pull on his jersey any way as important as Brian Mc Guigan who does not. My opinion is only for the money he'd probably be a fat 20 year old drinking pints, its dismissive of the efforts of the £150 a week sportsman but I dont care for his idealogy anyway. Id have more respect for an amateur soccor player than a quasi professinal part timer.
Realistically all codes of Rugby, Soccer and Gaelic Games are amateur. Ok you say soccer is professional but out of the 400K registered players in Ireland how many get paid? 300? hardly registers as a percentage of a percentage! Rugby is the same really! I have more than a Liking for both Soccer and Gaelic Football and am one of the (very) few involved in Both. I see as narrow minded anyone who trys to belittle the other (and as you know there are whores on both sides). Growing up Liam Brady and Jack O'Shea were my heros and to me both played football. I apologise if it was taken offensively as to me refering to players as fools for putting in the hard grind for nothing. As a volunteer and Club person this is the quip i hear everyday at my level. it is not what i think myself, but it is what the people outside the circle of running a club think. Anyone involved in running a club today will tell you how hard it is in the summer to get young lads age 16-20 to tog out for games because they all have jobs and need to keep up the payments on the souped up car. Lads not so long did not have this opportunity so the choice was easier! And as guys get older now the keeping up with the jones kicks in. Personally i think, the Gaa are presently reaching a saturation point with over use of players, McKenna Cup, Railway Cups, Compromise rules, Sigerson, u-21 Club and county, All-Ireland Club. It is just a pull on the same pool of players and if you are 20 and a decent player you are involved in 80% of these competitions. Also money is being pumped into venues that see very little use! McHale park in Castlebar is being revamped, but see only about 3-4 intercounty games a year. Time to take stock, reduce competitions. Go for quality rather than quantity. Have less intercounty and Club games in the summer and have both played in the summer, not November. If we are not going to pay our players have a limit on our abuse of them and let them grow old in the game!
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 18, 2006, 04:46:34 PM
Anyone involved in running a club today will tell you how hard it is in the summer to get young lads age 16-20 to tog out for games because they all have jobs and need to keep up the payments on the souped up car.
the problem has been how people coached and turned off the youth
if you make it more fun again, they will turn up and play/train etc
Dinny - still not a lot of co-operation throughout the country between codes
I expect this will change though between GAA and rugby - with the change in GAA legislation
However soffer and the FAI still have a mental block to clear up first and their house to sort out before they can become part of an all inclusive sporting movement
fully agree - all ages should be playing some kind of sport if at all possible, it doesnt really matter which code.
My family played all (badly) and enjoyed them too...
"As a volunteer and Club person this is the quip i hear everyday at my level. it is not what i think myself, but it is what the people outside the circle of running a club think"
Everyday? I very much doubt it, in fact I believe it IS your opinion but you say you hear it all the time to enhance your argument.
I have certainly never once heard someone call an intercounty player a fool for playing without pay. never once.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 18, 2006, 12:11:10 PM
The GAA banned other sports - manely rugby and soccer as they were the sports of choice of the british army/invaders of Ireland/killers of Irish people etc
seriously? i hope that's a wind up.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 18, 2006, 12:11:10 PM
However they realise that Gaelic games are getting ever more popular and can easily fend off the competition form rugby/soccer nowadays.
I would say that the soccer and rugby fraternity always snipe away at the GAA - esp the soccer crew , but it is most prob a jealousy thing.
Even now after eradicating the bans and opening up Croke Park, we still get the vitrol from soccer people and more hidden from the rugby camp.
There will always be people who like all sports and others who dislike all but their own.
If the FAI have any hatred, it should be for the gov who helped feck up plans for their own eircom park stadium a few years back.
the soccer heads are quite clearly angry about the Tallaght situation. thats what this current upsurge in hostilities is about, they percieve we want it all and are trying to interfere in their funding after getting a healthy wedge in the past few years. we had to expect some form of reaction. put another way, Rathcoole is public land handed to the GAA. if the local soccer club sued the dept to force the GAA to share, what would our reaction be?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 18, 2006, 12:11:10 PMPlayers play for the love of the game, because they enjoy it and only a few play it initially to make money.
GAA players play it as they just love doing so and even though it is a vocation of tremendous sacrifice these days, they wouldnt give it up.
99.99% of soccer, rugby, golf, athletics etc players in ireland never earn a penny and it costs them to play too. why is their love for their game less than ours?
Quote from: tayto on December 18, 2006, 08:16:12 PM
Once again a soccer fan dosent understand what paying for something entails. hilarious.
that is a highly ironic statement in the context of a discussion about TD trying to get into Tallaght.
Quote from: dublinfella on December 18, 2006, 07:02:09 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 18, 2006, 12:11:10 PM
The GAA banned other sports - manely rugby and soccer as they were the sports of choice of the british army/invaders of Ireland/killers of Irish people etc
seriously? i hope that's a wind up.
There will always be people who like all sports and others who dislike all but their own.
If the FAI have any hatred, it should be for the gov who helped feck up plans for their own eircom park stadium a few years back.
the soccer heads are quite clearly angry about the Tallaght situation. thats what this current upsurge in hostilities is about, they percieve we want it all and are trying to interfere in their funding after getting a healthy wedge in the past few years. we had to expect some form of reaction. put another way, Rathcoole is public land handed to the GAA. if the local soccer club sued the dept to force the GAA to share, what would our reaction be?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 18, 2006, 12:11:10 PMPlayers play for the love of the game, because they enjoy it and only a few play it initially to make money.
GAA players play it as they just love doing so and even though it is a vocation of tremendous sacrifice these days, they wouldnt give it up.
99.99% of soccer, rugby, golf, athletics etc players in ireland never earn a penny and it costs them to play too. why is their love for their game less than ours?
Quote
no wind up, when those sports were introduced here- who introduced them?
The perception gave rise to the ban - its not my opinion but a historic old Irish view of those sports in Ireland.
oh the good old percieved 'wedge' that the GAA have got
no comment on 'eircom park ?
its the usual rubbish eminating from the tallafornian soccer scobies !
Quote from: dublinfella on December 18, 2006, 09:45:04 PM
Quote from: tayto on December 18, 2006, 08:16:12 PM
Once again a soccer fan dosent understand what paying for something entails. hilarious.
that is a highly ironic statement in the context of a discussion about TD trying to get into Tallaght.
no, no it isnt. in fact you're just proving my point by failing to grasp the difference between free and paying for something, but we'll keep it to the one thread.
Quote from: tayto on December 19, 2006, 09:25:25 AM
Quote from: dublinfella on December 18, 2006, 09:45:04 PM
Quote from: tayto on December 18, 2006, 08:16:12 PM
Once again a soccer fan dosent understand what paying for something entails. hilarious.
that is a highly ironic statement in the context of a discussion about TD trying to get into Tallaght.
no, no it isnt. in fact you're just proving my point by failing to grasp the difference between free and paying for something, but we'll keep it to the one thread.
am i a 'soccer fan' now?
TD are trying to get free use of a stadium. you support this while abusing soccer clubs for 'not paying for' things.
its acceptible if a GAA club gets a great deal but not other sports? make up your mind.