Hurling 2024

[Milltown Row2]

A priest from Cork I think introduced hurling to Antrim and Down. That needs a reboot.

Are you sure about that?!

Christian brothers in schools were big drivers back in the day but hurling has been around a long long time, but he needs to talk crap so it's ok

[seafoid]

Hurling had too be reintroduced . I can't remember where I read about the Cork connection.

https://www.historyireland.com/the-geography-of-hurling-11-2/

By the mid nineteenth century, hurling had declined so steeply that it survived only in three pockets, around Cork city, in south-east Galway and in the area north of Wexford town.

[Upandover]

What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?

Genuine question.

Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?

Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.

[Milltown Row2]

What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?

Genuine question.

Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?

Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.

A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...

Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too

I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..

As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.

[burdizzo]

What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?

Genuine question.

Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?

Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.

A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...

Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too

I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..

As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.

I think the expectations are lower in these counties, too. When Laois beat Dublin to get to the all-Ireland quarter final a couple of years ago, everyone thought they'd kick on, get lads back - but instead, lads dropped away, as if they reckoned it was as far as they could go. Also - and just talking about Laois here - there's no one around who realistically EXPECTS they can win, say, a Leinster title, because there's no one (or very few, at least) who've seen it done. Offaly, on the other hand, I think do have serious ambitions to be 'back up there', and that's in no small part due to the fact there's plenty around who've seen it done, know what it takes, and fully expect that it CAN be done. And I think they probably will overtake Laois, Antrim, Westmeath pretty soon.

I also think that in the counties mentioned, hurling very much plays second fiddle to football. Sadly.

[Milltown Row2]

What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?

Genuine question.

Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?

Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.

A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...

Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too

I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..

As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.

I think the expectations are lower in these counties, too. When Laois beat Dublin to get to the all-Ireland quarter final a couple of years ago, everyone thought they'd kick on, get lads back - but instead, lads dropped away, as if they reckoned it was as far as they could go. Also - and just talking about Laois here - there's no one around who realistically EXPECTS they can win, say, a Leinster title, because there's no one (or very few, at least) who've seen it done. Offaly, on the other hand, I think do have serious ambitions to be 'back up there', and that's in no small part due to the fact there's plenty around who've seen it done, know what it takes, and fully expect that it CAN be done. And I think they probably will overtake Laois, Antrim, Westmeath pretty soon.

I also think that in the counties mentioned, hurling very much plays second fiddle to football. Sadly.

Its a strange one because football in Antrim we are at best a div 3 team but mainly div 4 for so many years, WE got to one Ulster final in over 50 years but its still a big deal here with me club teams that hurling.. I can't work that out other than its an easier sport to play 

[johnnycool]

What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?

Genuine question.

Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?

Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.

A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...

Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too

I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..

As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.

I think the expectations are lower in these counties, too. When Laois beat Dublin to get to the all-Ireland quarter final a couple of years ago, everyone thought they'd kick on, get lads back - but instead, lads dropped away, as if they reckoned it was as far as they could go. Also - and just talking about Laois here - there's no one around who realistically EXPECTS they can win, say, a Leinster title, because there's no one (or very few, at least) who've seen it done. Offaly, on the other hand, I think do have serious ambitions to be 'back up there', and that's in no small part due to the fact there's plenty around who've seen it done, know what it takes, and fully expect that it CAN be done. And I think they probably will overtake Laois, Antrim, Westmeath pretty soon.

I also think that in the counties mentioned, hurling very much plays second fiddle to football. Sadly.

Down U17 hurlers were in Tipp last weekend for a few challenge games vrs Tipp minors in Thurles.

Got the usual tanking as expected but was talking to one of their coaches and he said whilst there was a noticeable difference in standard the Down lads were getting to the pitch of the game much better in the second half.
Regular exposure to that standard of hurling at an early age is crucial and to build from it. We don't do that often enough and whilst the logistics aren't great (the lads from the Ards were away from 6am) it's essential to actually develop beyond our current level.

Tipp have 60 odd clubs to pick from, Cork 100 plus, Kilkenny 40 or there abouts, Down 6 or so contribute to that team so there needs to be a bit of reality within your expectations but that doesn't excuse not trying.

[seafoid]

I was looking at a map of the hurling areas in the country .
What really stands out is the small geographical areas covered by Antrim and Down hurling.

[clonadmad]

Playing Population for starters and proximity to high quality opposition

Indeed, Limerick (9,980) has the sixth largest hurling playing population in Ireland currently, behind Cork (25,600), Tipperary (14,260), Dublin (13,980), Galway (12,520), and Kilkenny (10,080).

If we are to consider Map 2 a measurement of hurling density, such an indicator might better reflect the health of the game rather than its overall popularity. Unsurprisingly, only Dublin (15.33/km2) contains at least one starting team worth of hurlers per square kilometre. The next most densely populated counties in terms of hurlers are Waterford (5.27/km2), and Kilkenny (4.89 km2). More pressing a concern, arguably, is that 13 counties of Ireland have less than one hurler per square kilometre, from Down (0.83/km2) in the northeast to Kerry(0.58/km2) in the southwest and back to Donegal (0.40/km2) in the northwest.

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2022/0322/1287753-hurling-census-2022-population-hurlers-density/#:~:text=Indeed%2C%20Limerick%20(9%2C980)%20has,%2C%20and%20Kilkenny%20(10%2C080).

[clonadmad]

In the Weaker counties

You just dont have enough players putting in the Hurling hours needed to excel at the game.

[Armagh18]

In the Weaker counties

You just dont have enough players putting in the Hurling hours needed to excel at the game.

Yeah I know a couple of lads from Armagh who are unbelievably talented hurlers- maybe if they were from Kilkenny and were playing at a high standard from an early age they'd be as good as those lads. Thankless task trying to develop hurling teams in a lot of counties. 

[burdizzo]

Its a strange one because football in Antrim we are at best a div 3 team but mainly div 4 for so many years, WE got to one Ulster final in over 50 years but its still a big deal here with me club teams that hurling.. I can't work that out other than its an easier sport to play 

Much the same here in Laois - we're currently division 4 in football and Division 1 in hurling, but the county board is still very skewed towards football. And that's despite the fact that the hurling county finals bring in bigger attendances. In terms of clubs/ playing numbers, it's probably about 60 football:40 hurling. Part of it might be that football's more widely played nationally, and there's always a chance- if you get fit enough and are determined enough - that you can make strides. With hurling, it's more like baby steps up intercounty the pecking order.

[shark]

Its a strange one because football in Antrim we are at best a div 3 team but mainly div 4 for so many years, WE got to one Ulster final in over 50 years but its still a big deal here with me club teams that hurling.. I can't work that out other than its an easier sport to play 

Much the same here in Laois - we're currently division 4 in football and Division 1 in hurling, but the county board is still very skewed towards football. And that's despite the fact that the hurling county finals bring in bigger attendances. In terms of clubs/ playing numbers, it's probably about 60 football:40 hurling. Part of it might be that football's more widely played nationally, and there's always a chance- if you get fit enough and are determined enough - that you can make strides. With hurling, it's more like baby steps up intercounty the pecking order.

Similar dynamic in Westmeath. These counties have much much smaller populations than the top hurling counties (Kilkenny excepted). And unlike Kilkenny are splitting their resources across two games. Westmeath is a genuine duel county - in that it actually has duel players. Almost every member of the county hurling panel plays club football , and most at senior level. This is not the case in Galway for example, where it is effectively two different counties from a GAA perspective.
Bottom line is, player numbers are not there. And there are not (and realistically never will be) the resources to change that dramatically. It's a numbers game ; population and money.

[seafoid]

What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?

Genuine question.

Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?

Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.

A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...

Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too

I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..

As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.

I think the expectations are lower in these counties, too. When Laois beat Dublin to get to the all-Ireland quarter final a couple of years ago, everyone thought they'd kick on, get lads back - but instead, lads dropped away, as if they reckoned it was as far as they could go. Also - and just talking about Laois here - there's no one around who realistically EXPECTS they can win, say, a Leinster title, because there's no one (or very few, at least) who've seen it done. Offaly, on the other hand, I think do have serious ambitions to be 'back up there', and that's in no small part due to the fact there's plenty around who've seen it done, know what it takes, and fully expect that it CAN be done. And I think they probably will overtake Laois, Antrim, Westmeath pretty soon.

I also think that in the counties mentioned, hurling very much plays second fiddle to football. Sadly.

Offaly have won all Irelands in recent memory. That is priceless.
It's a real pity that the momentum generated by Eddie Brennan in Laois just petered out.

[imtommygunn]

Its a strange one because football in Antrim we are at best a div 3 team but mainly div 4 for so many years, WE got to one Ulster final in over 50 years but its still a big deal here with me club teams that hurling.. I can't work that out other than its an easier sport to play 

Much the same here in Laois - we're currently division 4 in football and Division 1 in hurling, but the county board is still very skewed towards football. And that's despite the fact that the hurling county finals bring in bigger attendances. In terms of clubs/ playing numbers, it's probably about 60 football:40 hurling. Part of it might be that football's more widely played nationally, and there's always a chance- if you get fit enough and are determined enough - that you can make strides. With hurling, it's more like baby steps up intercounty the pecking order.

The difference between levels in hurling is massive. I always felt with Antrim that the players have to put in huge huge efforts to get to the top level and when they get there it becomes very hard to sustain especially when they are taking big beatings. It kind of feels like Laois, Westmeath and Carlow to name but a few always have the same problem too.

You could probably do a pHd on it tbh. Geography, numbers, desire - the list is endless. The desire is not always a fair comment tbh because say glens of antrim people live and breathe hurling and I am sure in many of these other counties of similar ilk it is the same. The desire maybe is more there at club than county sometimes. Tbh it very much feels like peaks and troughs. Darren Gleeson has done a great job with us and I can't help but feel that there may be a trough when he moves on but I hope I am wrong!