Ulster LGFA shambles..tonights game forfeited by Derry's Steelestown

[Itchy]

So Steelstown were informed in advance that the 3G pitch was the back-up venue? But obviously didn't think to pack boots for that eventuality?

Harsh. No competitive game should be played on a 3G pitch anyway.

I think there's no question the timing of fixtures was very unfair. Not playing competitive games on 3g, not sure about that. This year all fbd league games in Connacht were played in the Dome on Astro for example.

Ever play on it? Hateful surface to be on imo.

Depends if you're a fast corner forward or a slow corner back.

True! Sore on the joints in my experience anyway!

They are but most of latest have a new impact underlay that eases the impact injuries.

[LeoMc]

So Steelstown were informed in advance that the 3G pitch was the back-up venue? But obviously didn't think to pack boots for that eventuality?

Harsh. No competitive game should be played on a 3G pitch anyway.

Were they informed? If so, were they told they wouldn't be able to wear studs?

Were they informed before they set out?

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

So Steelstown were informed in advance that the 3G pitch was the back-up venue? But obviously didn't think to pack boots for that eventuality?

Harsh. No competitive game should be played on a 3G pitch anyway.

I think there's no question the timing of fixtures was very unfair. Not playing competitive games on 3g, not sure about that. This year all fbd league games in Connacht were played in the Dome on Astro for example.

Ever play on it? Hateful surface to be on imo.

Depends if you're a fast corner forward or a slow corner back.

True! Sore on the joints in my experience anyway!

They are but most of latest have a new impact underlay that eases the impact injuries.

Aye they are called 4G

[Itchy]

ULSTER LGFA STATEMENT – 4th NOVEMBER, 2022

The Ulster LGFA Council wishes to make the following statement regarding the Ulster Ladies Intermediate Club Championship – and outline the below timeline of events in relation to same.

Sunday 23rd October Ulster Ladies Intermediate Quarter-Final between Steelstown & Aodh Ruadh postponed due to waterlogged pitch.

Monday 24th October The Ulster Fixtures Secretary contacted all Intermediate clubs to see if they wanted the Final to remain on Sunday 6th November. All five clubs still in the competition confirmed that they wished for the final to remain on 6th November due to the logistics involved with the All-Ireland Quarter-Final. The Ulster Ladies Fixtures Committee met on the evening of Monday 24th and drafted a proposal to be brought to an Emergency Ulster Council meeting on Tuesday 25th October. 

Note: The winning Ulster Intermediate Champions must travel to either Edinburgh or London to play in the All-Ireland Quarter-Final on Saturday 19th November. If the final was pushed back to Sunday 13th November, it would result in limited time to book accommodation and make the necessary travel arrangements.

Tuesday 25th October Emergency Ulster Council meeting for rescheduling Ulster Intermediate Championship. Ulster Fixtures Committee proposal was to reschedule Quarter-Final for Saturday 29th October, Semi-Final in Cavan on Wednesday 2nd November and Final on Sunday 6th November.

Derry Vice-Chairperson, who is a member of Steelstown management, spoke on behalf of Steelstown and requested for the Quarter-Final to be played on Sunday 30th October rather than Saturday 29th October.

A counter proposal was then put in for the games to be played on Sunday 30th October, Semi-Final on Wednesday 2nd November in Cavan and Final on Sunday 6th November. There were no further counter proposals to these dates. This was voted on and had a majority, including a vote in favour from the Derry Vice-Chairperson. Following the meeting, the dates were e-mailed out to all clubs by the Ulster Fixtures Secretary.

No further correspondence was received on Fixtures until the evening of Sunday 30th October, from Steelstown. 

In response to this correspondence, an Ulster LGFA Executive meeting regarding Intermediate fixtures was held on Tuesday 1st November 2022 to discuss the Ulster Intermediate club championship, at which representatives from the three remaining clubs, namely Derrygonnelly, Steelstown and Castlerahan/Denn were present.

After measured deliberation and input from all parties, it was decided and voted upon that fixtures for the Ulster Intermediate club championship would proceed as agreed at the full Ulster LGFA Council Emergency meeting on Tuesday 25th October 2022.

At the Ulster Executive meeting on Tuesday 1st November 2022 the Ulster Fixtures Secretary provided clear and definitive information on the arrangements for the Semi Final fixture between Castlerahan/Denn and Steelstown to take place on Wednesday 2nd November 2022.

This plan was communicated as follows:

1. A pitch inspection would be held at Templeport GAC on Wednesday 2nd November, as early as possible, bearing in mind the poor weather forecast for the day.

2. In the likelihood of inclement weather, and the need for a change of venue, a back-up pitch had been secured. This was clearly communicated as the 3G pitch at Kingspan Breffni on several occasions.

A pitch inspection took place at Templeport GAC at 10.00am, and again at 3.00pm, when it was deemed that the pitch was unplayable at that point.

At 3.24pm the Ulster Ladies Fixtures Secretary contacted both clubs by email to relay this information and initiate the back-up plan.

At 3.50pm, the Steelstown Secretary emailed the Ulster Ladies Fixtures Secretary to request a change of time to 8.00pm for the game, that the players had already left, and they weren't aware that the back-up venue was a 3G pitch. This is in direct contradiction to the information which had been relayed to all parties at the meeting on Tuesday 1st November. The request for an 8.00pm start time was sent to Castlerahan/Denn for agreement, and the match officials subsequently informed.

At 4.23pm, the Ulster Fixtures Secretary received a phone call from the Steelstown Chairperson, who advised that the club's players would not be playing on the 3G pitch as they were not made aware of it in advance, and all had left with boots for a grass pitch. He stated that Ulster LGFA needed to supply a grass pitch for the fixture or there would be no game. The Ulster Fixtures Secretary reiterated the agreed upon back-up plan from the meeting held on 1st November and that the game would go ahead at 8.00pm as planned.

At 5.14pm the Secretary of Steelstown emailed the Ulster Fixtures Secretary to say that they were no longer continuing their journey.

At 6.47pm, the Ulster Ladies Fixtures Secretary sent an e-mail to the Steelstown Secretary asking for confirmation that Steelstown were not fulfilling the fixture on Wednesday 2nd November 2022. This correspondence was not replied to.

At 7.37pm, the Steelstown Chairperson sent an e-mail stating that the club never received information regarding the playing surface communicated to them in writing.

Ulster LGFA refers to rule 303 of the Official Guide: 'Where a Club or County has delegates at a fixtures meeting, such Club or County shall be deemed to have received official notification of decisions made.'

Consequently, a vote was taken at an Emergency Ulster LGFA Council meeting last night, 3rd November, to award the fixture to Castlerahan/Denn. Delegates voted unanimously in favour of this proposal.

Ulster LGFA will be making no further comment at this time.

Ends

[Taylor]

Looks like things are not as clear cut as it seems.

If at the meeting all clubs agreed to the dates and were also told of the back up pitch in case of the weather then the issue firmly lies with the club.

One would assume there are minutes taken of that meeting?

[thewobbler]

My gut instinct is that Ulster LGFA's version of events is true, and that Steelstown for whatever reason(s), decided to pull the plug that afternoon and slam Ulster from every angle possible on social media, in an attempt to get the fixture rerouted to a time more suited to their players.

I could be no closer than a lighthouse in this assessment. It's just instinct. Administrators can be difficult people. Administrators can make mistakes. But team managers tend to be impulsive and ready with excuses.

[yellowcard]

Unless Steelstown can refute the timeline then it would appear that they are not without fault then in accepting the 3 matches in a week proposal first of all, and then the fact that they received notification that the back up involved a 3G surface. Perhaps it could be down to poor communication between club officials or they simply reviewed their situation after qualifying for the semi final and for whatever reason tried to delay the competition.

However the biggest question arising is why did Ulster LGFA begin the provincial competition so late given the tightness of the match scheduling. They gave themselves no margin for error with fixture scheduling to begin with and that is entirely on them. They should have provided for a 2 week gap between matches to begin with.

[WeeDonns]

While it was ridiculous for the ulster council to agree the 3 games in a week scenario, it's hard to argue it when not only did you have a club person as the County Rep voting on it, but they were also a member of the management team!
It seems the real c**k up here lies with the "Derry Vice-Chairperson, who is a member of Steelstown management"

Did he/she not inform their team of the backup scenario? or did everyone in the management team fail to say "by the way girls, that means you can't wear steel studs if we end up playing on the back pitch"

Picking up the standard Derry City "we're so hard done by" vibe from all of this

[yellowcard]

Unless Steelstown can refute the timeline then it would appear that they are not without fault then in accepting the 3 matches in a week proposal first of all, and then the fact that they received notification that the back up involved a 3G surface. Perhaps it could be down to poor communication between club officials or they simply reviewed their situation after qualifying for the semi final and for whatever reason tried to delay the competition.

However the biggest question arising is why did Ulster LGFA begin the provincial competition so late given the tightness of the match scheduling. They gave themselves no margin for error with fixture scheduling to begin with and that is entirely on them. They should have provided for a 2 week gap between matches to begin with.

If the Ulster LGFA statement is to be taken as gospel, then in those circumstances Steelstown don't really have have much room for maneuver in claiming that they've not been at fault - the only issue there that I have is that by notifying the change of venue by email. To me email should never be relied upon for sending urgent or semi-urgent information - I can understand doing so for a "paper trail" to be left, but an official phone-call should be made in those circumstances where practical IMO in addition to email.

As for the competition dates, the provincial club championships has always been run off quite quickly in the autumn for as long as I can remember - the LGFA Master Fixtures Plan set windows for them, Leinster & Ulster usually require four weekends whereas Munster & Connacht just need three. This lets counties plan accordingly for their own club championship dates prior to this. In hindsight, it would not have been a bad idea to have left a fortnight's gap in Ulster competitions between either the quarter & semis or the semis & final to allow for unforeseen delays in the competitions.

I would agree with you in relation to making a phonecall on the day of the match to speak verbally with Steelstown in addition to the email.

But given the weather and the history of finding pitches at short notice, the competition should most definitely have had 2 week gaps between rounds. They didn't need the benefit of hindsight to figure that out the schedule was too tight.

Its a mess and ultimately you would feel sympathy for the Steelstown players the most. They are the biggest losers in all of this for something that was not of their own doing. A chance at provincial success does not come around too often for most sides not to mention the time and energy they would have invested in it.   

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

While it was ridiculous for the ulster council to agree the 3 games in a week scenario, it's hard to argue it when not only did you have a club person as the County Rep voting on it, but they were also a member of the management team!
It seems the real c**k up here lies with the "Derry Vice-Chairperson, who is a member of Steelstown management"

Did he/she not inform their team of the backup scenario? or did everyone in the management team fail to say "by the way girls, that means you can't wear steel studs if we end up playing on the back pitch"

Picking up the standard Derry City "we're so hard done by" vibe from all of this

Oh aye- give us some more examples there mucker. Was it the civil rights campaign or something else

[Truth hurts]

My gut instinct is that Ulster LGFA's version of events is true, and that Steelstown for whatever reason(s), decided to pull the plug that afternoon and slam Ulster from every angle possible on social media, in an attempt to get the fixture rerouted to a time more suited to their players.

I could be no closer than a lighthouse in this assessment. It's just instinct. Administrators can be difficult people. Administrators can make mistakes. But team managers tend to be impulsive and ready with excuses.

I think Steelstown are chancing were chancing their arm to get more time. Ulster ladies seem to be very clear with their timeline. I think the Derry vice- chairperson has truly fecked up here.

[trailer]

ooohhhh!

[yellowcard]

My gut instinct is that Ulster LGFA's version of events is true, and that Steelstown for whatever reason(s), decided to pull the plug that afternoon and slam Ulster from every angle possible on social media, in an attempt to get the fixture rerouted to a time more suited to their players.

I could be no closer than a lighthouse in this assessment. It's just instinct. Administrators can be difficult people. Administrators can make mistakes. But team managers tend to be impulsive and ready with excuses.

I think Steelstown are chancing were chancing their arm to get more time. Ulster ladies seem to be very clear with their timeline. I think the Derry vice- chairperson has truly fecked up here.

In terms of the vote on playing 3 games in a week to finish the competition out, most management teams would not want to be seen to be thinking a round ahead of themselves. They wouldn't want to be seen to be presumptuous about winning and I doubt very much if they gave the decision a great deal of thought or had even asked their players around availability for a midweek cross country trek prior to winning their first round match. I can imagine that this was only spoken about immediately after winning the quarter final. 

There is something not right about asking a team to begin travelling around 3pm on a Wednesday in the depth of winter for an Ulster semi final. So for me the biggest issue arising here still rests entirely around the failure with the original tight fixture scheduling.   

[yellowcard]

But given the weather and the history of finding pitches at short notice, the competition should most definitely have had 2 week gaps between rounds. They didn't need the benefit of hindsight to figure that out the schedule was too tight.

For that to work in Ulster you'd need to spread the competition over seven weeks (for for senior, as there's no Derry rep currently in that competition), remembering that the provincial winners near enough go straight into the All-Ireland series too. They don't have a huge amount of time to work with without forcing county boards to get their own championships completed early too. Some do, but some others leave it until later like Tyrone (which itself was run on a week by round basis).

The mens competition is being run off within 5 weeks and they do not have anywhere near the same issue around sourcing pitches, so LGFA should be allowing at least 5 and most probably 6 weeks to play their competition.

Given the introduction of the split season and the fact that the county stuff finished up at the start of July, if the county boards can't run off their respective championships within 3 months then that is entirely on those individual county boards.   

[thewobbler]

My gut instinct is that Ulster LGFA's version of events is true, and that Steelstown for whatever reason(s), decided to pull the plug that afternoon and slam Ulster from every angle possible on social media, in an attempt to get the fixture rerouted to a time more suited to their players.

I could be no closer than a lighthouse in this assessment. It's just instinct. Administrators can be difficult people. Administrators can make mistakes. But team managers tend to be impulsive and ready with excuses.

I think Steelstown are chancing were chancing their arm to get more time. Ulster ladies seem to be very clear with their timeline. I think the Derry vice- chairperson has truly fecked up here.

In terms of the vote on playing 3 games in a week to finish the competition out, most management teams would not want to be seen to be thinking a round ahead of themselves. They wouldn't want to be seen to be presumptuous about winning and I doubt very much if they gave the decision a great deal of thought or had even asked their players around availability for a midweek cross country trek prior to winning their first round match. I can imagine that this was only spoken about immediately after winning the quarter final. 

There is something not right about asking a team to begin travelling around 3pm on a Wednesday in the depth of winter for an Ulster semi final. So for me the biggest issue arising here still rests entirely around the failure with the original tight fixture scheduling.

There's some validity in what you're saying, no doubt.

But (as well as it not being the depths of winter), what you're suggesting is that when clubs agree to rules, they should have the right to appeal for change, at whatever stage they actually get around to understanding the implications. Honestly, I can't have that.