The NI legacy Bill has passed the final legislative stage in Westminster thanks to the Tory majority. The Bill proposes an effective offer of immunity from prosecution for perpetrators of crimes during the Troubles who co-operate with a truth-recovery body. It would also halt future civil cases and inquests linked to killings during the conflict.
It is even opposed by the DUP.
Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 08:18:55 AM
The NI legacy Bill has passed the final legislative stage in Westminster thanks to the Tory majority. The Bill proposes an effective offer of immunity from prosecution for perpetrators of crimes during the Troubles who co-operate with a truth-recovery body. It would also halt future civil cases and inquests linked to killings during the conflict.
It is even opposed by the DUP.
A terrible day for victims and campaigners.
Love the hypocrisy of both SF and the DUP who now condemn this legislation even though they tried to slip such a deal through in 2005 only for the SDLP's Mark Durkan to blow its cover. Wheeling out John Finucane was "chef's kiss"
However there will be no justice for victims from either side anyway, the British government isn't going to come clean and tell all that they know and certainly the IRA won't. Victims get bogged down in endless court cases looking for answers. The age profile means many victims and campaigners are already dead and in a few years all will be gone. Surely some of the next generation will try to get answers but people will move on. We can already see this in how many of todays youth who weren't even born in the troubles now view the IRA, RUC, UDA/UVF etc.
SF: "Release the POWs! The war is over!"
Also SF: "Hey now, when are we going to get some justice for the victims here?"
Forget political parties and their contradictions.
You either think victims relatives have a right to justice or you don't.
Quote from: general_lee on September 07, 2023, 05:59:07 PM
Forget political parties and their contradictions.
You either think victims relatives have a right to justice or you don't.
Where does it stop though? Over 3000 deaths not sure of the break down but how many were convicted and are we looking justice for all those that didn't go through the courts or that in this dirty stinking war all sides used dirty underhand tactics to murder people?
There were no ok murders and not one murder in those years has actually brought us any further, as we are still attached to the UK and with SF now in cahoots with the government for 25 years we will actually just get a UI because of a head count!!
Was it worth it and dragging up the past all the time will that solve anything? A truth commission would have been the best way forward
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 07, 2023, 06:29:20 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 07, 2023, 05:59:07 PM
Forget political parties and their contradictions.
You either think victims relatives have a right to justice or you don't.
Where does it stop though? Over 3000 deaths not sure of the break down but how many were convicted and are we looking justice for all those that didn't go through the courts or that in this dirty stinking war all sides used dirty underhand tactics to murder people?
There were no ok murders and not one murder in those years has actually brought us any further, as we are still attached to the UK and with SF now in cahoots with the government for 25 years we will actually just get a UI because of a head count!!
Was it worth it and dragging up the past all the time will that solve anything? A truth commission would have been the best way forward
Agree fully.
I would imagine the legal professional will also be very disappointed, a big income stream in fees now no longer.
nolan probably be boring people to death talking about this every day for next year same as crawley
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 07, 2023, 06:29:20 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 07, 2023, 05:59:07 PM
Forget political parties and their contradictions.
You either think victims relatives have a right to justice or you don't.
Where does it stop though? Over 3000 deaths not sure of the break down but how many were convicted and are we looking justice for all those that didn't go through the courts or that in this dirty stinking war all sides used dirty underhand tactics to murder people?
There were no ok murders and not one murder in those years has actually brought us any further, as we are still attached to the UK and with SF now in cahoots with the government for 25 years we will actually just get a UI because of a head count!!
Was it worth it and dragging up the past all the time will that solve anything? A truth commission would have been the best way forward
The truth from the Brits? Some chance of that! It isn't dragging up the past, it is
the present for many communities and families.
The problem is so many previously investigated deaths were so badly done, or men getting off, that 30+ yrs later it's hard to imagine how a soldier shooting a lad in the bck for just running away gets off with it, or how the f**k the Shankill butchers run round so long and not got, or Jean Mc Conville disappearance and murder never got the justice they required. Too many people, especially on here, are not old enough to remember the shit that went on, and it shows in voting patterns.
Quote from: restorepride on September 07, 2023, 10:54:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 07, 2023, 06:29:20 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 07, 2023, 05:59:07 PM
Forget political parties and their contradictions.
You either think victims relatives have a right to justice or you don't.
Where does it stop though? Over 3000 deaths not sure of the break down but how many were convicted and are we looking justice for all those that didn't go through the courts or that in this dirty stinking war all sides used dirty underhand tactics to murder people?
There were no ok murders and not one murder in those years has actually brought us any further, as we are still attached to the UK and with SF now in cahoots with the government for 25 years we will actually just get a UI because of a head count!!
Was it worth it and dragging up the past all the time will that solve anything? A truth commission would have been the best way forward
The truth from the Brits? Some chance of that! It isn't dragging up the past, it is the present for many communities and families.
People still waiting on the truth for the disappeared
The whole point of the legacy bill is so that the Brits don't have to tell the truth. Some families don't even want prosecutions, they just want their day in court where the facts can be put on record.
Quote from: general_lee on September 08, 2023, 10:43:44 AM
The whole point of the legacy bill is so that the Brits don't have to tell the truth. Some families don't even want prosecutions, they just want their day in court where the facts can be put on record.
The Stardust process shows that the ordinary relatives of people who die in ignored tragedies have a huge need to be heard and respected by authority. They want answers. Some part of the pain can be closed off. Without that, the senseless deaths of those close to them just create more suffering. The Stardust was brutal but in the North far more people died.
Stardust :
"They describe being "fobbed off" through the decades. The "not knowing" – why the fire started, why it engulfed the venue so catastrophically, why their loved ones died – exacerbated and prolonged their trauma. Numerous portraits spoke of "heartbreak" at parents and siblings dying without being afforded the dignity and respect of answers."
A Disused Shed in Co Wexford by Derek Mahon is a popular poem in Ireland and was voted inside the top 50 of Ireland's favourite poems by readers of the Irish Times in 1999.
The poem has a dark, eerie tone, and is about a man in his shed sitting and thinking.
A Disused Shed in Co Wexford by Derek Mahon.
Even now there are places where a thought might grow —
Peruvian mines, worked out and abandoned
To a slow clock of condensation,
An echo trapped forever, and a flutter
Of wildflowers in the lift-shaft,
Indian compounds where the wind dances
And a door bangs with diminished confidence,
Lime crevices behind rippling rainbarrels,
Dog corners for bone burials;
And a disused shed in Co. Wexford,
Deep in the grounds of a burnt-out hotel,
Among the bathtubs and the washbasins
A thousand mushrooms crowd to a keyhole.
This is the one star in their firmament
Or frames a star within a star.
What should they do there but desire?
So many days beyond the rhododendrons
With the world waltzing in its bowl of cloud,
They have learnt patience and silence
Listening to the rooks querulous in the high wood.
They have been waiting for us in a foetor
Of vegetable sweat since civil war days,
Since the gravel-crunching, interminable departure
of the expropriated mycologist.
He never came back, and light since then
Is a keyhole rusting gently after rain.
Spiders have spun, flies dusted to mildew
And once a day, perhaps, they have heard something —
A trickle of masonry, a shout from the blue
Or a lorry changing gear at the end of the lane.
There have been deaths, the pale flesh flaking
Into the earth that nourished it;
And nightmares, born of these and the grim
Dominion of stale air and rank moisture.
Those nearest the door growing strong —
'Elbow room! Elbow room!'
The rest, dim in a twilight of crumbling
Utensils and broken flower-pots, groaning
For their deliverance, have been so long
Expectant that there is left only the posture.
A half century, without visitors, in the dark —
Poor preparation for the cracking lock
And creak of hinges. Magi, moonmen,
Powdery prisoners of the old regime,
Web-throated, stalked like triffids, racked by drought
And insomnia, only the ghost of a scream
At the flashbulb firing squad we wake them with
Shows there is life yet in their feverish forms.
Grown beyond nature now, soft food for worms,
They lift frail heads in gravity and good faith.
They are begging us, you see, in their wordless way,
To do something, to speak on their behalf
Or at least not to close the door again.
Lost people of Treblinka and Pompeii!
'Save us, save us,' they seem to say,
'Let the god not abandon us
Who have come so far in darkness and in pain.
We too had our lives to live.
You with your light meter and relaxed itinerary,
Let not our naive labours have been in vain!'
Quote from: general_lee on September 08, 2023, 10:43:44 AM
The whole point of the legacy bill is so that the Brits don't have to tell the truth. Some families don't even want prosecutions, they just want their day in court where the facts can be put on record.
Exactly.
Exactly. Not to be trusted in any way shape or form. Brexit shenanigans showing the rest of the world this too.
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 05:37:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 08, 2023, 10:43:44 AM
The whole point of the legacy bill is so that the Brits don't have to tell the truth. Some families don't even want prosecutions, they just want their day in court where the facts can be put on record.
Exactly.
Be careful what you wish for.. When/if the truth comes out about how deaths could have been prevented by 'our own' there would be plenty of red faces about with a lot of explaining to do..
Lot of hypocrisy on this one. Back in 2005, Irish gov, Sinn Féin, DUP had agreed with Brits on an amnesty for everyone.
Quote from: weareros on September 08, 2023, 06:07:26 PM
Lot of hypocrisy on this one. Back in 2005, Irish gov, Sinn Féin, DUP had agreed with Brits on an amnesty for everyone.
Yup, people conveniently forget about the "on the run" letters
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 08, 2023, 06:15:27 PM
Quote from: weareros on September 08, 2023, 06:07:26 PM
Lot of hypocrisy on this one. Back in 2005, Irish gov, Sinn Féin, DUP had agreed with Brits on an amnesty for everyone.
Yup, people conveniently forget about the "on the run" letters
What are on the run letters?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 07, 2023, 11:44:29 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 07, 2023, 10:54:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 07, 2023, 06:29:20 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 07, 2023, 05:59:07 PM
Forget political parties and their contradictions.
You either think victims relatives have a right to justice or you don't.
Where does it stop though? Over 3000 deaths not sure of the break down but how many were convicted and are we looking justice for all those that didn't go through the courts or that in this dirty stinking war all sides used dirty underhand tactics to murder people?
There were no ok murders and not one murder in those years has actually brought us any further, as we are still attached to the UK and with SF now in cahoots with the government for 25 years we will actually just get a UI because of a head count!!
Was it worth it and dragging up the past all the time will that solve anything? A truth commission would have been the best way forward
The truth from the Brits? Some chance of that! It isn't dragging up the past, it is the present for many communities and families.
People still waiting on the truth for the disappeared
Was there truth in the south after all the people were disappeared in Cork in the 20's?
A lot lot more disappeared there than in the 6 counties.
If a Labour government comes in again, can this bill be overturned?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2023, 05:49:53 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 05:37:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 08, 2023, 10:43:44 AM
The whole point of the legacy bill is so that the Brits don't have to tell the truth. Some families don't even want prosecutions, they just want their day in court where the facts can be put on record.
Exactly.
Be careful what you wish for.. When/if the truth comes out about how deaths could have been prevented by 'our own' there would be plenty of red faces about with a lot of explaining to do..
I'm not wishing for anything. I want justice for victims from all sides. Plenty of skeletons in the Republican closet and if by some twist of fate a few shinners found themselves with egg on their faces (or rotting in jail!) then so be it.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2023, 05:49:53 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 05:37:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 08, 2023, 10:43:44 AM
The whole point of the legacy bill is so that the Brits don't have to tell the truth. Some families don't even want prosecutions, they just want their day in court where the facts can be put on record.
Exactly.
Be careful what you wish for.. When/if the truth comes out about how deaths could have been prevented by 'our own' there would be plenty of red faces about with a lot of explaining to do..
For example?
I think we all have to move on.
Digging heels in for justice relating to crimes/events 30+ years ago will not help and highly unlikely to get the desired result.
Quote from: Orior on September 08, 2023, 10:50:38 PM
I think we all have to move on.
Digging heels in for justice relating to crimes/events 30+ years ago will not help and highly unlikely to get the desired result.
So those waiting for justice are the problem now? Strange use of language.
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 10:42:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2023, 05:49:53 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 05:37:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 08, 2023, 10:43:44 AM
The whole point of the legacy bill is so that the Brits don't have to tell the truth. Some families don't even want prosecutions, they just want their day in court where the facts can be put on record.
Exactly.
Be careful what you wish for.. When/if the truth comes out about how deaths could have been prevented by 'our own' there would be plenty of red faces about with a lot of explaining to do..
For example?
How many murders have we had no convictions? Are we looking justice for all those? And then what? Put them in prison?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2023, 10:57:01 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 10:42:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2023, 05:49:53 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 05:37:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 08, 2023, 10:43:44 AM
The whole point of the legacy bill is so that the Brits don't have to tell the truth. Some families don't even want prosecutions, they just want their day in court where the facts can be put on record.
Exactly.
Be careful what you wish for.. When/if the truth comes out about how deaths could have been prevented by 'our own' there would be plenty of red faces about with a lot of explaining to do..
For example?
How many murders have we had no convictions? Are we looking justice for all those? And then what? Put them in prison?
Just an example of your "could have been prevented by 'our own' there would be plenty of red faces about with a lot of explaining to do.." will suffice. Thanks.
Does this also mean the Kenova report never sees the light of day?
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 11:16:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2023, 10:57:01 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 10:42:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2023, 05:49:53 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 05:37:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 08, 2023, 10:43:44 AM
The whole point of the legacy bill is so that the Brits don't have to tell the truth. Some families don't even want prosecutions, they just want their day in court where the facts can be put on record.
Exactly.
Be careful what you wish for.. When/if the truth comes out about how deaths could have been prevented by 'our own' there would be plenty of red faces about with a lot of explaining to do..
For example?
How many murders have we had no convictions? Are we looking justice for all those? And then what? Put them in prison?
Just an example of your "could have been prevented by 'our own' there would be plenty of red faces about with a lot of explaining to do.." will suffice. Thanks.
The disappeared would be a starting point..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2023, 11:40:52 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 11:16:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2023, 10:57:01 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 10:42:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2023, 05:49:53 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 05:37:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 08, 2023, 10:43:44 AM
The whole point of the legacy bill is so that the Brits don't have to tell the truth. Some families don't even want prosecutions, they just want their day in court where the facts can be put on record.
Exactly.
Be careful what you wish for.. When/if the truth comes out about how deaths could have been prevented by 'our own' there would be plenty of red faces about with a lot of explaining to do..
For example?
How many murders have we had no convictions? Are we looking justice for all those? And then what? Put them in prison?
Just an example of your "could have been prevented by 'our own' there would be plenty of red faces about with a lot of explaining to do.." will suffice. Thanks.
The disappeared would be a starting point..
Are you talking Nairic?
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 11:47:20 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2023, 11:40:52 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 11:16:16 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2023, 10:57:01 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 10:42:05 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2023, 05:49:53 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 05:37:44 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 08, 2023, 10:43:44 AM
The whole point of the legacy bill is so that the Brits don't have to tell the truth. Some families don't even want prosecutions, they just want their day in court where the facts can be put on record.
Exactly.
Be careful what you wish for.. When/if the truth comes out about how deaths could have been prevented by 'our own' there would be plenty of red faces about with a lot of explaining to do..
For example?
How many murders have we had no convictions? Are we looking justice for all those? And then what? Put them in prison?
Just an example of your "could have been prevented by 'our own' there would be plenty of red faces about with a lot of explaining to do.." will suffice. Thanks.
The disappeared would be a starting point..
Are you talking Nairic?
Aye, he was the only one they are looking for and the ones that murdered or carried out the others have been solved and those families are happy with how it was handled...
:o :o :o
Quote from: Saffrongael on September 08, 2023, 06:15:27 PM
Quote from: weareros on September 08, 2023, 06:07:26 PM
Lot of hypocrisy on this one. Back in 2005, Irish gov, Sinn Féin, DUP had agreed with Brits on an amnesty for everyone.
Yup, people conveniently forget about the "on the run" letters
I think it's a bit of a different situation. The on the run letters were probably necessary to comply with international law and the UK's obligations under the Geneva convention. The legacy bill on the other hand will no doubt be challenged and I wouldn't like to predict how compliant it might be.
Labour have said they will repeal it but withdrawal of immunity would be equally legally problematic
Quote from: weareros on September 08, 2023, 06:07:26 PM
Lot of hypocrisy on this one. Back in 2005, Irish gov, Sinn Féin, DUP had agreed with Brits on an amnesty for everyone.
No they didn't. What was agreed to at Weston Park was not an amnesty for everyone. SF withdrew support when the Brits do what they tend to do, and acted in bad faith over what actually was agreed. Then the SDLP tried to spin a lie that trailer, yourself and others have seemingly swallowed.
Quote from: Snapchap on September 09, 2023, 11:27:39 AM
Quote from: weareros on September 08, 2023, 06:07:26 PM
Lot of hypocrisy on this one. Back in 2005, Irish gov, Sinn Féin, DUP had agreed with Brits on an amnesty for everyone.
No they didn't. What was agreed to at Weston Park was not an amnesty for everyone. SF withdrew support when the Brits do what they tend to do, and acted in bad faith over what actually was agreed. Then the SDLP tried to spin a lie that trailer, yourself and others have seemingly swallowed.
Ah now that's complete nonsense..
This was published October 2005.
https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/RP05-78/RP05-78.pdf
Look at page 20 under B. Specifically includes security forces.
Sinn Fein rejected 3 months later when they were caught out. They pretended this had just been added and clearly you bought it.
And I included Irish gov in the criticism too.
As I said, hypocrits.
And personally, security forces should face justice. But Irish gov, Brits, Sinn Fein tried to get them off the hook with this bill.
This is when SF backtracked in case you need a reminder.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2005/dec/21/uk.northernireland
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 10:55:16 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 08, 2023, 10:50:38 PM
I think we all have to move on.
Digging heels in for justice relating to crimes/events 30+ years ago will not help and highly unlikely to get the desired result.
So those waiting for justice are the problem now? Strange use of language.
I wouldn't use the term "problem". But there certainly will not be desired outcomes for everyone.
Quote from: Orior on September 09, 2023, 04:31:13 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 10:55:16 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 08, 2023, 10:50:38 PM
I think we all have to move on.
Digging heels in for justice relating to crimes/events 30+ years ago will not help and highly unlikely to get the desired result.
So those waiting for justice are the problem now? Strange use of language.
I wouldn't use the term "problem". But there certainly will not be desired outcomes for everyone.
So once a crime is 30+ years old, we all have to move on? Is that what you are seriously suggesting?
Quote from: restorepride on September 09, 2023, 05:45:03 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 09, 2023, 04:31:13 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 10:55:16 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 08, 2023, 10:50:38 PM
I think we all have to move on.
Digging heels in for justice relating to crimes/events 30+ years ago will not help and highly unlikely to get the desired result.
So those waiting for justice are the problem now? Strange use of language.
I wouldn't use the term "problem". But there certainly will not be desired outcomes for everyone.
So once a crime is 30+ years old, we all have to move on? Is that what you are seriously suggesting?
So never would be the call?
:o :o :o Some rare boys on here.
Quote from: restorepride on September 09, 2023, 05:45:03 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 09, 2023, 04:31:13 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 08, 2023, 10:55:16 PM
Quote from: Orior on September 08, 2023, 10:50:38 PM
I think we all have to move on.
Digging heels in for justice relating to crimes/events 30+ years ago will not help and highly unlikely to get the desired result.
So those waiting for justice are the problem now? Strange use of language.
I wouldn't use the term "problem". But there certainly will not be desired outcomes for everyone.
So once a crime is 30+ years old, we all have to move on? Is that what you are seriously suggesting?
Untreated trauma is intergenerational. The North has very high suicide rates. This bill won't fix anything.
So where do you draw the line?
- 1950's campaign
- Irish civil war
- Easter rising
- '78 rebellion
- 1641 rebellion
- Nine Years War
Or are you only talking about the Troubles?
I fully appreciate that everyone suffered loss, but moving on is just my opinon.
What is the scope of these inquiries? Only where there is suspicion of collusion? Whatever your side on this bill is I'm sure everyone agrees that every Troubles killing can't be subject to an inquiry.
Quote from: Orior on September 10, 2023, 10:24:42 AM
So where do you draw the line?
- 1950's campaign
- Irish civil war
- Easter rising
- '78 rebellion
- 1641 rebellion
- Nine Years War
Or are you only talking about the Troubles?
I fully appreciate that everyone suffered loss, but moving on is just my opinon.
Post colonial trauma effects are more nuanced. It comes out in stuff like the attitude to Irish, saying sorry all the time, speaking indirectly etc. It's a huge subject.
The North has fresh trauma. It pollutes the politics all the time. I think the Stardust model would work. Then you can move on.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 10, 2023, 10:56:28 AM
What is the scope of these inquiries? Only where there is suspicion of collusion? Whatever your side on this bill is I'm sure everyone agrees that every Troubles killing can't be subject to an inquiry.
Only if it's to do with themus ;)
Quote from: seafoid on September 10, 2023, 10:57:22 AM
Quote from: Orior on September 10, 2023, 10:24:42 AM
So where do you draw the line?
- 1950's campaign
- Irish civil war
- Easter rising
- '78 rebellion
- 1641 rebellion
- Nine Years War
Or are you only talking about the Troubles?
I fully appreciate that everyone suffered loss, but moving on is just my opinon.
Post colonial trauma effects are more nuanced. It comes out in stuff like the attitude to Irish, saying sorry all the time, speaking indirectly etc. It's a huge subject.
The North has fresh trauma. It pollutes the politics all the time. I think the Stardust model would work. Then you can move on.
The North also has a very lucrative victim industry.
Awful comment in the context.
When the head of the police has to resign because of something related to the troubles, how can the North move on anyway ?
And the Wolfe tones. #Jaysus
There are people who don't know what happened to their families. While it didn't happen in my family I would be pretty sure if it happened in mine I would want to at the very minimum know what happened to them. You look at the likes of Lisa Dorrian and some of the disappeared etc sure they barely even know where their family end up. People need some form of closure. It doesn't need to be convictions or money.
The head of the police resigned mainly due to incompetence.
Quote from: seafoid on September 10, 2023, 11:11:26 AM
When the head of the police has to resign because of something related to the troubles, how can the North move on anyway ?
And the Wolfe tones. #Jaysus
Seafóid seafóideach ach ní ionadh ar bith sin.
Quote from: restorepride on September 10, 2023, 11:07:15 AM
Awful comment in the context.
Awful because it's true?
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 10, 2023, 11:21:48 AM
There are people who don't know what happened to their families. While it didn't happen in my family I would be pretty sure if it happened in mine I would want to at the very minimum know what happened to them. You look at the likes of Lisa Dorrian and some of the disappeared etc sure they barely even know where their family end up. People need some form of closure. It doesn't need to be convictions or money.
The head of the police resigned mainly due to incompetence.
Agree 100% that nobody should have to live carrying that with them. The perpetrators of these types of crimes, where there is no body and no closure, are no better than Brady and Hindley.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 10, 2023, 12:49:12 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 10, 2023, 11:07:15 AM
Awful comment in the context.
Awful because it's true?
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 10, 2023, 11:21:48 AM
There are people who don't know what happened to their families. While it didn't happen in my family I would be pretty sure if it happened in mine I would want to at the very minimum know what happened to them. You look at the likes of Lisa Dorrian and some of the disappeared etc sure they barely even know where their family end up. People need some form of closure. It doesn't need to be convictions or money.
The head of the police resigned mainly due to incompetence.
Agree 100% that nobody should have to live carrying that with them. The perpetrators of these types of crimes, where there is no body and no closure, are no better than Brady and Hindley.
Agree fully with you TB but there are a lot of people who would not want to see their dirty linen washed in public, the Shinners as much as anyone, despite them disagreeing with the legacy bill and all that.
The Troubles saw a society descend into savagery. Everything could be justified. The folder has to be addressed.
But South Africa was probably worse and they did it.
There is no time limit on trauma.
The families of the Ballyseedy massacre a century ago recently got an apology.
It's cheaper to fix it now rather than leave it and do nothing.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 10, 2023, 12:49:12 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 10, 2023, 11:07:15 AM
Awful comment in the context.
Awful because it's true?
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 10, 2023, 11:21:48 AM
There are people who don't know what happened to their families. While it didn't happen in my family I would be pretty sure if it happened in mine I would want to at the very minimum know what happened to them. You look at the likes of Lisa Dorrian and some of the disappeared etc sure they barely even know where their family end up. People need some form of closure. It doesn't need to be convictions or money.
The head of the police resigned mainly due to incompetence.
Agree 100% that nobody should have to live carrying that with them. The perpetrators of these types of crimes, where there is no body and no closure, are no better than Brady and Hindley.
Awful because it was awful and shows a total lack of respect for victims. Says more about your skewed perception of justice. Quite British really.
Maybe it's easier to see the wood from the trees from a distance .. the concept of moving on is laughable
These stories are on the front page of the Bel Tel website today
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/sport/ex-larne-ace-who-was-sacked-for-wearing-an-alleged-pro-ira-t-shirt-fears-for-his-safety-in-northern-ireland/a195941098.html
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/charity-boss-leads-shankill-parade-honouring-uvf-assassin/a1710626921.html
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/downfall-of-a-uda-godfather-50-years-on-who-killed-tommy-herron-remains-a-mystery/a1007106724.html
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/news/uda-thug-tore-out-clumps-of-exs-hair-and-wrecked-her-home-in-drunken-rage/a115941650.html
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/man-48-arrested-in-londonderry-as-psni-terrorism-investigation-continues/a389266430.html
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/dissident-on-terror-charge-claims-he-was-employed-as-a-charity-worker-via-ex-top-cop/a2002273446.html
Quote from: restorepride on September 10, 2023, 06:51:24 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 10, 2023, 12:49:12 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 10, 2023, 11:07:15 AM
Awful comment in the context.
Awful because it's true?
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 10, 2023, 11:21:48 AM
There are people who don't know what happened to their families. While it didn't happen in my family I would be pretty sure if it happened in mine I would want to at the very minimum know what happened to them. You look at the likes of Lisa Dorrian and some of the disappeared etc sure they barely even know where their family end up. People need some form of closure. It doesn't need to be convictions or money.
The head of the police resigned mainly due to incompetence.
Agree 100% that nobody should have to live carrying that with them. The perpetrators of these types of crimes, where there is no body and no closure, are no better than Brady and Hindley.
Awful because it was awful and shows a total lack of respect for victims. Says more about your skewed perception of justice. Quite British really.
I asked a question earlier about the scope of inquiries but there was no answer. I 100% support inquiries into acts of collusion or cases like Aidan McAnespie's where people have been killed by security forces who apparently were operating at a "higher standard" than terrorists, but having a carte blanche approach just isn't sustainable.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 12, 2023, 07:33:36 AM
Quote from: restorepride on September 10, 2023, 06:51:24 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 10, 2023, 12:49:12 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 10, 2023, 11:07:15 AM
Awful comment in the context.
Awful because it's true?
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 10, 2023, 11:21:48 AM
There are people who don't know what happened to their families. While it didn't happen in my family I would be pretty sure if it happened in mine I would want to at the very minimum know what happened to them. You look at the likes of Lisa Dorrian and some of the disappeared etc sure they barely even know where their family end up. People need some form of closure. It doesn't need to be convictions or money.
The head of the police resigned mainly due to incompetence.
Agree 100% that nobody should have to live carrying that with them. The perpetrators of these types of crimes, where there is no body and no closure, are no better than Brady and Hindley.
Awful because it was awful and shows a total lack of respect for victims. Says more about your skewed perception of justice. Quite British really.
I asked a question earlier about the scope of inquiries but there was no answer. I 100% support inquiries into acts of collusion or cases like Aidan McAnespie's where people have been killed by security forces who apparently were operating at a "higher standard" than terrorists, but having a carte blanche approach just isn't sustainable.
So some victims are worth an investigation but others aren't? That isn't really a credible approach.
Quote from: trailer on September 12, 2023, 08:47:47 AM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 12, 2023, 07:33:36 AM
Quote from: restorepride on September 10, 2023, 06:51:24 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 10, 2023, 12:49:12 PM
Quote from: restorepride on September 10, 2023, 11:07:15 AM
Awful comment in the context.
Awful because it's true?
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 10, 2023, 11:21:48 AM
There are people who don't know what happened to their families. While it didn't happen in my family I would be pretty sure if it happened in mine I would want to at the very minimum know what happened to them. You look at the likes of Lisa Dorrian and some of the disappeared etc sure they barely even know where their family end up. People need some form of closure. It doesn't need to be convictions or money.
The head of the police resigned mainly due to incompetence.
Agree 100% that nobody should have to live carrying that with them. The perpetrators of these types of crimes, where there is no body and no closure, are no better than Brady and Hindley.
Awful because it was awful and shows a total lack of respect for victims. Says more about your skewed perception of justice. Quite British really.
I asked a question earlier about the scope of inquiries but there was no answer. I 100% support inquiries into acts of collusion or cases like Aidan McAnespie's where people have been killed by security forces who apparently were operating at a "higher standard" than terrorists, but having a carte blanche approach just isn't sustainable.
So some victims are worth an investigation but others aren't? That isn't really a credible approach.
Well, due to collusion/ineptitude or whatever some murders were never really investigated properly. Others received the full force of the RUC which is the way all should have been investigated.
Fair play to Bellaghy
https://x.com/bellaghygac/status/1738115047547707672?s=48&t=2b3lEtMBzvHzEuxpEFYk0w