Down Club Hurling & Football

[razor]

I think it is a disgrace that club games are played at this time of year.
The July fortnight holidays should be scrapped so that all games are played before the Championship final.
The Championship final should the final game of the year.

[thewobbler]

Razor, the only alternative to finishing leagues at this time of year is to start then earlier in the year. The result would be the same shitty weather.

Playing at this time isn't a new phenomenon, not even close. When I was involved in senior football with the Harps, I'd have considered a Halloween end of season as a short season.

[ardtole]

I think the leagues should start the weekend after St Patricks day, it was the end of april before they started this year. Wobbler is right to say that the weather can be just as bad in march as it can be in October, but if the a game is postponed in March there is the whole summer to rearrange it. A couple of monday or tuesday nights could be allocated for all rearranged fixtures so there is not a build up of them over the course of a season.

When a game is postponed in October the rearranged fixture is unlikely to be played in better conditions. Another reason the leagues should be finished earlier is the play-offs are the most important games of the season for clubs outside of div 1 and they deserve to be given the chance to be played in decent conditions.

[thewobbler]

Ardtole, you start the leagues in mid March and you're up against schools football, under 21 championship, national league latter stages, county training weekends, and the unfriendly weather. you can't play weeknights, so that means a lot of pressure on full league series on Sundays.

I can clearly remember a shift in Down football away from March fixtures around 2000. This was a response to the huge backlog of fixtures caused by cancellations, which were never resolved quickly - and we ended up playing ball in November anyway. We shouldn't go back to that because of an unusually damp October.

[ardtole]

Schools football are usually played on Saturdays, and how many of them lads would be playing senior football? The u-21 games are usually played midwek as well. There would be some conflict with national league games but that starts another debate regarding club footballers v county footballers. We had a county panelist at the start of the year who wasnt playing for Down and wasnt allowed to play for us, utter madness. The fact div 3 has an extra 4 fixtures than div 1 & 2, it would make sense if it at least started earlier.  It is likely that the div 3 play-off this year could be between Carryduff and Tullylish, they played their final game at the weekend but have to wait for Kilclief to fulfill their fixtures, they have at least 4 games left and play in Ulster this weekend. It could be december before this important fixture takes place,  that is not acceptable.

[thewobbler]

D3 is a c**k up this year, no doubt. But without reopening old wounds, mostly down to the dual success of one club.

We have oddities in Down football.

There are a number of clubs who believe that the reason they don't win Championships is due to county board conspiracy with fixtures and player releases. Hence they're always proposing change whether it's of any benefit or not. Which is why the Championship now starts in August.

Hopefully someone has the sense to use Kilclief's achievements this season as a soundboard for applying more sense to the Championship run. After all, despite playing in a lower division all year, half of them away stick fighting all the time, and a handful playing junior soccer before huge GAA matches, they still won.

The bigger oddity though is the emphasis we place on league football. I'm sick of hearing complaints from championship-exited clubs about their leagues being on hold. Of course they're on hold - the main competition is being played ffs.

The utterly daft situation we have in our county whereby league matches get postponed and shifted for county games, hurling games, cemetery masses, and all other mines of bullshit is the single biggest problem we face. Clubs who won't play because of missing players should be deducted points until they do play. That way, you could actually start leagues in May and still be done for October.

[ardtole]

Kilclief had only 1 game postponed due to hurling this year. The last 5 round of games for div 3 were never allocated at the start of the year so if any div 3 made the IFC final it was going to lead to chaos, considering 12 of the 16 teams were div 3 it was always likely.There is no disputing it was badly organised and was highlighted as soon as the fixture list was released.

Im sure wobbler when ballyholland were in div 2, getting promotion to div 1 was as important to you as a good run in the championship. I read earlier in the thread one of the bredagh posters suggesting their playoff game against drumaness for promotion was more important than the jfc final.
I think the fact that our leagues are linked to championship grading is positive and places an importance on our leagues, I know for a fact that the leagues in other counties are only ever partially completed, surely our system is better than that.

I agree that the championship will always take preference but it should be possible to run the league alongside without major disruption. I would say that Down was probably one of the last counties in Ireland to start their leagues this year so moving it forward a few weeks is hardly reveloutionary.

[razor]

I agree with you ardtole.
If the leagues were started in March or very early April and scrap the fortnight holidays you would not have the problems that Kilclief and Burren are causing to the county board at the minute.
I also agree with you Ardtole when you say the league position is important because it determines which championship they play in next year.
I think it is a disgrace that this years Division 1 and Division will not be finished until late november or early december.
Kilcoo have to wait six or seven weeks just to play one game in the play offs. This is totally wrong.
The solutions are that:
You start earlier
You get rid of the fortnight holidays
Do away with the playoffs.

[DownFanatic]

This year we played our last League game before the July break on the 1st of July. Our next League game wasn't until the 29th of July. That's a full month without League action.

The July break should be a maximum of 2 weeks. A month was far too long. If we had of played an extra two games in July then our League campaign would have been over by the start of October which is perfectly reasonable.

Cut the July break to a fortnight max and reduce the number of 'official' excuses that teams use to avoid playing games. For instance:
a) The opening or closing of a Forty Hours.
b) A Corpus Christi Procession.
c) A Cemetery Service.
d) A Mission.

Also in the By-Laws it states that 'The County Competitions Control Committee may designate a "cut-off" date, which will be notified to clubs before the start of the league. The league positions of teams after the "cut-off" date shall be regarded as the final position in the ordinary league rounds.' Im not aware of this having ever been enforced.

[ardtole]

Up until this year there was no problem with the July break. Previously, there would have been a set of fixtures the thursday before the holidays, miss the following weekend and another round of fixtures for the following friday night. There was still a 2 week break but only one round of fixtures was skipped.

[6th sam]

This year we played our last League game before the July break on the 1st of July. Our next League game wasn't until the 29th of July. That's a full month without League action.

The July break should be a maximum of 2 weeks. A month was far too long. If we had of played an extra two games in July then our League campaign would have been over by the start of October which is perfectly reasonable.

Cut the July break to a fortnight max and reduce the number of 'official' excuses that teams use to avoid playing games. For instance:
a) The opening or closing of a Forty Hours.
b) A Corpus Christi Procession.
c) A Cemetery Service.
d) A Mission.

Also in the By-Laws it states that 'The County Competitions Control Committee may designate a "cut-off" date, which will be notified to clubs before the start of the league. The league positions of teams after the "cut-off" date shall be regarded as the final position in the ordinary league rounds.' Im not aware of this having ever been enforced.

I doubt that any matches have been called off for the above reasons a) to d) above,if a match is called off on a friday due to a funeral for example it should be played on the next available monday.

Regarding the Hurling,fixtures are coordinated to avoid clashes,but Kilclief's dual success this year was not predicted.With respect to Wobbler,his suggestion that Kilclief should effectively be penalised for promoting and succeeding at Hurling,got no  support on this website and would have no significant support in the association as a whole.Sometimes we have to sit back and remember what makes our association unique.

Regarding the cut-off date,this should be looked at in the future,as it puts the onus on clubs to get games played asap.I remember in around 2004 our club were given 10 days to clear up our remaining four league games by the end of September,in division 2,so that play-off games could proceed.This is only OK if this date is set out in stone at the end of the year.Regarding this year,Kilclief deserve to have their Ulster campaign prioritised,and unfortunately other clubs just have to wait for the leagues to finish.As Wobbler says,October,November football has been the norm for years,and all things considered is going to have to remain so,unless someone comes up with a better solution.

[DownFanatic]

This year we played our last League game before the July break on the 1st of July. Our next League game wasn't until the 29th of July. That's a full month without League action.

The July break should be a maximum of 2 weeks. A month was far too long. If we had of played an extra two games in July then our League campaign would have been over by the start of October which is perfectly reasonable.

Cut the July break to a fortnight max and reduce the number of 'official' excuses that teams use to avoid playing games. For instance:
a) The opening or closing of a Forty Hours.
b) A Corpus Christi Procession.
c) A Cemetery Service.
d) A Mission.

Also in the By-Laws it states that 'The County Competitions Control Committee may designate a "cut-off" date, which will be notified to clubs before the start of the league. The league positions of teams after the "cut-off" date shall be regarded as the final position in the ordinary league rounds.' Im not aware of this having ever been enforced.

I doubt that any matches have been called off for the above reasons a) to d) above,if a match is called off on a friday due to a funeral for example it should be played on the next available monday.

Regarding the Hurling,fixtures are coordinated to avoid clashes,but Kilclief's dual success this year was not predicted.With respect to Wobbler,his suggestion that Kilclief should effectively be penalised for promoting and succeeding at Hurling,got no  support on this website and would have no significant support in the association as a whole.Sometimes we have to sit back and remember what makes our association unique.

Regarding the cut-off date,this should be looked at in the future,as it puts the onus on clubs to get games played asap.I remember in around 2004 our club were given 10 days to clear up our remaining four league games by the end of September,in division 2,so that play-off games could proceed.This is only OK if this date is set out in stone at the end of the year.Regarding this year,Kilclief deserve to have their Ulster campaign prioritised,and unfortunately other clubs just have to wait for the leagues to finish.As Wobbler says,October,November football has been the norm for years,and all things considered is going to have to remain so,unless someone comes up with a better solution.

Your wrong on this 6th Sam. In the past Ive seen clubs call off games for cemetery Sunday's and Missions.

[6th sam]

This year we played our last League game before the July break on the 1st of July. Our next League game wasn't until the 29th of July. That's a full month without League action.

The July break should be a maximum of 2 weeks. A month was far too long. If we had of played an extra two games in July then our League campaign would have been over by the start of October which is perfectly reasonable.

Cut the July break to a fortnight max and reduce the number of 'official' excuses that teams use to avoid playing games. For instance:
a) The opening or closing of a Forty Hours.
b) A Corpus Christi Procession.
c) A Cemetery Service.
d) A Mission.

Also in the By-Laws it states that 'The County Competitions Control Committee may designate a "cut-off" date, which will be notified to clubs before the start of the league. The league positions of teams after the "cut-off" date shall be regarded as the final position in the ordinary league rounds.' Im not aware of this having ever been enforced.

I doubt that any matches have been called off for the above reasons a) to d) above,if a match is called off on a friday due to a funeral for example it should be played on the next available monday.

Regarding the Hurling,fixtures are coordinated to avoid clashes,but Kilclief's dual success this year was not predicted.With respect to Wobbler,his suggestion that Kilclief should effectively be penalised for promoting and succeeding at Hurling,got no  support on this website and would have no significant support in the association as a whole.Sometimes we have to sit back and remember what makes our association unique.

Regarding the cut-off date,this should be looked at in the future,as it puts the onus on clubs to get games played asap.I remember in around 2004 our club were given 10 days to clear up our remaining four league games by the end of September,in division 2,so that play-off games could proceed.This is only OK if this date is set out in stone at the end of the year.Regarding this year,Kilclief deserve to have their Ulster campaign prioritised,and unfortunately other clubs just have to wait for the leagues to finish.As Wobbler says,October,November football has been the norm for years,and all things considered is going to have to remain so,unless someone comes up with a better solution.

Your wrong on this 6th Sam. In the past Ive seen clubs call off games for cemetery Sunday's and Missions.

Surely in those cases the match has to be brought forward to the Thursday or played on the next available Monday,as currently happens if clubs agree postponement for a wedding.

I would feel that there are few outstanding games not played on schedule,as evidenced by the fixture list this year,Kilclief's dual success,allied to the fact that Div 3 has more teams anyway ,is the reason it dragged on.I agree that 4 weeks in July is unnecessary ,but would be against scrapping the July fortnight as it allows GAA members to plan holidays.

I feel the only solution to this quandry is to change our mindset,and have two seperate competitions as per Magniers league and Heiniken cup in Rugby,whereby one competition can plough ahead without county players if necessary,but there is a more prestigious competition ,?round/robin championship,when clubs like yourself will have all your players available.

[whitegoodman]

That is an interesting suggestion 6th sam but the difference in the magners league is that there is no relegation.  U will see on friday night that both Clonduff and Rostrevor will fight to the end to stay in the top division.  IMO it is vital to be at the highest level possible and playing the better teams wk in wk out in order to prepare for the championship.  It is the same with the county team.

If teams like Saval and Ballyholland are to develop and become championship contenders then imo they need to be playing top level football all the time.

Anyway that is getting off the point on the fixture chaos.  U can see that with all the different perspectives on this board, what a difficult job the county board has.  Alright they have made mistakes but the Burren and Kilclief situation is hardly their fault.

Maybe I am wrong but i also thought the extended break in July was due to Down playing and James insisting that the county players do not play and games and the clubs insisting that they were not going to play any more games without their county players than was originally agreed at the start of the year.  I stand by to be corrected on that one though.

There are no easy answers but would an earlier start solve the situation? Not sure it would.  Would getting rid of the playoffs solve it? Maybe but then that opens a whole new debate about teams playing without their county players throughout the league.

[ardtole]

I don't think there is a huge problem with the fixtures, it was simply bad planning this year. There was no dates allocated for 5 rounds of fixtures, this is what caused the problem. As long as its not repeated next year I would be happy enough but that is little consolation to tullylish and carryduff who are the main victims of this error.

Am I correct in thinking that the leagues in Down start in easter week every year, regardless of whether easter is early or late, that could be a reason for the late start this year. I would say our leagues were almost the last in Ireland to begin.