Author Topic: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate  (Read 22248 times)

J70

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #255 on: January 25, 2023, 02:07:52 PM »
Many biological traits exist on a spectrum or don't fit into neat pigeon holes. How can those who are so upset by transsexuality be so certain that sex and gender identity don’t?

It’s a fact that some people are born with ambiguous physical sexual characteristics. Traditionally they’ve just been assigned one or the other at birth. No sane person denies anymore that some people are born with sexual preferences that depart from the traditional male-attracted-to-female and vice versa “norm”. Why is it so beyond the realms of possibility and acceptability that gender identity and physical sexual characteristics are not tied together quite as tightly as we traditionally thought?

Many homosexual people still have to stay in the closet due to prejudice from their families, communities and, even to this day in many places, legal discrimination and repression. Do any of you feel that that is the way things should be? And if not, what if you’re wrong about transsexuality? Should your discomfort and prejudice mean that the lives of those people should be limited and repressed to make you feel better? What is it to you if the person down the street gets gender altering surgery or just changes their gender identity without the surgery?

Kidder81

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #256 on: January 25, 2023, 09:43:23 PM »
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/isla-bryson-and-the-madness-of-scotlands-gender-bill/


Adam Graham was four years old when, according to his own account of his life, he first began to suspect he might be transgender. ‘I was always hanging about with the girls and always doing make up’, he said. It was not until he was 29, however, that Graham began to openly identify as a woman, taking hormones and changing his appearance.

By that time he had been arrested and charged with two counts of rape. 

It is incredible that the sensitivities of convicted rapists are now the subject of so much official sympathy in Scotland
Appearing in court this week, Graham’s new – and putatively ‘real’ – identity took centre stage. Thus it was Isla Bryson, not Adam Graham, who was convicted of raping one woman in Clydebank in 2016 and another in Drumchapel in 2019. 

It should be noted, I think, that in some quarters it is considered ‘transphobic’ to even note that Isla Bryson was once Adam Graham. Bryson insists that her journey towards her new self is not yet complete: ‘I obviously want all the surgery the NHS can provide’ she told the court.

Bryson does not appear to have a Gender Recognition Certificate of the sort which has proved so controversial in Scotland. In the future, however, there would have been nothing stopping her from acquiring one prior to her conviction. Scotland’s Gender Recognition Reforms will permit such things. Self-identification and an undefined ‘commitment’ to living in a person’s new identity for life is all that will be required. You are who you say you are and it is deeply transphobic to question such assertions. 

An amendment to the bill passed last month which would have prevented people charged with rape and other serious sexual offences from changing their gender before trial was rejected by a coalition of SNP, Green and Liberal Democrat MSPs. Had it been accepted, defence counsel would have been unable to mount the kind of case presented during Bryson’s trial. 

For Bryson’s advocate argued that, ‘There is no way Isla Bryson could be described as a predatory male’ for ‘If you accept that evidence, that she is transitioning, that she is aiming to continue on that path to becoming female gender, that goes a long way to acquitting her of these charges’. Bryson’s lawyer cannot be blamed for attempting to render a purse out of this sow’s ear but this seems a preposterous defence. 

Bryson has reportedly been remanded in custody, pending sentencing, at Cornton Vale. Thus, extraordinarily, a convicted male rapist is now housed at a woman’s prison (albeit in a ‘specialist’ unit there). It may be that a risk assessment concludes Bryson could not safely be incarcerated on the male estate but it seems no assessment has been made of the risk Bryson poses to female inmates if housed at Cornton Vale. As a matter of priorities, this seems telling. 

There are not many trans prisoners in Scotland so statistics regarding them should be treated with a measure of caution. Nevertheless, it is well-established that trans women criminals fit a male pattern of offending, not a female one. Since they are biologically male this can only surprise those already stupefied by gender woo-woo. Moreover, some 50 per cent of Scottish inmates only discovered their new gender identity after they were charged by police. Bryson now adds to this number. This seems dubiously convenient to the point of being suspicious and it cannot sensibly be thought ‘transphobic’ to think so. Something is happening here, even if it is considered indecorous to speculate on precisely what is occurring

In this fashion, trans people with a gender recognition certificate (which currently requires a diagnosis of gender dysphoria) are also victims, tarnished by an association with people claiming to be trans but whose commitment to ‘living’ in their new sex is, at best, questionable. Self-ID broadens the legal definition of trans but also renders it shallower than ever. 

Even without a GRC, the trend is evident. Henceforth there will be few, if any, means by which service providers may distinguish between those with gender dysphoria and those without. Defenders of the bill, including Nicola Sturgeon, argue the problem lies with predatory men, not trans people. This is precisely what its critics have long argued. Maleness, not trans-ness, is the issue. And where once individuals could be excluded from female-only spaces on the grounds of their maleness, now holders of a GRC are to be considered as living in their new sex ‘for’, as the Scottish government argued in court, ‘all purposes’. That being so, it is difficult to see how such persons could be excluded from single-sex areas on the basis of their sex. 

Shona Robison, the minister responsible for piloting the bill through the Scottish parliament, inadvertently gave the game away when she noted that, in certain circumstances, someone ‘might be a genuine trans woman trying to enter a service that excludes them’. Accepting there are ‘genuine’ trans people means acknowledging there are ‘non-genuine’ cases of trans-appropriation too. 

Hitherto a distinction could at least be drawn between those with a GRC and those without. Now that a GRC may be acquired by anyone who wishes one, such delineations will be all but impossible. By the Scottish government’s own implicit admission, it is entirely rational to think so-called ‘bad actors’ – in every sense of the term – will exploit the fresh licence the Scottish parliament’s legislation grants them. This does not appear to trouble the First Minister.

It is amazing how often ‘something which will not happen’ does, in fact, occur. It is even more incredible, however, that the sensitivities of convicted rapists are now the subject of so much official sympathy in Scotland. This is a sufficiently hard and ugly truth that it is considered unseemly to note such things. Be that as it may, it is where we now are. 

No sensible – or sensitive – person would suggest Isla Bryson is a rapist because Isla Bryson has belatedly discovered their true, trans, identity. Once again and for the benefit of slow-learners, Bryson’s maleness is the pertinent issue here. 

Notwithstanding that, however, this case poses a dilemma for Sturgeon and her supporters. For them, Bryson’s self-identification as trans must be taken at face value – even if this means accepting that a biological male rapist is in fact no different, in essence, to those born biologically female. This is an objectively ridiculous proposition but it is the kind of unreality in which the First Minister and her allies are determined to believe. Those who live by the mantra of identity politics are consequently condemned by the logic of their own beliefs.

Time and time again, Sturgeon and her allies dismissed concerns about the Scottish government’s legislation. Male predators, we were told, do not require a GRC to target women. As Bryson’s case demonstrates this is plainly true. Yet it requires a touching faith in the decency of such people to assume they will not take advantage of the more liberal provisions and opportunities now open to them. The Scottish government argues its reforms are simultaneously merely an exercise in bureaucratic tidying and a magnificent, even revolutionary, leap forwards. It is not easy to see how both these claims can be true. 

Current policy, as demonstrated by this case, is a disaster zone but the Scottish government’s proposals will, if ever implemented, make it significantly worse. Throughout this process Sturgeon has airily dismissed any suggestion there might be a clash between ‘trans rights’ and ‘women’s rights’. The argument has simply been assumed out of existence. The First Minister shuts down discussion with the blunt declaration her critics’ views are ‘not valid’.

But as this case – and its portents for the future – demonstrates, those concerns could scarcely be more pertinent or more valid. Ultimately, this is a disagreement between fantasists and realists and it is deplorable to realise that the majority of Scottish parliamentarians are signed-up members of the fantasy club. Well, they cannot pretend they have not been warned of the likely consequences which flow from their delusions. This is meagre comfort but in mad times such scraps of consolation are all that is available. 



trailer

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #257 on: January 25, 2023, 09:49:54 PM »
Kilmacud Crokes identify as a 15 a side football team.

Tony Baloney

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #258 on: January 25, 2023, 10:53:14 PM »
What happens when there are more men in the women's jails than women? Scotland has lost the run of itself.

J70

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #259 on: January 26, 2023, 12:46:58 AM »
So it’s all a fraud and really about men trying to get away with rape and winning women’s swimming medals?

What about women transitioning into men?

Are they ok?

seafoid

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #260 on: January 26, 2023, 03:33:28 AM »
Many biological traits exist on a spectrum or don't fit into neat pigeon holes. How can those who are so upset by transsexuality be so certain that sex and gender identity don’t?

It’s a fact that some people are born with ambiguous physical sexual characteristics. Traditionally they’ve just been assigned one or the other at birth. No sane person denies anymore that some people are born with sexual preferences that depart from the traditional male-attracted-to-female and vice versa “norm”. Why is it so beyond the realms of possibility and acceptability that gender identity and physical sexual characteristics are not tied together quite as tightly as we traditionally thought?

Many homosexual people still have to stay in the closet due to prejudice from their families, communities and, even to this day in many places, legal discrimination and repression. Do any of you feel that that is the way things should be? And if not, what if you’re wrong about transsexuality? Should your discomfort and prejudice mean that the lives of those people should be limited and repressed to make you feel better? What is it to you if the person down the street gets gender altering surgery or just changes their gender identity without the surgery?
If you look at the constituents of the trans community, a very small minority are transsexual. And if you look at what happened at the Tavistock clinic in London, most of the girls were either lesbian or autistic.
 
Most of the men in prison claiming to be female are either sex offenders or opportunists.

And a lot of the men not in prison who claim to be women are AGP, who get turned on by pretending to be women in female spaces. "Autogynephilia is defined as a male's propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a female. It is the paraphilia that is theorized to underlie transvestism and some forms of male-to-female (MtF) transsexualism."

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tonto1888

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #261 on: January 26, 2023, 07:47:47 AM »
Many biological traits exist on a spectrum or don't fit into neat pigeon holes. How can those who are so upset by transsexuality be so certain that sex and gender identity don’t?

It’s a fact that some people are born with ambiguous physical sexual characteristics. Traditionally they’ve just been assigned one or the other at birth. No sane person denies anymore that some people are born with sexual preferences that depart from the traditional male-attracted-to-female and vice versa “norm”. Why is it so beyond the realms of possibility and acceptability that gender identity and physical sexual characteristics are not tied together quite as tightly as we traditionally thought?

Many homosexual people still have to stay in the closet due to prejudice from their families, communities and, even to this day in many places, legal discrimination and repression. Do any of you feel that that is the way things should be? And if not, what if you’re wrong about transsexuality? Should your discomfort and prejudice mean that the lives of those people should be limited and repressed to make you feel better? What is it to you if the person down the street gets gender altering surgery or just changes their gender identity without the surgery?
If you look at the constituents of the trans community, a very small minority are transsexual. And if you look at what happened at the Tavistock clinic in London, most of the girls were either lesbian or autistic.
 
Most of the men in prison claiming to be female are either sex offenders or opportunists.

And a lot of the men not in prison who claim to be women are AGP, who get turned on by pretending to be women in female spaces. "Autogynephilia is defined as a male's propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a female. It is the paraphilia that is theorized to underlie transvestism and some forms of male-to-female (MtF) transsexualism."

Where is your evidence for any of these claims?

Kidder81

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #262 on: January 26, 2023, 07:57:27 AM »
So it’s all a fraud and really about men trying to get away with rape and winning women’s swimming medals?

What about women transitioning into men?

Are they ok?

In the case of these rapists all transitioning when they are charged with offences? Yeah I would say it’s a fraud

seafoid

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #263 on: January 26, 2023, 08:14:00 AM »
Many biological traits exist on a spectrum or don't fit into neat pigeon holes. How can those who are so upset by transsexuality be so certain that sex and gender identity don’t?

It’s a fact that some people are born with ambiguous physical sexual characteristics. Traditionally they’ve just been assigned one or the other at birth. No sane person denies anymore that some people are born with sexual preferences that depart from the traditional male-attracted-to-female and vice versa “norm”. Why is it so beyond the realms of possibility and acceptability that gender identity and physical sexual characteristics are not tied together quite as tightly as we traditionally thought?

Many homosexual people still have to stay in the closet due to prejudice from their families, communities and, even to this day in many places, legal discrimination and repression. Do any of you feel that that is the way things should be? And if not, what if you’re wrong about transsexuality? Should your discomfort and prejudice mean that the lives of those people should be limited and repressed to make you feel better? What is it to you if the person down the street gets gender altering surgery or just changes their gender identity without the surgery?
If you look at the constituents of the trans community, a very small minority are transsexual. And if you look at what happened at the Tavistock clinic in London, most of the girls were either lesbian or autistic.
 
Most of the men in prison claiming to be female are either sex offenders or opportunists.

And a lot of the men not in prison who claim to be women are AGP, who get turned on by pretending to be women in female spaces. "Autogynephilia is defined as a male's propensity to be sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a female. It is the paraphilia that is theorized to underlie transvestism and some forms of male-to-female (MtF) transsexualism."

Where is your evidence for any of these claims?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/22/girls-dont-like-dolls-treated-transgender-claims-tavistock-clinic/Girls who don’t like dolls are treated as transgender, claims Tavistock clinic whistleblower

Dr David Bell, the NHS trust's former governor, said under Stonewall's influence, clinicians believe it is the 'only acceptable explanation'

ByHayley Dixon, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT22 November 2021 • 5:40pm




NHS services treat girls who "don't like pink ribbons and dollies" as if they have been born in the wrong body, a Tavistock whistleblower has warned.

Dr David Bell, a former governor at the gender identity NHS trust, said that under the influence of political lobby groups such as Stonewall, clinicians believe that the “only acceptable explanation” for a range of complex issues is that a young person is transgender.

The consultant psychiatrist described his former employer, the Tavistock and Portman NHS Trust, as a “gateway to puberty blockers”, which put children and young people on the path of a lifetime of medical treatment.

Around 98 per cent of teenagers who were put on to puberty blockers went on to take cross sex hormones, he added.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/11/22/girls-dont-like-dolls-treated-transgender-claims-tavistock-clinic

Dr Bell said that rapid progression to drugs and even surgery in the NHS was “a form of conversion therapy” as with “proper” treatment, many of the children would go on to be gay or lesbian.

Ian McLean #FBSI 
@embradon

·

May 10

Replying to

@tribunaltweets

"Bodies are not inherently male or female". Dear God. It's like the flat earth mob.


61 MPs seemingly unaware of profound lack of knowledge regarding U18s gender-related distress. The steep increase in referrals. Why 2/3 are teenage girls, or 35% have mild to severe autistic traits, or majority are same sex attracted. Over-rep of looked after children 3/


ripx4nutmeg

@ripx4nutmeg

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May 30

A new UK report finds that 60% of male prisoners who say they 'identify' as women were convicted of a sexual offence. It also finds that 1.8% of recent rape defendants were classed as 'women' - even though every rape defendant has a penis


AGP

https://mobile.twitter.com/FourthWaver/status/1592877146749403138

A small minority of trans people are genuinely transexual but a lot have been pressganged because they are gay/ austistic/ traumatised and there is a large pervert component.


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Milltown Row2

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #264 on: January 26, 2023, 09:02:03 AM »
So it’s all a fraud and really about men trying to get away with rape and winning women’s swimming medals?

What about women transitioning into men?

Are they ok?

In the case of these rapists all transitioning when they are charged with offences? Yeah I would say it’s a fraud

Its a bit extreme to have your todger ripped off to try and get a lesser sentence for rape?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

seafoid

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #265 on: January 26, 2023, 09:36:42 AM »
There is a very large trans contingent on line and a large trans lobby. There was no such phenomenon 20 years ago or indeed at any time in the past. 
There is no history anywhere of trans people barging into womens toilets or vaginoplasty for men or sex offenders screaming to be sent to the female wings of prisons.
A trans woman was executed in the US recently. This person had raped and murdered a woman.

 It's all new. A lot of it seems to have been  driven initially  by surgical developments.
Gay marriage was different . There have always been gay people at x% of the population. There will always be lesbians.

There has never been a trans population at the current level. Because it's fake.


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Kidder81

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #266 on: January 26, 2023, 09:45:40 AM »
So it’s all a fraud and really about men trying to get away with rape and winning women’s swimming medals?

What about women transitioning into men?

Are they ok?

In the case of these rapists all transitioning when they are charged with offences? Yeah I would say it’s a fraud

Its a bit extreme to have your todger ripped off to try and get a lesser sentence for rape?

No Todgers getting ripped off, you just say you feel you are a woman now. That’s the problem in Scotland now, it’s all about self identification

trailer

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #267 on: January 26, 2023, 09:50:49 AM »
A load of woke shite. People have lost the f**king run of themselves. Men in Women's prisons, Men competing in Women's sports. One Trans lunatic said he'd be happy to see Floyd Mayweather fight a woman in the ring if he "identified" as a woman. Like christ on a bike. The silent majority need to shout stop.

Transition all you want. But if you were born male then expect to be treated as a male.


Rossfan

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #268 on: January 26, 2023, 10:33:03 AM »
I see Enoch Burke isn't the only narrow minded bigot in Ireland ::)
Remember we're a noble race from a land where Kings once trod.

J70

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Re: Graham Linehan on Twitter / Trans debate
« Reply #269 on: January 26, 2023, 10:33:43 AM »
So it’s all a fraud and really about men trying to get away with rape and winning women’s swimming medals?

What about women transitioning into men?

Are they ok?

In the case of these rapists all transitioning when they are charged with offences? Yeah I would say it’s a fraud

Well yeah, but that wasn’t the question.