Down Club Hurling & Football

[skat man]

Great last line - while everyone can put their own spin on progress - the 'circuit' as its now called, knows no boundaries!

Have you or wobbler a solution or is this just a platform to Moan ?

[supersub]

Down football is falling down with coaches who can quickly spot and replicate the more negative sides of Kilcoo's game: how to form a blockade between your 21 and 25. How to endlessly recycle with patience. How to assign man markers who literally do nothing but man mark. How to wind up and leave sky digs on opponents. How to intimidate referees. How to appeal and jostle every county board decision. How to build a cloak of omertà around the team. Etc.

But despite all of their expensive support teams and specialists, and despite all of their infatuation with stupid statistics, and with even stupider GPS data, and despite all of their hours watching, dissecting then foisting the sheer boredom of club football videos upon everyone...... not one manager in the county seems to be able to get a handle on let alone replicate what makes Kilcoo so bloody good.

None of them have found a way to control momentum against Kilcoo; actually none of them have even found a way to negate Kilcoo's control of momentum. None of them seem to be able to stop Kane kicking the ball into an unmarked man in the right half back channel, even though this has been his bailout kick out for years. So nobody ever scores twice in a row against them. When teams do force Kilcoo into a mistake, it's almost a given that they'll then retreat and hug the life out of the ball for a couple of mins just to get a breather; the exact opposite of how Kilcoo behave in this situation, where they'll pile forward at multiple angles. When you have the ball and Kilcoo get you where they want you - endlessly recycling on the Kilcoo 45 - it never seems to dawn on anyone that this might be the correct time to load the square and make Kilcoo retreat to match up the numbers, and not just form a line with them across the 45, waiting for the inevitable dispossession.


I'm not saying that Kilcoo aren't better anyhow. They probably are. But by f**k wouldn't it be nice if one team in Down didn't just fall into their traps? Just once?

Management in Down club football is bluffery of the highest order. Absolute bluffery.

Great last line - while everyone can put their own spin on progress - the 'circuit' as its now called, knows no boundaries!

So, what about the managers in Down below Division 1 and the Senior Championship. Those who are trying to progress 'smaller' clubs. Thos who are taking a newly promoted Division 3 team to mid Division 2 finish? Or those who take a team to a first IFC title in over 20 years? Surely they are not all bluffers. I usually agree with a lot of what you say Wobbler, but it seems you have disdain towards any 'modern coach'. Perhaps the challenging pack (to Kilcoo) are indeed wasting time, effort and money on management setups, but surely there is good work going on further down the chain?

[Hard2Listen2]

So, what about the managers in Down below Division 1 and the Senior Championship

Ha! Peasants! Unworthy of the gravy train or discussion amongst the huge collective mind on this forum!

[Splash]

Really enjoy the breakdowns you provide Splash - Haven't the faintest idea about whats happening in hurling in the county myself, but gives a very nice insight into what's going on around the county with the small ball

Have to keep the hurling as relevant as the football somehow, Mourne Red. 

It's the only way we will ever get anywhere as a county.

Every Down man that takes any interest in the small ball is a great addition to the county's hurling community.

[Splash]

Intermediate Final between Bredagh and Carryduff should be a very good game.

Not too often you see this South Belfast Derby in the hurling. I expect it to be a good show.

I always would have thought of Bredagh as being more of a hurling dominant club whilst Carryduff would be more of a football dominant club, but I would imagine Carryduff come away with the win on Saturday.

Bredagh have struggled badly this year. That devastating opening round loss to Liatroim really did set the tone for a poor season. Salvaging a win from Newry Shamrocks and beating Warrenpoint has done little to resolve the issues.

Donal Hughes has been a massive loss to them. So has Ronan Costello. It's been a hard year, but more minor success for Bredagh means I wouldn't despair too much. Bredagh will eventually win a senior hurling championship. Granted, we've been saying that for a couple of years, but surely you can't keep knocking on the door forever? With so much underage success, it's inevitable?

They'll not fear Carryduff, though. I honestly expected Carryduff to absolutely walk this championship. Whilst they've come out comfortable enough winners in every game, it hasn't been as handy as I was expecting.

Bredagh's competition will stand well to them. Carryduff have had nowhere near the same level to exposure of high level as Bredagh have this year. This may cause problems. Carryduff's forwards have been dangerous, but Bredagh have good defenders. Niall McFarland is, in my opinion, a great asset to any defence. Carryduff have very much seemed like they were destined to win this from the start, but will that complacency cause problems?

Despite all this, Carryduff should have enough to cross the line. They won the friendlies played at the start of the year, and seem to be in a better place than their neighbours at the minute.

These teams met last year in the Betsy Gray final. By all accounts, they both fielded very strong teams and went at it hammer and tongs with carryduff coming out on the better side.

Carryduff will be sick of being the bridesmaid for the past couple years, and it is hard to see anyone stopping them this time.

Either way, I would imagine whoever wins this will do quite well in Ulster. Would imagine Ulster will be between Down Champion, Middletown (Armagh), and Creggan (Antrim). Judging off the fact there was never that much between Carryduff and Liatroim, there is no reason why Carryduff should not win Ulster.

Would be great to see Carryduff win an All Ireland. Would do a lot to lift hurling in a part of Down that we could really tap in to. But let us not get ahead of ourselves.

Will be a tight battle, and Bredagh, despite the bad year they've had, are still a better hurling set up in my opinion. Carryduff have had some success at underage, but not yet on par with Bredagh (although I'm sure they will catch up). Their seconds team don't seem to be anywhere near as competitive this year as they were. Wonder what happened there. Despite this, based on current form, I expect Carryduff to come away with the win.

Will be another great showcase of hurling I hope. The whole north down/Belfast area is one which Down GAA is yet to properly tap into. It seems to be one which we could really benefit from. All three north down hurling teams are in a final this weekend (the other being East Belfast in the Junior Final)- this a great thing for Down. We have a large area of the county which thus far, hasn't really been tapped into. There is a lot of potential here. From a hurling perspective, we are also lucky it has not got a football tradition. We all know the problems with trying to establish hurling in places where football is king. We have a chance to promote both side by side in these areas we are only now starting to see develop into top tier clubs.

On that note, is there many dual players between Bredagh and Carryduff?

All in all, a unique game, and one which should offer a great evening's entertainment.

Very good Splash, and not a lot to disagree with other than the outcome me thinks.  I think Carryduff have been struggling with a few injuries the last 4 weeks or so, they really have had to dig into their squad.  I also think they were better at the beginning of the season.  Bredagh have indeed been dealt a few blows this year, but its going to be a competitive one, looking forward to it!  I have Bredagh as winners but just!  Expect it to be a very tight affair.  Added interest is that both managers hail from the same club in Antrim and possibly played together at senior level. All the more intriguing!!!

Interesting point there on Carryduff's injury woes.

Their Reserves Team seems to have struggled massively this season. If they are depending on reaching into a squad that struggled against Castlewellen and Ballyvarley in the league, they may be in trouble when they come up against a Bredagh side which has been operating at a higher level all year.

Wonder is there a good hurling culture being built in the community, or is this a crop of talented players? Underage success would obviously imply hurling is on the up in the Duff, but maybe just not at the level yet where they will survive long term in the Senior Championship?

Despite this, I think the hunger Carryduff will have, and the regret of losing out to Shamrocks and Liatroim in previous years, will spur them on and they should get over the line.

I have no horse in the race. Just looking forward to a good game between two good teams.

[Splash]

With the Red High winning the Mageean a few years back, has the core of that team emerged as yet with the Ards teams in the SHC?

Short answer is no.

Those lads would all still be 20/21, only Turpin to my mind has shown his mettle at senior club level on a consistent basis. Ciaran Savage is holding his own in fairness to him and starts for the Ports most days.
McGrattan has went a bit back this year, it'll take him a while to get going, Mallon may be a bit slow over the ground at the highest end of senior hurling club wise, Ports haven't really trusted him in a game of consequence as yet, O'Neill also from Portaferry has been blighted by injuries in fairness to him,  but for us Michael O'g Dorrian starts more often than not, but can do one good thing then do nothing for 20 minutes, his workrate just isn't there for me and evidently our management. The others in Ballygalget aren't putting in the required effort, get the odd 10 minutes here and there. Sadly one of the best man markers on that Red High team packed in the hurling, he's still about our place but doesn't play, but there's hope yet.

One of the Cunninghams from Castlewellan was as good as anyone on that team, not sure how he's getting on with their seniors.

Any idea how the An Dún squad that won Mageen a few years before are getting on now, Johnny? There were some good hurlers in that squad that would be of an age they could have broken into the senior squad now I'd have thought.

Pity that An Dún sort of disappeared. Suppose the success of the Red High made up for it, but was good to give lads an opportunity to win something with their county that, something they may not have had the chance to do otherwise. Believe the An Dún squad had players from Shamrocks, Castlewellen, Ballyvarley, etc.

Something we probably don't talk enough about in Down is the problem we face with our schools. This probably goes for football, too, although it's definitely not as much as problem considering St Colman's dominance of the Hogan Cup and the Abbey having had their moments, too.

Schools can act as a stepping stone between club scene and county scene. It's a chance for lads to get their first exposure to that next level.

The Red High obviously have won a Mageen, and Knock seem to be making progress.

But what is the situation in the College, the Abbey, Aquinas, etc.? Schools are a good opportunity to introduce hurling to lads who come from footballing parishes.

It is no secret how many Kilkenny men have developed their skills in St Ciaran's. Obviously, we are a long, long way off that, but fundamentally, we want to be moving in that direction.

Perhaps talking about schools' competition in such a manner makes it seem very intense and driven. This isn't the intention. Whilst we should want to see hurlers develop across the county to the best of their abilities, we should remember the primary reason anybody starts hurling is for the enjoyment of it.

It is worth saying, that university is another level and the next stepping stone, and ideally, we should want the universities in Belfast competing at the Fitzgibbon level, but no doubt that's a discussion for us to have a couple of weeks down the line 

[Splash]

Quick word on the International Rules with the Scots tomorrow.

A wild strong Irish Squad. Peter Duggan, Padraig Walsh, Neil McManus, etc. David Fitzgerald (who I think at one point, people were saying was a potential player of the year candidate). Didn't realise so many players from McCarthy Cup teams would be playing.

The likes of Eoghan Cahill of Offaly and Paddy Purcell of Laois are as good of players as anyone else in Ireland, and make the Irish team look incredibly formidable.

Also great to see players from counties like Monaghan, Roscommon, and Fermanagh represented.

My only grievance would be the lack of Down men. Given our poor year, though, this is understandable. Calaon Taggart was meant to be involved- is he still, or has he focused on Portaferry?

No reason Ireland shouldn't win. The shinty men will probably be as uncomfortable with the rules as the Irish lads.

Will have to brush up on the rules before it. Obviously not being allowed to handle the ball is the big one, but I don't think you're allowed to kick the ball in shinty?  If I was playing that would be a headache.

Seen a photo of Peter Duggan and one of the Scottish players stood side by side. Mad the size difference. Will Ireland physically deal with Scotland?

I don't know much about Shinty, would love to give it a go. Will be interesting. Not expecting the most gracious of games, but should be some good old fashioned 'pull on it.'

Great honour for any man to play for Ireland. May as well win this seeing as the rugby's out of the question. 

Not a Down man, but great to see Neil McManus the captain. Every little bit for Ulster hurling is a good thing.

I would imagine, given the nature of the game, the field will be destroyed. By the time of the senior game on Sunday, there may be no field left. All adds to the drama, sure.

Wonder why Newry was chosen to host it? Assuming it's because it's easy reached from all over Ireland, and isn't that far a travel from the docks or the airport? Assuming the size of the crowd in Newry will be more flattering than a crowd in Thurles or Cork would have been?

Could be wrong but don't believe Shinty is really all that popular in Scotland outside of a few, niche areas? Wouldn't be on par with hurling in Ireland I don't think?

Should be a good days craic. Went over to play against a crowd in Glasgow once. Great experience.

If anybody asks tomorrow, the Home of Hurling isn't Thurles- it's Newry!

[skat man]

I like hurling as much as the next person splash . The essays you are writing not so much

[manwithnoplan]

I like hurling as much as the next person splash . The essays you are writing not so much

Then don't read them. Plenty others on here enjoy the bit of a narrative and info.

[Splash]

I like hurling as much as the next person splash . The essays you are writing not so much

Feel free to not read them.

I think a couple of posts about the lay of the land in the hurling world breaks up the constant bickering about the state of the football scene and the 'what to do about Kilcoo' posts, personally. 

[KeyboardWman]

Any names of players who have been asked into the county training panel?

[Milltown Row2]

[/quote]

Noticed big Anton along the line for Carryduff, who's with Bredagh? I thought it was one of their own lads I see at a lot of juvenile games.

Also noticed Liatroim camogs had big Donal Nugent with them on Sunday, must be plenty of money generated from the Festival for all those outgoings!


[/quote]

My good friend/club mate/coach/manager over the years

Donal Sheehan

Donal has plenty pedigree and his young lad on the team also..

From seeing both teams I'd say Carryduff had the better games in the Antrim divisions, Bredagh have missed a few players this year for various reasons. Will be close but someone from Naomh Gall will manage the winners

[Square Ball]

Noticed big Anton along the line for Carryduff, who's with Bredagh? I thought it was one of their own lads I see at a lot of juvenile games.

Also noticed Liatroim camogs had big Donal Nugent with them on Sunday, must be plenty of money generated from the Festival for all those outgoings!


[/quote]

My good friend/club mate/coach/manager over the years

Donal Sheehan

Donal has plenty pedigree and his young lad on the team also..

From seeing both teams I'd say Carryduff had the better games in the Antrim divisions, Bredagh have missed a few players this year for various reasons. Will be close but someone from Naomh Gall will manage the winners
[/quot h
Noticed big Anton along the line for Carryduff, who's with Bredagh? I thought it was one of their own lads I see at a lot of juvenile games.

Also noticed Liatroim camogs had big Donal Nugent with them on Sunday, must be plenty of money generated from the Festival for all those outgoings!


[/quote]

My good friend/club mate/coach/manager over the years

Donal Sheehan

Donal has plenty pedigree and his young lad on the team also..

From seeing both teams I'd say Carryduff had the better games in the Antrim divisions, Bredagh have missed a few players this year for various reasons. Will be close but someone from Naomh Gall will manage the winners
[/quote]
A sound bloke to boot MR.

[TakeYourGoals88]

Is there a list of Div 3 and Div 4 Vacancies?? An Dún Abú

[skat man]

I like hurling as much as the next person splash . The essays you are writing not so much

Then don't read them. Plenty others on here enjoy the bit of a narrative and info.

Maybe starting a hurling topic on main page might be an idea instead of having to scroll past essays and quotes of essays