Reports of a mass shooting at a concert in Vegas at Mandalay Bay CAsino. Video on line that appears to show automatic gunfire from someone in the Hotel shooting down into the crowd below. Horrifc
Lots of videos on Twitter. Sounds like somebody shooting on full auto emptying clip after clip. There will be a lot of dead people.
Jesus those videos are brutal.
20+ Dead and hundred+ injured. Horrible scene from the few videos I've seen.
Shooter was a "local resident"
Some reports said more than one shooter? though with the amount of gun fire you'd have thought there was more than one!
Americans will not reform gun laws and they aren't interested in caring for people with mental illness. The result is atrocities as regular as the seasons. The media love the excitement and the pictures are brutal. This is a system problem. There will be another one along in a few months. The GOP is owned by the NRA. People die because of this.
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2017, 11:10:37 AM
Americans will not reform gun laws and they aren't interested in caring for people with mental illness. The result is atrocities as regular as the seasons. The media love the excitement and the pictures are brutal. This is a system problem. There will be another one along in a few months. The GOP is owned by the NRA. People die because of this.
Has Trump tweeted yet?
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 02, 2017, 11:11:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2017, 11:10:37 AM
Americans will not reform gun laws and they aren't interested in caring for people with mental illness. The result is atrocities as regular as the seasons. The media love the excitement and the pictures are brutal. This is a system problem. There will be another one along in a few months. The GOP is owned by the NRA. People die because of this.
Has Trump tweeted yet?
Don't think the finger has been pointed at muslims yet, so what is there for him to tweet about?
Exactly.
Christ on a bike.
50 dead now.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 02, 2017, 11:42:11 AM
Christ on a bike.
50 dead now.
Will it cause a rethink on guns in America? Will it f**k.
Apparently Nevada has some of the most lax gun laws about . . . where were all the good guys with a gun who are supposed to stop these kinds of attacks??!!
I wonder how Trump/Republicans/NRA spin this one back in their favour!
Not sure about Nevada. I know Arizona only requires a licence if you want to carry concealed. You can wear one on a holster in plain view without even having a licence. You're supposed to have a 24 hour (or maybe 48) cooling off period before completing a purchase, but that can be got around in one of the numerous gun shows that happen all over the state.
Quote from: screenexile on October 02, 2017, 11:55:23 AM
Apparently Nevada has some of the most lax gun laws about . . . where were all the good guys with a gun who are supposed to stop these kinds of attacks??!!
I wonder how Trump/Republicans/NRA spin this one back in their favour!
If only some good guy had had a rocket-propelled granade launcher or even a tank handy to target the 32nd floor hotel room where the shooter was.
Less heavy weapons restrictions now!
Named as Stephen Paddock 64 year old white male.
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 02, 2017, 11:42:11 AM
Christ on a bike.
50 dead now.
f**k. I saw the original video footage that had the sustained gunfire audio and thought that the death toll was going to be high but I didnt think it was going to be at those levels.. Sounds like automatic gunfire into a mass of people. Brutal
RIP to all the victims
64 year old local Stephen Paddock named at the gunman and has been shot dead.
RIP to the victims.
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2017, 11:10:37 AM
Americans will not reform gun laws and they aren't interested in caring for people with mental illness. The result is atrocities as regular as the seasons. The media love the excitement and the pictures are brutal. This is a system problem. There will be another one along in a few months. The GOP is owned by the NRA. People die because of this.
this is a feature not a bug. How can you make the argument that all good guys should have guns if you don't have bad guys killing people? God help anyone caught in this.
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 02, 2017, 11:53:25 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 02, 2017, 11:42:11 AM
Christ on a bike.
50 dead now.
Will it cause a rethink on guns in America? Will it f**k.
If Sandy Hook didn't cause a rethink.....
The extreme right wing spun that as a false flag op by BO and the Feds to create the climate for gun control.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 02, 2017, 01:01:50 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 02, 2017, 11:53:25 AM
Quote from: Shamrock Shore on October 02, 2017, 11:42:11 AM
Christ on a bike.
50 dead now.
Will it cause a rethink on guns in America? Will it f**k.
If Sandy Hook didn't cause a rethink.....
The extreme right wing spun that as a false flag op by BO and the Feds to create the climate for gun control.
+1,000,000
Horrible. It's stunning how two countries as culturally linked as ours could develop such diverging attitudes on issues as no-brainer as gun, or healthcare.
Quote from: Syferus on October 02, 2017, 02:57:24 PM
Horrible. It's stunning how two countries as culturally linked as ours could develop such diverging attitudes on issues as no-brainer as gun, or healthcare.
Not really. The US is a colonial country so the guns became normalised. And it is a plutocracy. Ireland is a much older country so it is more stable.
death total up to 58 now and 515 injured
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 02, 2017, 04:42:50 PM
death total up to 58 now and 515 injured
The slaughter of the innocence by a crazed lunatic
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 02, 2017, 04:50:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 02, 2017, 04:42:50 PM
death total up to 58 now and 515 injured
The slaughter of the innocence by a crazed lunatic
Will be interesting to see what ideas/rhetoric he may have aligned with. Is that coming out yet?
Quote from: theskull1 on October 02, 2017, 04:56:05 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 02, 2017, 04:50:17 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 02, 2017, 04:42:50 PM
death total up to 58 now and 515 injured
The slaughter of the innocence by a crazed lunatic
Will be interesting to see what ideas/rhetoric he may have aligned with. Is that coming out yet?
Cops have debunked the ISIS claim on him fairly quickly.
The man was 64. Could a 64 year old, who according to info so far, has led a law-abiding, low key life, be susceptible to bullshit brainwashing without some form of mental illness?
There is a real search for narrative that is going on now and it distracts from the fact that the bastard reportedly had ten guns in his room who shot into a crowd and killed so many.
He is a white male so initially, it wasn't reported as terrorism.
Now ISIS are saying he was their soldier but it isn't being treated like it's fact.
No matter who this lad was with the NRA lobbied for the likes of him to get his hands on those guns so they, as always, have blood on their hands.
The suspected gunman behind the Las Vegas massacre made several large gambling transactions in recent weeks, according to law enforcement officials.
The transactions by Stephen Paddock were in the tens of thousands in Las Vegas, the officials said.
It was not immediately clear if those transactions were losses or wins.
You would guess they were loses. Maybe this was his revenge.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on October 02, 2017, 05:03:02 PM
There is a real search for narrative that is going on now and it distracts from the fact that the b**tard reportedly had ten guns in his room who shot into a crowd and killed so many.
He is a white male so initially, it wasn't reported as terrorism.
Now ISIS are saying he was their soldier but it isn't being treated like it's fact.
No matter who this lad was with the NRA lobbied for the likes of him to get his hands on those guns so they, as always, have blood on their hands.
The gun availability/control ship has sailed. Too many people out there have been brainwashed into thinking that any restrictions on their freedom to buy a military-style assault weapon amounts to vicious, government repression.
This f**ker shot nearly 600 people in a few minutes.
600!!!
(Let that number sink in...)
From high up across the street!
But hey, we in America just have to live with it.
Can't let desperate, at the end of their rope, refugees trying to escape REAL repression in because a fraction of a percent might have terrorist sympathies. No... can't take THAT chance.
But loosing fellow citizens by the dozens on a routine basis to any nut who can acquire a freely available legal or illegal weapon and ammo...
Constitution man!
American society is messed up. Guns are a symptom. Trump is another.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/book-party/wp/2017/09/22/is-trump-mentally-ill-or-is-america-psychiatrists-weigh-in/
Was there some legislation at one time banning these types of rilfes but it ran out in 1994 but it's renewal has consistly been blocked?
This guy owns a house 1.5 miles from me, and police and FBI are currently outside and waiting to gain entry. I imagine and hope it is empty. Neighbours are talking to the police and giving additional background on Stephen Paddock.
For anyone who still doesn't understand how fucked up the gun thing is over here - the majority of American commentary on social media this morning is surrounding how he got the guns INTO THE HOTEL. Not how he got the guns.
The hotel, the government are complicit, but don't worry about the guns themselves. Guns don't kill people.
Quote from: Denn Forever on October 02, 2017, 06:18:09 PM
Was there some legislation at one time banning these types of rilfes but it ran out in 1994 but it's renewal has consistly been blocked?
Think it was passed around then, but expired about ten years later under Bush. The GOP congress refused to renew it and let it die.
The Dems tried to pass a similar one after Sandy Hook, except with no expiration date, but it didn't pass in the Senate. Would never have been even brought up for a vote in the House anyway.
Quote from: Puckoon on October 02, 2017, 06:24:57 PM
This guy owns a house 1.5 miles from me, and police and FBI are currently outside and waiting to gain entry. I imagine and hope it is empty. Neighbours are talking to the police and giving additional background on Stephen Paddock.
For anyone who still doesn't understand how fucked up the gun thing is over here - the majority of American commentary on social media this morning is surrounding how he got the guns INTO THE HOTEL. Not how he got the guns.
The hotel, the government are complicit, but don't worry about the guns themselves. Guns don't kill people.
And the growing use of vehicles as weapons has only added to their argument.
If he couldn't have got his hands on the guns, he could simply have rented a truck from U-Haul.
The debate is over, at least with respect to the US.
And apparently the Great Orange Toupee wants to increase US gun exports.
If anyone thinks that this shooting will lead to any reforms.....think again.
If anything, the events in Catalonia over the weekend will lead to a hardening of opinions as they pertain to the second ammemdment.
Personally, if I ever had the need to take up arms against the government in the name of opposing tyrany, I would probably just move to another country
The Republicans built a coalition with the religious right in the 80's that focused on guns, God and gays (social issues). Fox and other media have been feeding people bullshit since around 1980 . The NRA is the second most powerful lobby after the healthcare parasites. Most Republicans in DC have several NRA people behind them. It is like Tammany Hall 2.0.
https://www.ft.com/content/7345d406-a745-11e7-ab55-27219df83c97
According to the Gun Violence Archive, a group that monitors gun violence in the US, there have been 274 mass shootings — defined as those in which at least four people were killed or injured — this year. More than 11,000 people have been slain by guns in 2017, while just under 3,000 children have been injured or killed.
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2017, 06:49:13 PM
The Republicans built a coalition with the religious right in the 80's that focused on guns, God and gays (social issues). Fox and other media have been feeding people bullshit since around 1980 . The NRA is the second most powerful lobby after the healthcare parasites. Most Republicans in DC have several NRA people behind them. It is like Tammany Hall 2.0.
https://www.ft.com/content/7345d406-a745-11e7-ab55-27219df83c97
According to the Gun Violence Archive, a group that monitors gun violence in the US, there have been 274 mass shootings — defined as those in which at least four people were killed or injured — this year. More than 11,000 people have been slain by guns in 2017, while just under 3,000 children have been injured or killed.
Most people dont care because proportionately people of color are much more likely to die a violent death than white people.
In MA, where I live, the homicide rate (firearm related) for a white male is 2.7 per 100K. (Not dissimilar to Dublins overall murder rate actually). In MO the firearm related homicide rate for an African American is 46.1 per 100K.
If only some people in the crowd were allowed to bring their guns with them then this wouldn't have happened :o
What a crazy place America is!
From speaking to one of the many gun owners I work with you can still buy an automatic weapon legally in the U.S if you go through an extensive background check and pay $20000 for each weapon. He also said it's pretty easy to turn a semi automatic into an automatic weapon. As someone said earlier if nothing changed after Sandy Hook it'll never change.
Gun stocks up after Las Vegas shooting (http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/02/investing/las-vegas-shooting-gun-stocks-sturm-ruger-american-outdoor-brands/index.html)
"Shares of Sturm Ruger (RGR) were up 4%, while American Outdoor Brands (AOBC), the company formerly known as Smith & Wesson, gained more than 3%. A company named Olin (OLN), which owns the Winchester brand of ammunition, rose 6% to an all-time high. The stocks have tended to rally in the immediate aftermath of mass killings, which sadly have become more routine."
Says more about the mentality of the average american; all to gung ho and no normal person can think owing a semi automatic gun can be deemed as required for personal protection or hunting!! If u look at most conflicts past 50yrs America been stuck in them; its their opportunity to sell guns ; missles; planes; all big businness in the states
ISIS are claiming this one but no links have yet been found between the attacker and the group.
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 02, 2017, 10:45:01 PM
Says more about the mentality of the average american; all to gung ho and no normal person can think owing a semi automatic gun can be deemed as required for personal protection or hunting!! If u look at most conflicts past 50yrs America been stuck in them; its their opportunity to sell guns ; missles; planes; all big businness in the states
Stop taling $hite....you know nothing about the "average" American
In the Northeast 3/4 of households dont even own a fvcking gun
https://www.thoughtco.com/gun-owners-percentage-of-state-populations-3325153
Quote from: thejuice on October 02, 2017, 11:27:57 PM
ISIS are claiming this one but no links have yet been found between the attacker and the group.
If they can't prove whether or not there was an ISIS link, where does the shooter stand as regards the 72 virgins policy? If he's eligible even for half that amount he could potentially be bigger than Hugh Hefner up there.
Quote from: whitey on October 02, 2017, 11:59:24 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 02, 2017, 10:45:01 PM
Says more about the mentality of the average american; all to gung ho and no normal person can think owing a semi automatic gun can be deemed as required for personal protection or hunting!! If u look at most conflicts past 50yrs America been stuck in them; its their opportunity to sell guns ; missles; planes; all big businness in the states
Stop taling $hite....you know nothing about the "average" American
In the Northeast 3/4 of households dont even own a fvcking gun
https://www.thoughtco.com/gun-owners-percentage-of-state-populations-3325153
Sarcasm doesn't translate well in this format.
From your article:
STATES WITH EXTREMELY HIGH POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS (MORE THAN 50%)
1. Wyoming - 59.7%
2. Alaska - 57.8%
3. Montana - 57.7%
4. South Dakota - 56.6%
5. West Virginia - 55.4%
6. Mississippi - 55.3%
6. Idaho - 55.3%
6. Arkansas - 55.3%
9. Alabama - 51.7%
10. North Dakota - 50.7%
STATES WITH HIGH POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS
11. Kentucky - 47.7%
12. Wisconsin - 44.4% (Battleground state. See Wisconsin in 2012 Elections.)
13. Louisiana - 44.1%
14. Utah - 43.9%
14. Tennessee - 43.9%
16. Oklahoma - 42.9%
16. Iowa - 42.9% (Battleground state.)
18. South Carolina - 42.3%
19. Kansas - 42.1%
20. Vermont - 42.0%
21. Missouri - 41.7% (Battleground state.)
21. Minnesota - 41.7%
23. North Carolina - 41.3% (Battleground state.)
24. Maine - 40.5%
25. Georgia - 40.3%
STATES WITH MEDIAN POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS
26. Oregon - 39.8%
27. Indiana - 39.1%
28. Nebraska - 38.6%
29. Michigan - 38.4% (Battleground state.)
30. Texas - 35.9%
31. Virginia - 35.1% (Battleground state.)
32. New Mexico - 34.8% (Battleground state.)
33. Colorado - 34.7% (Battleground state.)
34. Pennsylvania - 34.7% (Battleground state. See Pennsylvania in 2012 Elections.)
35. Nevada - 33.8% (Battleground state. See Nevada in 2012 Elections.)
36. Washington - 33.1%
37. Ohio - 32.4% (Battleground state. See Ohio in 2012 Elections.)
38. Arizona - 31.1% (Battleground state.)
39. New Hampshire - 30.0% (Battleground state.)
STATES WITH BELOW MEDIAN POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS
40. Delaware - 25.5%
41. Florida - 24.5% (Battleground state. See Florida in 2012 Elections.)
42. California - 21.3%
42. Maryland - 21.3%
44. Illinois - 20.2%
45. New York - 18%
46. Connecticut - 16.7%
47. Rhode Island - 12.8%
48. Massachusetts - 12.6%
49. New Jersey - 12.3%
50. Hawaii - 6.7%
I shudder to think how many guns are out there. Last I heard there were more guns than people in the US.
ISIS will claim every hit on the USA. RIP to all of the innocent victims, unfortunately mass murders like this have become all too common.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 03, 2017, 12:30:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 02, 2017, 11:59:24 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 02, 2017, 10:45:01 PM
Says more about the mentality of the average american; all to gung ho and no normal person can think owing a semi automatic gun can be deemed as required for personal protection or hunting!! If u look at most conflicts past 50yrs America been stuck in them; its their opportunity to sell guns ; missles; planes; all big businness in the states
Stop taling $hite....you know nothing about the "average" American
In the Northeast 3/4 of households dont even own a fvcking gun
https://www.thoughtco.com/gun-owners-percentage-of-state-populations-3325153
Sarcasm doesn't translate well in this format.
From your article:
STATES WITH EXTREMELY HIGH POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS (MORE THAN 50%)
1. Wyoming - 59.7%
2. Alaska - 57.8%
3. Montana - 57.7%
4. South Dakota - 56.6%
5. West Virginia - 55.4%
6. Mississippi - 55.3%
6. Idaho - 55.3%
6. Arkansas - 55.3%
9. Alabama - 51.7%
10. North Dakota - 50.7%
STATES WITH HIGH POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS
11. Kentucky - 47.7%
12. Wisconsin - 44.4% (Battleground state. See Wisconsin in 2012 Elections.)
13. Louisiana - 44.1%
14. Utah - 43.9%
14. Tennessee - 43.9%
16. Oklahoma - 42.9%
16. Iowa - 42.9% (Battleground state.)
18. South Carolina - 42.3%
19. Kansas - 42.1%
20. Vermont - 42.0%
21. Missouri - 41.7% (Battleground state.)
21. Minnesota - 41.7%
23. North Carolina - 41.3% (Battleground state.)
24. Maine - 40.5%
25. Georgia - 40.3%
STATES WITH MEDIAN POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS
26. Oregon - 39.8%
27. Indiana - 39.1%
28. Nebraska - 38.6%
29. Michigan - 38.4% (Battleground state.)
30. Texas - 35.9%
31. Virginia - 35.1% (Battleground state.)
32. New Mexico - 34.8% (Battleground state.)
33. Colorado - 34.7% (Battleground state.)
34. Pennsylvania - 34.7% (Battleground state. See Pennsylvania in 2012 Elections.)
35. Nevada - 33.8% (Battleground state. See Nevada in 2012 Elections.)
36. Washington - 33.1%
37. Ohio - 32.4% (Battleground state. See Ohio in 2012 Elections.)
38. Arizona - 31.1% (Battleground state.)
39. New Hampshire - 30.0% (Battleground state.)
STATES WITH BELOW MEDIAN POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS
40. Delaware - 25.5%
41. Florida - 24.5% (Battleground state. See Florida in 2012 Elections.)
42. California - 21.3%
42. Maryland - 21.3%
44. Illinois - 20.2%
45. New York - 18%
46. Connecticut - 16.7%
47. Rhode Island - 12.8%
48. Massachusetts - 12.6%
49. New Jersey - 12.3%
50. Hawaii - 6.7%
I shudder to think how many guns are out there. Last I heard there were more guns than people in the US.
Big states with huge populations like CA, IL, NJ, NY and FL all have very low gun ownership.....hence the utter stupidity of referencing the "average American"...... theres no such thing
Just checked my town.....over 500 people have gun permits and there hasnt been a shooting or murder here in the 20 years I have lived here. Meanwhile, the town I grew up in in Ireland has had about 6 murders in the past 10 years.
42 guns recovered from Stephen Paddocks home and hotel room WTF!
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 01:03:32 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 03, 2017, 12:30:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 02, 2017, 11:59:24 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 02, 2017, 10:45:01 PM
Says more about the mentality of the average american; all to gung ho and no normal person can think owing a semi automatic gun can be deemed as required for personal protection or hunting!! If u look at most conflicts past 50yrs America been stuck in them; its their opportunity to sell guns ; missles; planes; all big businness in the states
Stop taling $hite....you know nothing about the "average" American
In the Northeast 3/4 of households dont even own a fvcking gun
https://www.thoughtco.com/gun-owners-percentage-of-state-populations-3325153
Sarcasm doesn't translate well in this format.
From your article:
STATES WITH EXTREMELY HIGH POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS (MORE THAN 50%)
1. Wyoming - 59.7%
2. Alaska - 57.8%
3. Montana - 57.7%
4. South Dakota - 56.6%
5. West Virginia - 55.4%
6. Mississippi - 55.3%
6. Idaho - 55.3%
6. Arkansas - 55.3%
9. Alabama - 51.7%
10. North Dakota - 50.7%
STATES WITH HIGH POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS
11. Kentucky - 47.7%
12. Wisconsin - 44.4% (Battleground state. See Wisconsin in 2012 Elections.)
13. Louisiana - 44.1%
14. Utah - 43.9%
14. Tennessee - 43.9%
16. Oklahoma - 42.9%
16. Iowa - 42.9% (Battleground state.)
18. South Carolina - 42.3%
19. Kansas - 42.1%
20. Vermont - 42.0%
21. Missouri - 41.7% (Battleground state.)
21. Minnesota - 41.7%
23. North Carolina - 41.3% (Battleground state.)
24. Maine - 40.5%
25. Georgia - 40.3%
STATES WITH MEDIAN POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS
26. Oregon - 39.8%
27. Indiana - 39.1%
28. Nebraska - 38.6%
29. Michigan - 38.4% (Battleground state.)
30. Texas - 35.9%
31. Virginia - 35.1% (Battleground state.)
32. New Mexico - 34.8% (Battleground state.)
33. Colorado - 34.7% (Battleground state.)
34. Pennsylvania - 34.7% (Battleground state. See Pennsylvania in 2012 Elections.)
35. Nevada - 33.8% (Battleground state. See Nevada in 2012 Elections.)
36. Washington - 33.1%
37. Ohio - 32.4% (Battleground state. See Ohio in 2012 Elections.)
38. Arizona - 31.1% (Battleground state.)
39. New Hampshire - 30.0% (Battleground state.)
STATES WITH BELOW MEDIAN POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS
40. Delaware - 25.5%
41. Florida - 24.5% (Battleground state. See Florida in 2012 Elections.)
42. California - 21.3%
42. Maryland - 21.3%
44. Illinois - 20.2%
45. New York - 18%
46. Connecticut - 16.7%
47. Rhode Island - 12.8%
48. Massachusetts - 12.6%
49. New Jersey - 12.3%
50. Hawaii - 6.7%
I shudder to think how many guns are out there. Last I heard there were more guns than people in the US.
Big states with huge populations like CA, IL, NJ, NY and FL all have very low gun ownership.....hence the utter stupidity of referencing the "average American"...... theres no such thing
Just checked my town.....over 500 people have gun permits and there hasnt been a shooting or murder here in the 20 years I have lived here. Meanwhile, the town I grew up in in Ireland has had about 6 murders in the past 10 years.
why are you comparing shooting murders in one town with murders in another?
How many murders in each?
How many shooting murders in each?
Despite the obvious - it's a ridiculously small sample size, and you have obviously only used it as it suits your argument - you are using two totally different things to try and prove your point!
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 01:03:32 AM
Just checked my town.....over 500 people have gun permits and there hasnt been a shooting or murder here in the 20 years I have lived here. Meanwhile, the town I grew up in in Ireland has had about 6 murders in the past 10 years.
Whitey you trot this shite out over and over again, and you still can't do the mathematics.
Quote from: FL/MAYO on October 02, 2017, 07:58:04 PM
From speaking to one of the many gun owners I work with you can still buy an automatic weapon legally in the U.S if you go through an extensive background check and pay $20000 for each weapon. He also said it's pretty easy to turn a semi automatic into an automatic weapon. As someone said earlier if nothing changed after Sandy Hook it'll never change.
Things have to get to a state of chaos in the US before there is change. Slavery resulted in civil war Jim Crow ended in riots across the country. Plutocracy ended in negative ream interest rates and WW2.
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on October 03, 2017, 03:52:32 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 01:03:32 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 03, 2017, 12:30:49 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 02, 2017, 11:59:24 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 02, 2017, 10:45:01 PM
Says more about the mentality of the average american; all to gung ho and no normal person can think owing a semi automatic gun can be deemed as required for personal protection or hunting!! If u look at most conflicts past 50yrs America been stuck in them; its their opportunity to sell guns ; missles; planes; all big businness in the states
Stop taling $hite....you know nothing about the "average" American
In the Northeast 3/4 of households dont even own a fvcking gun
https://www.thoughtco.com/gun-owners-percentage-of-state-populations-3325153
Sarcasm doesn't translate well in this format.
From your article:
STATES WITH EXTREMELY HIGH POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS (MORE THAN 50%)
1. Wyoming - 59.7%
2. Alaska - 57.8%
3. Montana - 57.7%
4. South Dakota - 56.6%
5. West Virginia - 55.4%
6. Mississippi - 55.3%
6. Idaho - 55.3%
6. Arkansas - 55.3%
9. Alabama - 51.7%
10. North Dakota - 50.7%
STATES WITH HIGH POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS
11. Kentucky - 47.7%
12. Wisconsin - 44.4% (Battleground state. See Wisconsin in 2012 Elections.)
13. Louisiana - 44.1%
14. Utah - 43.9%
14. Tennessee - 43.9%
16. Oklahoma - 42.9%
16. Iowa - 42.9% (Battleground state.)
18. South Carolina - 42.3%
19. Kansas - 42.1%
20. Vermont - 42.0%
21. Missouri - 41.7% (Battleground state.)
21. Minnesota - 41.7%
23. North Carolina - 41.3% (Battleground state.)
24. Maine - 40.5%
25. Georgia - 40.3%
STATES WITH MEDIAN POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS
26. Oregon - 39.8%
27. Indiana - 39.1%
28. Nebraska - 38.6%
29. Michigan - 38.4% (Battleground state.)
30. Texas - 35.9%
31. Virginia - 35.1% (Battleground state.)
32. New Mexico - 34.8% (Battleground state.)
33. Colorado - 34.7% (Battleground state.)
34. Pennsylvania - 34.7% (Battleground state. See Pennsylvania in 2012 Elections.)
35. Nevada - 33.8% (Battleground state. See Nevada in 2012 Elections.)
36. Washington - 33.1%
37. Ohio - 32.4% (Battleground state. See Ohio in 2012 Elections.)
38. Arizona - 31.1% (Battleground state.)
39. New Hampshire - 30.0% (Battleground state.)
STATES WITH BELOW MEDIAN POPULATIONS OF GUN OWNERS
40. Delaware - 25.5%
41. Florida - 24.5% (Battleground state. See Florida in 2012 Elections.)
42. California - 21.3%
42. Maryland - 21.3%
44. Illinois - 20.2%
45. New York - 18%
46. Connecticut - 16.7%
47. Rhode Island - 12.8%
48. Massachusetts - 12.6%
49. New Jersey - 12.3%
50. Hawaii - 6.7%
I shudder to think how many guns are out there. Last I heard there were more guns than people in the US.
Big states with huge populations like CA, IL, NJ, NY and FL all have very low gun ownership.....hence the utter stupidity of referencing the "average American"...... theres no such thing
Just checked my town.....over 500 people have gun permits and there hasnt been a shooting or murder here in the 20 years I have lived here. Meanwhile, the town I grew up in in Ireland has had about 6 murders in the past 10 years.
why are you comparing shooting murders in one town with murders in another?
How many murders in each?
How many shooting murders in each?
Despite the obvious - it's a ridiculously small sample size, and you have obviously only used it as it suits your argument - you are using two totally different things to try and prove your point!
My point is as ridiculous as the original poster who was making broad statements about the "average American, all too gung ho". Theres no such thing as the average American....theres wide disparities between states and even within states as to the level of gunnownership and crime.
Quote from: heganboy on October 03, 2017, 06:58:21 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 01:03:32 AM
Just checked my town.....over 500 people have gun permits and there hasnt been a shooting or murder here in the 20 years I have lived here. Meanwhile, the town I grew up in in Ireland has had about 6 murders in the past 10 years.
Whitey you trot this shite out over and over again, and you still can't do the mathematics.
Re read the thread....Im responding to the "average American being all gung ho".
My point is somewhat tongue in cheek, but obviously that part flew over your head.
Clinton has come out and demanded the silencer bill be defeated! I did not know the NRA in congress were trying to get this bill passed, I hope they get it shoved up their collective arses, she is 100% right but as usual she has a clear ulterior motive, nevertheless, well done for highlighting the fact arseholes think it a good idea to be able to subdue rapid gunfire.
They are saying this is the largest loss of American life in American history, tell that to the people who got slaughtered at wounded knee!
Finally, a CNN bigshot posted that she wasnt upset that so many lost their lives because the crowd were mostly repugs and Republicans so who the F**K cares basically, they quite rightly fired her stupid ass.
9 rounds per second.
Why does anyone need a gun that shoots 9 rounds per second? For f**k's sake.
Quote from: stew on October 03, 2017, 12:35:33 PM
Finally, a CNN bigshot posted that she wasnt upset that so many lost their lives because the crowd were mostly repugs and Republicans so who the F**K cares basically, they quite rightly fired her stupid ass.
CBS lawyer. Not CNN. Based on current media opinions you've offered this is an important correction.
Her additional comments were incredibly awful and she was rightly terminated (from her job). Her initial sentence wasn't that far off the mark
"If they wouldn't do anything when children were murdered I have no hope that Repugs will ever do the right thing"
Quote from: stew on October 03, 2017, 12:35:33 PM
Clinton has come out and demanded the silencer bill be defeated! I did not know the NRA in congress were trying to get this bill passed, I hope they get it shoved up their collective arses, she is 100% right but as usual she has a clear ulterior motive, nevertheless, well done for highlighting the fact arseholes think it a good idea to be able to subdue rapid gunfire.
They are saying this is the largest loss of American life in American history, tell that to the people who got slaughtered at wounded knee!
Finally, a CNN bigshot posted that she wasnt upset that so many lost their lives because the crowd were mostly repugs and Republicans so who the F**K cares basically, they quite rightly fired her stupid ass.
You just can't help yourself! 😄
What's Clinton's "clear ulterior motive"?
I think they're talking about the largest, civilian mass shooting.
Wounded Knee was US Army on official duty. Utterly shameful, but they were carrying out government policy, reprehensible as it was.
The silencer bill also includes a provision to make it easier to buy armour piercing bullets :o
While automatic weapons are essentially outlawed, for $50 you can buy a device that turns a semi automatic into an automatic. Its not illegal to either sell or install them yourself
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 07:22:38 AM
Things have to get to a state of chaos in the US before there is change. Slavery resulted in civil war Jim Crow ended in riots across the country. Plutocracy ended in negative ream interest rates and WW2.
I can't see this changing anytime soon.
Pretty much all of New Orleans had their guns taken from them after katrina. Which was only possible in those circumstances of martial law. There's no way that could happen in a city without a crisis. If the cops tried to do it they'd end up with a Waco in every city.
The horse has bolted. They are armed to the teeth and are staying that way.
These weapons are no good in Africa or other restless places as they are expensive and hard to maintain. There has to be a market for them especially as the military are constantly upgrading. No point in storing them or destroying them when there's is a market there.
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
He mentioned gun laws today - http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/353571-trump-what-happened-in-las-vegas-is-in-many-ways-a-miracle
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
One wonders if it would have been the time to discuss policy and politics had Ahmed Mohammed been the name of the shooter and not Stephen Paddock?
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2017, 04:48:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
One wonders if it would have been the time to discuss policy and politics had Ahmed Mohammed been the name of the shooter and not Stephen Paddock?
It's a bit foolish I think. Next week he will be saying what he's supposed to say now so I see no point in delaying it. He might as well get on with defending gun laws and ride the storm.
Perhaps he hasn't a clue what to say and hasn't had the time to rehearse.
Even if he called for tighter gun laws and did nothing about it, it would be better for him.
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2017, 04:48:04 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
One wonders if it would have been the time to discuss policy and politics had Ahmed Mohammed been the name of the shooter and not Stephen Paddock?
Will all white "Christians" with Anglo Saxon type names be now banned from entering the US or will those already there be depopted back to England?
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
Now never appears to be the right time. I don't think there ever would be a right time. As an outsider looking in I really can't understand the mentality that anyone can have an issue with trying to have some kind of sensible control over guns. America's worst enemy is itself. There will never be a way to eradicate gun crime or one humans desire to kill another by whatever means but surely it should be made as difficult as possible for people to do this.
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 03, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
Now never appears to be the right time. I don't think there ever would be a right time. As an outsider looking in I really can't understand the mentality that anyone can have an issue with trying to have some kind of sensible control over guns. America's worst enemy is itself. There will never be a way to eradicate gun crime or one humans desire to kill another by whatever means but surely it should be made as difficult as possible for people to do this.
11000 people so far this year.
I think American kids are 80 or 90 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds than European kids. That is abhorrent.
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 06:07:08 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 03, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
Now never appears to be the right time. I don't think there ever would be a right time. As an outsider looking in I really can't understand the mentality that anyone can have an issue with trying to have some kind of sensible control over guns. America's worst enemy is itself. There will never be a way to eradicate gun crime or one humans desire to kill another by whatever means but surely it should be made as difficult as possible for people to do this.
11000 people so far this year.
I think American kids are 80 or 90 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds than European kids. That is abhorrent.
You do realise that many of the murders in the US occur in inner cities, where the likes of you and I (or our kids)wouldn't dare to go day or night? The murder rate in a normal middle class town would be higher than in Ireland but not by a multiple of 80 or 90. Theres a hell of a lot less crime where I live in that States than the town I grew up in Ireland
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 06:07:08 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 03, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
Now never appears to be the right time. I don't think there ever would be a right time. As an outsider looking in I really can't understand the mentality that anyone can have an issue with trying to have some kind of sensible control over guns. America's worst enemy is itself. There will never be a way to eradicate gun crime or one humans desire to kill another by whatever means but surely it should be made as difficult as possible for people to do this.
11000 people so far this year.
I think American kids are 80 or 90 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds than European kids. That is abhorrent.
You do realise that many of the murders in the US occur in inner cities, where the likes of you and I (or our kids)wouldn't dare to go day or night? The murder rate in a normal middle class town would be higher than in Ireland but not by a multiple of 80 or 90. Theres a hell of a lot less crime where I live in that States than the town I grew up in Ireland
How many kids in Claremorris die of gunshot wounds in a typical year?
Even if the majority of deaths are in inner cities why does the US have such structural poverty?
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 06:07:08 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 03, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
Now never appears to be the right time. I don't think there ever would be a right time. As an outsider looking in I really can't understand the mentality that anyone can have an issue with trying to have some kind of sensible control over guns. America's worst enemy is itself. There will never be a way to eradicate gun crime or one humans desire to kill another by whatever means but surely it should be made as difficult as possible for people to do this.
11000 people so far this year.
I think American kids are 80 or 90 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds than European kids. That is abhorrent.
You do realise that many of the murders in the US occur in inner cities, where the likes of you and I (or our kids)wouldn't dare to go day or night? The murder rate in a normal middle class town would be higher than in Ireland but not by a multiple of 80 or 90. Theres a hell of a lot less crime where I live in that States than the town I grew up in Ireland
Oh that is ok then. As long as it is just happening there and where the likes of you or I don't have to worry about it.
He was careful to avoid saying it's just a load of blacks killing each other ;)
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 03, 2017, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 06:07:08 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 03, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
Now never appears to be the right time. I don't think there ever would be a right time. As an outsider looking in I really can't understand the mentality that anyone can have an issue with trying to have some kind of sensible control over guns. America's worst enemy is itself. There will never be a way to eradicate gun crime or one humans desire to kill another by whatever means but surely it should be made as difficult as possible for people to do this.
11000 people so far this year.
I think American kids are 80 or 90 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds than European kids. That is abhorrent.
You do realise that many of the murders in the US occur in inner cities, where the likes of you and I (or our kids)wouldn't dare to go day or night? The murder rate in a normal middle class town would be higher than in Ireland but not by a multiple of 80 or 90. Theres a hell of a lot less crime where I live in that States than the town I grew up in Ireland
Oh that is ok then. As long as it is just happening there and where the likes of you or I don't have to worry about it.
Who ever said that...it's tragic wherever it happens.
He made a claim that a child in the States is 80 or 90 times more likely to die from a gunshot than a kid in Europe. Im simply pointing out that because many murders occur in very specific areas, outside of those areas, the gun murder rates would not be disimilar to what you'd find in similar size towns in Ireland. They would be hgher, but not by a multiple of 80 or 90
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 06:23:17 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 06:07:08 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 03, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
Now never appears to be the right time. I don't think there ever would be a right time. As an outsider looking in I really can't understand the mentality that anyone can have an issue with trying to have some kind of sensible control over guns. America's worst enemy is itself. There will never be a way to eradicate gun crime or one humans desire to kill another by whatever means but surely it should be made as difficult as possible for people to do this.
11000 people so far this year.
I think American kids are 80 or 90 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds than European kids. That is abhorrent.
You do realise that many of the murders in the US occur in inner cities, where the likes of you and I (or our kids)wouldn't dare to go day or night? The murder rate in a normal middle class town would be higher than in Ireland but not by a multiple of 80 or 90. Theres a hell of a lot less crime where I live in that States than the town I grew up in Ireland
How many kids in Claremorris die of gunshot wounds in a typical year?
Even if the majority of deaths are in inner cities why does the US have such structural poverty?
Same number that have died of gunshot wounds in my town and the surrounding towns in living memory....zero.
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:40:05 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 03, 2017, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 06:07:08 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 03, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
Now never appears to be the right time. I don't think there ever would be a right time. As an outsider looking in I really can't understand the mentality that anyone can have an issue with trying to have some kind of sensible control over guns. America's worst enemy is itself. There will never be a way to eradicate gun crime or one humans desire to kill another by whatever means but surely it should be made as difficult as possible for people to do this.
11000 people so far this year.
I think American kids are 80 or 90 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds than European kids. That is abhorrent.
You do realise that many of the murders in the US occur in inner cities, where the likes of you and I (or our kids)wouldn't dare to go day or night? The murder rate in a normal middle class town would be higher than in Ireland but not by a multiple of 80 or 90. Theres a hell of a lot less crime where I live in that States than the town I grew up in Ireland
Oh that is ok then. As long as it is just happening there and where the likes of you or I don't have to worry about it.
Who ever said that...it's tragic wherever it happens.
He made a claim that a child in the States is 80 or 90 times more likely to die from a gunshot than a kid in Europe. Im simply pointing out that because many murders occur in very specific areas, outside of those areas, the gun murder rates would not be disimilar to what you'd find in similar size towns in Ireland. They would be hgher, but not by a multiple of 80 or 90
I would assume it would be a right bit higher!
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:40:05 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 03, 2017, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 06:07:08 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 03, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
Now never appears to be the right time. I don't think there ever would be a right time. As an outsider looking in I really can't understand the mentality that anyone can have an issue with trying to have some kind of sensible control over guns. America's worst enemy is itself. There will never be a way to eradicate gun crime or one humans desire to kill another by whatever means but surely it should be made as difficult as possible for people to do this.
11000 people so far this year.
I think American kids are 80 or 90 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds than European kids. That is abhorrent.
You do realise that many of the murders in the US occur in inner cities, where the likes of you and I (or our kids)wouldn't dare to go day or night? The murder rate in a normal middle class town would be higher than in Ireland but not by a multiple of 80 or 90. Theres a hell of a lot less crime where I live in that States than the town I grew up in Ireland
Oh that is ok then. As long as it is just happening there and where the likes of you or I don't have to worry about it.
Who ever said that...it's tragic wherever it happens.
He made a claim that a child in the States is 80 or 90 times more likely to die from a gunshot than a kid in Europe. Im simply pointing out that because many murders occur in very specific areas, outside of those areas, the gun murder rates would not be disimilar to what you'd find in similar size towns in Ireland. They would be hgher, but not by a multiple of 80 or 90
If it is tragic wherever it happens, then why are you saying it doesn't happen near you? Murder rates are not calculated on different enclaves. So, unless you're making another point...why are you making a point of the locales?
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 03, 2017, 06:55:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:40:05 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 03, 2017, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 06:07:08 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 03, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
Now never appears to be the right time. I don't think there ever would be a right time. As an outsider looking in I really can't understand the mentality that anyone can have an issue with trying to have some kind of sensible control over guns. America's worst enemy is itself. There will never be a way to eradicate gun crime or one humans desire to kill another by whatever means but surely it should be made as difficult as possible for people to do this.
11000 people so far this year.
I think American kids are 80 or 90 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds than European kids. That is abhorrent.
You do realise that many of the murders in the US occur in inner cities, where the likes of you and I (or our kids)wouldn't dare to go day or night? The murder rate in a normal middle class town would be higher than in Ireland but not by a multiple of 80 or 90. Theres a hell of a lot less crime where I live in that States than the town I grew up in Ireland
Oh that is ok then. As long as it is just happening there and where the likes of you or I don't have to worry about it.
Who ever said that...it's tragic wherever it happens.
He made a claim that a child in the States is 80 or 90 times more likely to die from a gunshot than a kid in Europe. Im simply pointing out that because many murders occur in very specific areas, outside of those areas, the gun murder rates would not be disimilar to what you'd find in similar size towns in Ireland. They would be hgher, but not by a multiple of 80 or 90
If it is tragic wherever it happens, then why are you saying it doesn't happen near you? Murder rates are not calculated on different enclaves. So, unless you're making another point...why are you making a point of the locales?
All official reported murder statistics rates are in fact broken down by race and demographic
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/hus11.pdf
Read the bullets under "highlights"on the cover page
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 07:44:31 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 03, 2017, 06:55:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:40:05 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 03, 2017, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 06:07:08 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 03, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
Now never appears to be the right time. I don't think there ever would be a right time. As an outsider looking in I really can't understand the mentality that anyone can have an issue with trying to have some kind of sensible control over guns. America's worst enemy is itself. There will never be a way to eradicate gun crime or one humans desire to kill another by whatever means but surely it should be made as difficult as possible for people to do this.
11000 people so far this year.
I think American kids are 80 or 90 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds than European kids. That is abhorrent.
You do realise that many of the murders in the US occur in inner cities, where the likes of you and I (or our kids)wouldn't dare to go day or night? The murder rate in a normal middle class town would be higher than in Ireland but not by a multiple of 80 or 90. Theres a hell of a lot less crime where I live in that States than the town I grew up in Ireland
Oh that is ok then. As long as it is just happening there and where the likes of you or I don't have to worry about it.
Who ever said that...it's tragic wherever it happens.
He made a claim that a child in the States is 80 or 90 times more likely to die from a gunshot than a kid in Europe. Im simply pointing out that because many murders occur in very specific areas, outside of those areas, the gun murder rates would not be disimilar to what you'd find in similar size towns in Ireland. They would be hgher, but not by a multiple of 80 or 90
If it is tragic wherever it happens, then why are you saying it doesn't happen near you? Murder rates are not calculated on different enclaves. So, unless you're making another point...why are you making a point of the locales?
All official reported murder statistics rates are in fact broken down by race and demographic
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/hus11.pdf
Read the bullets under "highlights"on the cover page
Whites are catching up with minorities. Most of the 2.3 million opioid addicts are white.
Quote from: vallankumous on October 03, 2017, 04:29:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 07:22:38 AM
Things have to get to a state of chaos in the US before there is change. Slavery resulted in civil war Jim Crow ended in riots across the country. Plutocracy ended in negative ream interest rates and WW2.
I can't see this changing anytime soon.
Pretty much all of New Orleans had their guns taken from them after katrina. Which was only possible in those circumstances of martial law. There's no way that could happen in a city without a crisis. If the cops tried to do it they'd end up with a Waco in every city.
The horse has bolted. They are armed to the teeth and are staying that way.
These weapons are no good in Africa or other restless places as they are expensive and hard to maintain. There has to be a market for them especially as the military are constantly upgrading. No point in storing them or destroying them when there's is a market there.
Whilst it would be impossible to recall the guns it is possible to restrict access to the ammunition.
Now I realise there is an awful lot of ammunition stored up but eventually it has to dry up.
The Chris Rock 100dollar bullet sketch springs to mind.....
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 07:44:31 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 03, 2017, 06:55:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:40:05 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 03, 2017, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 06:07:08 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 03, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
Now never appears to be the right time. I don't think there ever would be a right time. As an outsider looking in I really can't understand the mentality that anyone can have an issue with trying to have some kind of sensible control over guns. America's worst enemy is itself. There will never be a way to eradicate gun crime or one humans desire to kill another by whatever means but surely it should be made as difficult as possible for people to do this.
11000 people so far this year.
I think American kids are 80 or 90 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds than European kids. That is abhorrent.
You do realise that many of the murders in the US occur in inner cities, where the likes of you and I (or our kids)wouldn't dare to go day or night? The murder rate in a normal middle class town would be higher than in Ireland but not by a multiple of 80 or 90. Theres a hell of a lot less crime where I live in that States than the town I grew up in Ireland
Oh that is ok then. As long as it is just happening there and where the likes of you or I don't have to worry about it.
Who ever said that...it's tragic wherever it happens.
He made a claim that a child in the States is 80 or 90 times more likely to die from a gunshot than a kid in Europe. Im simply pointing out that because many murders occur in very specific areas, outside of those areas, the gun murder rates would not be disimilar to what you'd find in similar size towns in Ireland. They would be hgher, but not by a multiple of 80 or 90
If it is tragic wherever it happens, then why are you saying it doesn't happen near you? Murder rates are not calculated on different enclaves. So, unless you're making another point...why are you making a point of the locales?
All official reported murder statistics rates are in fact broken down by race and demographic
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/hus11.pdf
Read the bullets under "highlights"on the cover page
I wasn't talking about race - I mentioned enclaves and locales.
So it seems you are talking about race?
I really could do with some clarity here Whitey.
A white man fires into a crowd of predominantly white people, and somebody makes a factual point about the murder rate by firearm in America being many times the rate in most other Western democracies.
And then you say, the murder rate in places where "the likes of you and I" wouldn't dare to walk is far higher than where you live?
So what?
What is the relevance of you making that point?
I'll give you some options
a. As a white person you are acknowledging that in areas of socio-economic deprivation the murder and crime rates are higher as a result of that deprivation and the easy availability of guns - if that is what you are trying to say you should really make it clearer, but I can easily get on board with it.
b. the murder rate is higher in areas where non-whites live and it doesn't effect white people like "you or I" - which, if not given any context could be easily construed as racism - especially since the Las Vegas shooting which started this thread was committed by a white person on a mainly white crowd.
Whichever option you choose, the basic fact is, that if a person dies in Compton or the Cape from an indiscriminate gunshot, both are tragedies, both were humans with basic human dignity, and both should be treated the same. Which, in my opinion, is with a call for gun control. And if those laws have more effect in areas of deprivation than on your own, relatively privileged area, at least you'll have the satisfaction that your support for that law has saved a life somewhere.
So could you clear this up Whitey, because you're forcing me into serious moral gymnastics here to avoid pointing out what seems like the obvious with your statements?
I was responding to a pretty crazy statistic....read the thread.
That thread had stemmed from another statement about the "average American" and gun ownership. I live in MA and approx 85% of adults DO NOT own a gun.
The averages are completely skewed by the extremes amd wengave amlotnof extremes in this country. The averages are not the experience of middle America. If you think they are, thats your perogative!
Do you think the DOJ break down the murder stats by race and size of city for the good of their health or do you think they release them in this format because statistics without context are meaningless?
Yours are
Seems to be a lot of people questioning the accuracy of events e.g. how could a 64 year old man be able to carry and conceal so many weapons, get them up to the 32nd floor of a hotel, hide them from room service / cleaners, set up cameras, then shot himself before he could be questioned etc. etc.
Have also saw suggestions that firing came from the 4th floor as well as the 32nd.
So, what's the thoughts on that? Tin foil hat brigade or something more sinister?
Ah ffs. What do you think??
Quote from: The Gs Man on October 04, 2017, 11:41:02 AM
Seems to be a lot of people questioning the accuracy of events e.g. how could a 64 year old man be able to carry and conceal so many weapons, get them up to the 32nd floor of a hotel, hide them from room service / cleaners, set up cameras, then shot himself before he could be questioned etc. etc.
Have also saw suggestions that firing came from the 4th floor as well as the 32nd.
So, what's the thoughts on that? Tin foil hat brigade or something more sinister?
Maybe he used a forklift to carry all the guns up. ::)
Or maybe, given that he was there three or four days, he took them up a few at a time. In and out of the place with cases and bags.
Like every other guest in the place!
I've stayed in hotels for stretches where I've had the "do not disturb" sign up for a few days. That means the staff don't come in unless I ask them. And if they do come in, are they really going to raise eyebrows about a few suitcases sitting around the place?
And cameras?? Seriously?? Is rigging up a few wireless cameras to a laptop high tech stuff?
As for the fourth floor "shooter" - is there any evidence? Broken windows? It's hardly unusual for all kinds of stories to take root in the panic and confusion.
Finally, mass murderer death by suicide at the point of capture is almost cliched at this point, it's so common.
Basically, some people just don't want to accept, for whatever reason, that an aging white guy did this.
Quote from: The Gs Man on October 04, 2017, 11:41:02 AM
Seems to be a lot of people questioning the accuracy of events e.g. how could a 64 year old man be able to carry and conceal so many weapons, get them up to the 32nd floor of a hotel, hide them from room service / cleaners, set up cameras, then shot himself before he could be questioned etc. etc.
Have also saw suggestions that firing came from the 4th floor as well as the 32nd.
So, what's the thoughts on that? Tin foil hat brigade or something more sinister?
Stop reading InfoWars.com
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 04, 2017, 09:36:41 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 07:44:31 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 03, 2017, 06:55:48 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:40:05 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 03, 2017, 06:30:58 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 03, 2017, 06:16:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 06:07:08 PM
Quote from: 93-DY-SAM on October 03, 2017, 05:41:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 03, 2017, 04:32:57 PM
Trump refused to mention guns. Just evil. Huckabee said now is not the time. The US has multiple converging crises.
Now never appears to be the right time. I don't think there ever would be a right time. As an outsider looking in I really can't understand the mentality that anyone can have an issue with trying to have some kind of sensible control over guns. America's worst enemy is itself. There will never be a way to eradicate gun crime or one humans desire to kill another by whatever means but surely it should be made as difficult as possible for people to do this.
11000 people so far this year.
I think American kids are 80 or 90 times more likely to die of gunshot wounds than European kids. That is abhorrent.
You do realise that many of the murders in the US occur in inner cities, where the likes of you and I (or our kids)wouldn't dare to go day or night? The murder rate in a normal middle class town would be higher than in Ireland but not by a multiple of 80 or 90. Theres a hell of a lot less crime where I live in that States than the town I grew up in Ireland
Oh that is ok then. As long as it is just happening there and where the likes of you or I don't have to worry about it.
Who ever said that...it's tragic wherever it happens.
He made a claim that a child in the States is 80 or 90 times more likely to die from a gunshot than a kid in Europe. Im simply pointing out that because many murders occur in very specific areas, outside of those areas, the gun murder rates would not be disimilar to what you'd find in similar size towns in Ireland. They would be hgher, but not by a multiple of 80 or 90
If it is tragic wherever it happens, then why are you saying it doesn't happen near you? Murder rates are not calculated on different enclaves. So, unless you're making another point...why are you making a point of the locales?
All official reported murder statistics rates are in fact broken down by race and demographic
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/hus11.pdf
Read the bullets under "highlights"on the cover page
I wasn't talking about race - I mentioned enclaves and locales.
So it seems you are talking about race?
I really could do with some clarity here Whitey.
A white man fires into a crowd of predominantly white people, and somebody makes a factual point about the murder rate by firearm in America being many times the rate in most other Western democracies.
And then you say, the murder rate in places where "the likes of you and I" wouldn't dare to walk is far higher than where you live?
So what?
What is the relevance of you making that point?
I'll give you some options
a. As a white person you are acknowledging that in areas of socio-economic deprivation the murder and crime rates are higher as a result of that deprivation and the easy availability of guns - if that is what you are trying to say you should really make it clearer, but I can easily get on board with it.
b. the murder rate is higher in areas where non-whites live and it doesn't effect white people like "you or I" - which, if not given any context could be easily construed as racism - especially since the Las Vegas shooting which started this thread was committed by a white person on a mainly white crowd.
Whichever option you choose, the basic fact is, that if a person dies in Compton or the Cape from an indiscriminate gunshot, both are tragedies, both were humans with basic human dignity, and both should be treated the same. Which, in my opinion, is with a call for gun control. And if those laws have more effect in areas of deprivation than on your own, relatively privileged area, at least you'll have the satisfaction that your support for that law has saved a life somewhere.
So could you clear this up Whitey, because you're forcing me into serious moral gymnastics here to avoid pointing out what seems like the obvious with your statements?
I am so sick and tired about talk black and white, a HUMAN BEING shot and killed many people just like HUMAN BEINGS shoot and kill people in Chicago or Harlem or Colorado, the press perpetuate the race debate and you then have new terms like 'whitelash' and 'blacklash' etc popping up that just feeds the race card, I am so sick of it.
It is time the American Government decided to kick the shit out of the bully in the schoolyard, the NRA, they need to bring that organization to heel and they need to affect real change in gun law without eroding the rights of the people to bear arms, that means a total ban on automatic weapons, semi automatic weapons, very stringent background checks for all gun applicants, that sort of shit needs to happen, they also need to take these legally held weapons back from the people and will have to compensate them for doing so, this will not go down well, in fact there will be hell to pay but the price has to be paid to bring sanity to the situation, enough is enough, cut the legs from under the NRA now!!!
Quote from: The Gs Man on October 04, 2017, 11:41:02 AM
Seems to be a lot of people questioning the accuracy of events e.g. how could a 64 year old man be able to carry and conceal so many weapons, get them up to the 32nd floor of a hotel, hide them from room service / cleaners, set up cameras, then shot himself before he could be questioned etc. etc.
Golf bags. Get porter to bring them up.
if you were a professional pool player you might have a lot of long bags with cues in them, not that suspicious.
I'm sure it is the likes of Alex Jones pushing this half-baked nonsense.
Shows once again what a disgusting and fraudulent individual Trump is that he would praise a man like Jones and appear on his show.
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2017, 11:32:23 AM
I was responding to a pretty crazy statistic....read the thread.
That thread had stemmed from another statement about the "average American" and gun ownership. I live in MA and approx 85% of adults DO NOT own a gun.
The averages are completely skewed by the extremes amd wengave amlotnof extremes in this country. The averages are not the experience of middle America. If you think they are, thats your perogative!
Do you think the DOJ break down the murder stats by race and size of city for the good of their health or do you think they release them in this format because statistics without context are meaningless?
You do know what an average is, don't you Whitey? It is an explicit acknowledgement that there are extremes and an average is used to give an overall picture. So just because Middle America (which is very loosely defined as being where you come from) doesn't experience terrible gun violence, other places in the states do, which means as a citizen of a Republic, you should be concerned about the welfare and conditions of your fellow citizens, all of them having been created equal.
Or you could go the route you seem to want to go, refuting a straw man argument that somehow we all think the USA is a gun ridden fever swamp, and in so doing, defining yourself as different from the black, brown, minority citizens of your Republic.
Fact - the USA overall has a far higher rate of gun violence than other Western democracies
Fact - that rate does not change just because your anecdotal experience means you have not seen gun violence.
Fact - you are the first person to bring race into this, in defence of your own experience, and your employment of stats broken down by race, which are completely irrelevant to an incident where a white man attacked a largely white crowd.
So again, why do we need to hear that is people not like "you or I" in places "we wouldn't walk into" who are committing gun violence, in the aftermath of an atrocity which is the exact opposite of your example?
Quote from: armaghniac on October 04, 2017, 01:07:29 PM
Quote from: The Gs Man on October 04, 2017, 11:41:02 AM
Seems to be a lot of people questioning the accuracy of events e.g. how could a 64 year old man be able to carry and conceal so many weapons, get them up to the 32nd floor of a hotel, hide them from room service / cleaners, set up cameras, then shot himself before he could be questioned etc. etc.
Golf bags. Get porter to bring them up.
if you were a professional pool player you might have a lot of long bags with cues in them, not that suspicious.
The hotel has 3309 hotel rooms and 24 elevators and he was there for a few days beforehand, so it's not as if he was likely John Matrix in Commando pushing a shopping trolley full of automatic weapons. Plenty of time to get the stuff upstairs.
The Yanks do love a conspiracy
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 04, 2017, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2017, 11:32:23 AM
I was responding to a pretty crazy statistic....read the thread.
That thread had stemmed from another statement about the "average American" and gun ownership. I live in MA and approx 85% of adults DO NOT own a gun.
The averages are completely skewed by the extremes amd wengave amlotnof extremes in this country. The averages are not the experience of middle America. If you think they are, thats your perogative!
Do you think the DOJ break down the murder stats by race and size of city for the good of their health or do you think they release them in this format because statistics without context are meaningless?
You do know what an average is, don't you Whitey? It is an explicit acknowledgement that there are extremes and an average is used to give an overall picture. So just because Middle America (which is very loosely defined as being where you come from) doesn't experience terrible gun violence, other places in the states do, which means as a citizen of a Republic, you should be concerned about the welfare and conditions of your fellow citizens, all of them having been created equal.
Or you could go the route you seem to want to go, refuting a straw man argument that somehow we all think the USA is a gun ridden fever swamp, and in so doing, defining yourself as different from the black, brown, minority citizens of your Republic.
Fact - the USA overall has a far higher rate of gun violence than other Western democracies
Fact - that rate does not change just because your anecdotal experience means you have not seen gun violence.
Fact - you are the first person to bring race into this, in defence of your own experience, and your employment of stats broken down by race, which are completely irrelevant to an incident where a white man attacked a largely white crowd.
So again, why do we need to hear that is people not like "you or I" in places "we wouldn't walk into" who are committing gun violence, in the aftermath of an atrocity which is the exact opposite of your example?
I think it's important to give context and background to the statistics.....you don't.....that's up to you
I don't work for the DOJ or the FBI...they issue the stats the way they do for a reason. Why do you think that is?
Do you think Irelands murder stats are skewed by the Hutchs and the Kinahans?
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/republic-of-ireland-is-deadliest-place-to-live-in-irish-and-british-isles-new-figures-34614775.html
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/exclusive-almost-six-times-more-gun-homicides-here-than-in-england-and-wales-34566358.html
Sounds like a very dangerous place to live. You should all look into leaving for your own safety
The US murder rate is 4x the Irish rate. There have been 1500 mass murder events so far this year in the US involving guns and none in Ballyhaunis.
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2017, 02:51:12 PM
The US murder rate is 4x the Irish rate. There have been 1500 mass murder events so far this year in the US involving guns and none in Ballyhaunis.
I'm 100% sure that this is 100% incorrect
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 04, 2017, 03:18:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2017, 02:51:12 PM
The US murder rate is 4x the Irish rate. There have been 1500 mass murder events so far this year in the US involving guns and none in Ballyhaunis.
I'm 100% sure that this is 100% incorrect
I would say Seafoid has made a mistake. Probably referencing from this link below. Its an obscene number regardless.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi7wNuXm9fWAhXKIMAKHZC1BxYQqOcBCCYwAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fus-news%2Fng-interactive%2F2017%2Foct%2F02%2Famerica-mass-shootings-gun-violence&usg=AOvVaw37FDf-k2AcZQsFyEfr0BF8
Quote from: HiMucker on October 04, 2017, 03:52:38 PM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 04, 2017, 03:18:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2017, 02:51:12 PM
The US murder rate is 4x the Irish rate. There have been 1500 mass murder events so far this year in the US involving guns and none in Ballyhaunis.
I'm 100% sure that this is 100% incorrect
I would say Seafoid has made a mistake. Probably referencing from this link below. Its an obscene number regardless.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi7wNuXm9fWAhXKIMAKHZC1BxYQqOcBCCYwAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fus-news%2Fng-interactive%2F2017%2Foct%2F02%2Famerica-mass-shootings-gun-violence&usg=AOvVaw37FDf-k2AcZQsFyEfr0BF8
Sorry
It was only 274. 4 or more dead
Around 1500 dead from.them
https://www.ft.com/content/7345d406-a745-11e7-ab55-27219df83c97
According to the Gun Violence Archive, a US monitoring group, there have been 274 mass shootings — defined as those in which at least four people were killed or injured — this year. More than 11,000 people have been slain by guns in 2017, while just under 3,000 children have been injured or killed.
Ft
That is the NRA's rule number one: insist that tragedy is no time for politics. Rule number two is to focus on the fixed quantum of human evil — hence Mr Trump's strange biblical riff. It is not guns that kill people. It is bad people who kill people. Rule number three is that good people should thus arm themselves. Whether it is pilots, teachers or concertgoers, innocent Americans must be able to protect themselves from evil.
The NRA were one of Trump's most important backers. 5m NRA members are core Trumpers. Some of them may be mentally ill and want to kill. 274 so far this year
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2017, 02:10:30 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 04, 2017, 01:27:35 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2017, 11:32:23 AM
I was responding to a pretty crazy statistic....read the thread.
That thread had stemmed from another statement about the "average American" and gun ownership. I live in MA and approx 85% of adults DO NOT own a gun.
The averages are completely skewed by the extremes amd wengave amlotnof extremes in this country. The averages are not the experience of middle America. If you think they are, thats your perogative!
Do you think the DOJ break down the murder stats by race and size of city for the good of their health or do you think they release them in this format because statistics without context are meaningless?
You do know what an average is, don't you Whitey? It is an explicit acknowledgement that there are extremes and an average is used to give an overall picture. So just because Middle America (which is very loosely defined as being where you come from) doesn't experience terrible gun violence, other places in the states do, which means as a citizen of a Republic, you should be concerned about the welfare and conditions of your fellow citizens, all of them having been created equal.
Or you could go the route you seem to want to go, refuting a straw man argument that somehow we all think the USA is a gun ridden fever swamp, and in so doing, defining yourself as different from the black, brown, minority citizens of your Republic.
Fact - the USA overall has a far higher rate of gun violence than other Western democracies
Fact - that rate does not change just because your anecdotal experience means you have not seen gun violence.
Fact - you are the first person to bring race into this, in defence of your own experience, and your employment of stats broken down by race, which are completely irrelevant to an incident where a white man attacked a largely white crowd.
So again, why do we need to hear that is people not like "you or I" in places "we wouldn't walk into" who are committing gun violence, in the aftermath of an atrocity which is the exact opposite of your example?
I think it's important to give context and background to the statistics.....you don't.....that's up to you
I don't work for the DOJ or the FBI...they issue the stats the way they do for a reason. Why do you think that is?
Do you think Irelands murder stats are skewed by the Hutchs and the Kinahans?
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/republic-of-ireland-is-deadliest-place-to-live-in-irish-and-british-isles-new-figures-34614775.html
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/exclusive-almost-six-times-more-gun-homicides-here-than-in-england-and-wales-34566358.html
Sounds like a very dangerous place to live. You should all look into leaving for your own safety
Not at all - I live about 11kms from the north city centre, so I'm thankfully not dodging bullets. Where I differ from you in Middle America is that I feel empathy for people caught up in the gun violence, and I recognise that they are citizens of this city and this Republic, which is as much theirs as mine, and their inability to do so demeans my citizenship as much as it demeans theirs.
I had the privilege of helping to document an art project taking place this year with contributions from schoolkids all over the country - I got to spend two days down in Sheriff Street in pre-schools and primary schools, and it absolutely broke my heart to see the community solidarity and spirit down there, that was constantly being undermined by gang violence there. They soldiered on despite the physical violence, the mental stress and the bigotry and stereotyping that comes with a Dublin 1 address.
Again, there was absolutely no reason for you, other than race, to bring in those DOJ and FBI stats. This was a crime committed by a white man on a mainly white crowd. You still haven't answered why you felt the need to do this, bar the obvious - which I am doing my best not to label you with.
How about answering the question?
Quote from: seafoid on October 04, 2017, 04:03:28 PM
Ft
That is the NRA's rule number one: insist that tragedy is no time for politics. Rule number two is to focus on the fixed quantum of human evil — hence Mr Trump's strange biblical riff. It is not guns that kill people. It is bad people who kill people. Rule number three is that good people should thus arm themselves. Whether it is pilots, teachers or concertgoers, innocent Americans must be able to protect themselves from evil.
The NRA were one of Trump's most important backers. 5m NRA members are core Trumpers. Some of them may be mentally ill and want to kill. 274 so far this year
Didn't Trump reverse some of the gun laws brought in by Obama to stop mentally ill people getting guns? A bit of payback for his backers.
Part of the problem with respect to the NRA is that there are even more radical(!) gun organizations out there trying to move in on their ground. If they cede an inch, the whackjobs and the money will just move to someone who will toe the line.
If the Kinahans, Hutches, Dundons, Keanes, Thompsons etc wiped themselves out in a shootout I would crack open a beer to celebrate.
I asked you a question which for either the second or third time you have refused to answer.
Why do the DOJ and FBI quote the stats they way they do if it's irrelevant?
It's them quoting the statistics ....I'm just pointing it out
Answer my question, which I posed first - why do you think it is relevant to talk about gun crime stats broken down by race, and also to make points about gun crime only happening where others, unlike you, live, in the aftermath of an atrocity committed by a white man on a white crowd?
Also, I said nothing about the Kinahans and Hutchs - I spoke about the community being victimised by their crimes.
So, do you have anything to say, besides being deliberately misleading?
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 04, 2017, 04:26:31 PM
Answer my question, which I posed first - why do you think it is relevant to talk about gun crime stats broken down by race, and also to make points about gun crime only happening where others, unlike you, live, in the aftermath of an atrocity committed by a white man on a white crowd?
Also, I said nothing about the Kinahans and Hutchs - I spoke about the community being victimised by their crimes.
So, do you have anything to say, besides being deliberately misleading?
"You feel empathy for people caught up in gun violence". Does your empathy extend to the people shooting up your city?
The stats are the stats and are presented as such....ignore them or discount them if you want....
(http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2012/mar/19/edward-flynn/85-percent-shooting-suspects-and-victims-milwaukee/)
Answer the question - why are you using stats based on race when it has no relevance to the atrocity in Las Vegas?
As for whether I feel empathy for people shooting up Dublin, nothing I wrote can have given you that impression. It's kind of pathetic to see you resorting to transparent tricks like that.
Are you going to answer the question?
Quote from: J70 on October 04, 2017, 12:25:08 PM
Quote from: The Gs Man on October 04, 2017, 11:41:02 AM
Seems to be a lot of people questioning the accuracy of events e.g. how could a 64 year old man be able to carry and conceal so many weapons, get them up to the 32nd floor of a hotel, hide them from room service / cleaners, set up cameras, then shot himself before he could be questioned etc. etc.
Have also saw suggestions that firing came from the 4th floor as well as the 32nd.
So, what's the thoughts on that? Tin foil hat brigade or something more sinister?
Maybe he used a forklift to carry all the guns up. ::)
Or maybe, given that he was there three or four days, he took them up a few at a time. In and out of the place with cases and bags.
Like every other guest in the place!
I've stayed in hotels for stretches where I've had the "do not disturb" sign up for a few days. That means the staff don't come in unless I ask them. And if they do come in, are they really going to raise eyebrows about a few suitcases sitting around the place?
And cameras?? Seriously?? Is rigging up a few wireless cameras to a laptop high tech stuff?
As for the fourth floor "shooter" - is there any evidence? Broken windows? It's hardly unusual for all kinds of stories to take root in the panic and confusion.
Finally, mass murderer death by suicide at the point of capture is almost cliched at this point, it's so common.
Basically, some people just don't want to accept, for whatever reason, that an aging white guy did this.
Room Service was in his room numerous times during his stay including morning before the shooting, no suspicious activity detected.
No shooting from the 4th floor, no windows broken.
After the PR success :-[ of his trip to Puerto Rico yesterday, I wonder how he'll get on in Vegas today..
Craig Herman, 57, a contractor, told the Telegraph: "I was right in front of the stage. I heard 'pop, pop, pop' over and over again. When he was reloading I ran. I stepped over a guy with blood pouring out of his head. He was dead. Gone. I saw maybe 15 others like that before I got out.
"There were people screaming, lying on the ground. I've never seen so much blood. I kept thinking what type of person would do this, who would be that kind of stupid? Was it the Taliban? Mexican cartels? Gang related? But it was someone a bit like me."
Great little piece here by John Oliver on Alex Jones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGq6cjcc3Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyGq6cjcc3Q)
He's basically a rolling infomercial that makes millions of dollars hawking various products to gullible and paranoid people.
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 04, 2017, 04:45:11 PM
Answer the question - why are you using stats based on race when it has no relevance to the atrocity in Las Vegas?
As for whether I feel empathy for people shooting up Dublin, nothing I wrote can have given you that impression. It's kind of pathetic to see you resorting to transparent tricks like that.
Are you going to answer the question?
Re read the thread....I was simply pointing out that "averages" dont paint a complete picture as to murder rates and gun crime. Many murder victims (as in Dublin) are career criminals with rap sheets as long as your arm. They are murdered by other career criminals with rap sheets as long as your arm. Many of these murders occur in very tight geographic regions, where regular people dont venture day or night.
Obviously the DOJ and the FBI concur with me, as that is how they deliver the data.
Unlike you I believe people who live in areas, the north inner city are "regular" people. And you have still not answered the question as to what relevance your stats and your anecdotal middle American experience has the crime in question and why you quoted them.
Are you going to answer the question? (Here's a hint - i'm looking to find out why you used them, not why the FBI collected them. I thought right wingers like you were into personal responsibility)
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 04, 2017, 07:39:59 PM
Unlike you I believe people who live in areas, the north inner city are "regular" people. And you have still not answered the question as to what relevance your stats and your anecdotal middle American experience has the crime in question and why you quoted them.
Are you going to answer the question? (Here's a hint - i'm looking to find out why you used them, not why the FBI collected them. I thought right wingers like you were into personal responsibility)
I use them for the same reason they are collected....because they are relevant to the dialogue and they give perspective and color to otherwise meaningless statistics.
Quote from: whitey on October 04, 2017, 08:02:29 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 04, 2017, 07:39:59 PM
Unlike you I believe people who live in areas, the north inner city are "regular" people. And you have still not answered the question as to what relevance your stats and your anecdotal middle American experience has the crime in question and why you quoted them.
Are you going to answer the question? (Here's a hint - i'm looking to find out why you used them, not why the FBI collected them. I thought right wingers like you were into personal responsibility)
I use them for the same reason they are collected....because they are relevant to the dialogue and they give perspective and color to otherwise meaningless statistics.
Indeed
But you still haven't answered- why are they relevant to the discussion of a crime committed by a white person on a largely white crowd???
Whitey, credibility is a finite resource and yours is running out
They give one perspective White, and that happens to suit your agenda. How about by sex, what is the proportion of male to female gun crime. Oh wait, that's a significantly more statistically important number. Maybe just women can have guns.
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 04, 2017, 08:32:56 PM
But you still haven't answered- why are they relevant to the discussion of a crime committed by a white person on a largely white crowd???
Whitey, credibility is a finite resource and yours is running out
It started as a response to a quote about the mentality of the "average american" being all gung ho about owning guns.
(Says more about the mentality of the average american; all to gung ho and no normal person can think owing a semi automatic gun can be deemed as required for personal protection or hunting!! If u look at most conflicts past 50yrs America been stuck in them; its their opportunity to sell guns ; missles; planes; all big businness in the states
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 10:47:12 PM by Wildweasel74 »
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85% of people in MA dont even own a fvcking gun.....so using averages to explain anything to do with guns in this context is completely misleading because there are such extremes from state to state and even from city to city that the averages become completely meaningless.
The murder rate in Chicago is X, but if 90 % of the murders occur in area Y.....then the murder rate for people who have never set foot in area Y is not X. Its not as low as it is in Ireland, but its definitely not X.
Nah whitey, that's not what you said. You said the murder rate was driven by people not like "you and me" in places where "regular" people wouldn't set foot. So for America that excludes black and brown people from "regular" people and we know for sure that in an Irish context that means you don't think northside dubs are either.
And all this just to prove that your anecdotal experience of middle America is the norm in the face of overwhelming statatistical evidence that America as a whole has a systemic problem with guns. In the same week as a man as representative of middle America as any other slaughtered 59 other middle Americans.
If I were you, I wouldn't have staked my credibility for that argument. If I were you, i'd examine some of my attitudes.
Believe whatever you want.....I stand by by assertion that a large percentage of murders are gang and drug related and occur between people with long criminal rap sheets who already know each other.
Outside of those specific instances and areas the average numbers look quite different.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-01/51-murders-us-come-just-2-counties
"Conclusion
This study shows how murders in the United States are heavily concentrated in very small areas. Few appreciate how much of the US has no murders each year. Murder isn't a nationwide problem. It's a problem in a very small set of urban areas, and any solution must reduce those murders."
(And the townI live in has had zero murders in the past 10 years in spite of having 500+ licensed gun owners. The town I grew up in Ireland has had 6 murders over the past decade)
Whitey you're not longer defending the indefensible, you're just ignoring it. You are hiding behind numbers when it is your words and attitudes that I have questioned. no one is quibbling with your numbers - it's why you saw fit to use them in the aftermath of an incident they do not relate to. Still not answered. I guess us non-regular people (ie people who are not white, massachusetts dwelling, gun violence virgins) aren't worth answering.
Why, it's almost like you're politicising a tragedy. I thought you guys weren't into that?
And for those who would like to quibble with whitey's numeric conclusions- a really good primer on gun stats especially on the relationship between gun ownership and homicide rates, suicide rates and mass murder rates.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts
Ill take my chances and keep dodging the bullets.
As apparently I have to do in Dublin, according to you. But as I said again and again, it's not about numbers, it's about how and why you used them, and why you chose to inject race into this discussion. Something you did and still refuse to answer for.
My country, right or wrong, eh whitey?
Whitey talking complete shite there. Sandyhook and those places probably thought the same as you. Sure it'll be grand, it's all those gangs and drug dealers shooting each other just.How can you tell where the next mass shooting is going to be! America obviously has a major problem with gun crime but it's such a fucked up country that they can't make changes to it. You can literally carry an assult rifle down the street. Crazy place. Ironically, the North is probably one of the safer areas in the world now.
It's not guns that kill people, it's the person using it, that's the line the NRA are using and they are sticking to it! No budging from it either, treat the person not the tool
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2017, 07:28:15 AM
It's not guns that kill people, it's the person using it, that's the line the NRA are using and they are sticking to it! No budging from it either, treat the person not the tool
Did NRA see any problem with this person a mass murderer having 42 guns? do they think its ok to own so many semi automatics?
Why do you need even 1 automatic or semi automatic weapon? What's the point. Most Gun owners say it is either for personal protection, or for hunting. Unless you are defending your home from a platoon of army rangers, why would you need guns like that?
Quote from: AZOffaly on October 05, 2017, 09:12:57 AM
Why do you need even 1 automatic or semi automatic weapon? What's the point. Most Gun owners say it is either for personal protection, or for hunting. Unless you are defending your home from a platoon of army rangers, why would you need guns like that?
Exactly.
While i don't agree with it, i can accept the argument for handguns for personal protection etc, or rifles for hunting or what ever, but there is absolutely NO reason for Joe public to need a automatic weapon that is designed to kill as many people as possible.
I cant get my head around the arguments people put forward against ANY sort of gun control what-so ever. A seriously fcuked up mentality
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 05, 2017, 09:02:33 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2017, 07:28:15 AM
It's not guns that kill people, it's the person using it, that's the line the NRA are using and they are sticking to it! No budging from it either, treat the person not the tool
Did NRA see any problem with this person a mass murderer having 42 guns? do they think its ok to own so many semi automatics?
That argument was put to the one interview I watched and his comeback was, he was a collector of guns like a person would collect cars!! You can't argue with that type of person.
And to drive a car you need a licence!
Some quite good points.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4
It was wonderful?? Really?!!
f**king hell!!
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 05, 2017, 06:37:51 AM
As apparently I have to do in Dublin, according to you. But as I said again and again, it's not about numbers, it's about how and why you used them, and why you chose to inject race into this discussion. Something you did and still refuse to answer for.
My country, right or wrong, eh whitey?
Stats prove that a large percentage of murders occur in very specific areas. Low or no murders occur in many other parts of the country
Stats prove that many of those killed have rap sheets as long as your arm...ie violent career criminals....just like your buddies the Hutchs and the Kinahans
So im sure the murder and gun death stats for law abiding people who live ourside of high crime areas is significantly lower than some of the nonsense being posted on here
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 11:50:15 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 05, 2017, 06:37:51 AM
As apparently I have to do in Dublin, according to you. But as I said again and again, it's not about numbers, it's about how and why you used them, and why you chose to inject race into this discussion. Something you did and still refuse to answer for.
My country, right or wrong, eh whitey?
Stats prove that a large percentage of murders occur in very specific areas. Low or no murders occur in many other parts of the country
Stats prove that many of those killed have rap sheets as long as your arm...ie violent career criminals....just like your buddies the Hutchs and the Kinahans
So im sure the murder and gun death stats for law abiding people who live ourside of high crime areas is significantly lower than some of the nonsense being posted on here
The people in those areas don't matter. Whether you realise it or not, that's what you are saying.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2017, 03:45:28 PM
The silencer bill also includes a provision to make it easier to buy armour piercing bullets :o
I saw that, what the hell are these morons thinking???
Quote from: stew on October 05, 2017, 11:54:53 AM
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 03, 2017, 03:45:28 PM
The silencer bill also includes a provision to make it easier to buy armour piercing bullets :o
I saw that, what the hell are these morons thinking???
You never can tell when you want sneak up on a herd of those armour clad mountain deer.
Quote from: J70 on October 03, 2017, 02:27:15 PM
Quote from: stew on October 03, 2017, 12:35:33 PM
Clinton has come out and demanded the silencer bill be defeated! I did not know the NRA in congress were trying to get this bill passed, I hope they get it shoved up their collective arses, she is 100% right but as usual she has a clear ulterior motive, nevertheless, well done for highlighting the fact arseholes think it a good idea to be able to subdue rapid gunfire.
They are saying this is the largest loss of American life in American history, tell that to the people who got slaughtered at wounded knee!
Finally, a CNN bigshot posted that she wasnt upset that so many lost their lives because the crowd were mostly repugs and Republicans so who the F**K cares basically, they quite rightly fired her stupid ass.
You just can't help yourself! 😄
What's Clinton's "clear ulterior motive"?
I think they're talking about the largest, civilian mass shooting.
Wounded Knee was US Army on official duty. Utterly shameful, but they were carrying out government policy, reprehensible as it was.
Clinton wanted to score political points at a time when that was the last thing people needed to hear, it only helped solidify the fact that she will lower herself to any extent as long as she remains relevant, is
that clear enough for you?
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 05, 2017, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 11:50:15 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 05, 2017, 06:37:51 AM
As apparently I have to do in Dublin, according to you. But as I said again and again, it's not about numbers, it's about how and why you used them, and why you chose to inject race into this discussion. Something you did and still refuse to answer for.
My country, right or wrong, eh whitey?
Stats prove that a large percentage of murders occur in very specific areas. Low or no murders occur in many other parts of the country
Stats prove that many of those killed have rap sheets as long as your arm...ie violent career criminals....just like your buddies the Hutchs and the Kinahans
So im sure the murder and gun death stats for law abiding people who live ourside of high crime areas is significantly lower than some of the nonsense being posted on here
The people in those areas don't matter. Whether you realise it or not, that's what you are saying.
No...statistics tend be mainpulated by people who have an agenda. I am pointing out that National crime and gun statistics dont paint a complete picture.
It started off with me responding to someone implying that the average American was armed to the teeth......In my state Massachusetts 85% of people dont even own a gun, so the average for the entire country is absolutely meaningless for the 6.8 million people who live here.
I can kind of understand what Whitey is trying to say here (i think)
Its like saying Ireland has a problem with gang violence and giving the statistics for gangland killings.
When in truth, Dublin has a problem with gang violence , those statistics have little bearing on the lives of someone who lives in rural monaghan for example.
That said, that doesn't mean we should do anything about reducing gang violence in dublin.
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 12:00:42 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 05, 2017, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 11:50:15 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 05, 2017, 06:37:51 AM
As apparently I have to do in Dublin, according to you. But as I said again and again, it's not about numbers, it's about how and why you used them, and why you chose to inject race into this discussion. Something you did and still refuse to answer for.
My country, right or wrong, eh whitey?
Stats prove that a large percentage of murders occur in very specific areas. Low or no murders occur in many other parts of the country
Stats prove that many of those killed have rap sheets as long as your arm...ie violent career criminals....just like your buddies the Hutchs and the Kinahans
So im sure the murder and gun death stats for law abiding people who live ourside of high crime areas is significantly lower than some of the nonsense being posted on here
The people in those areas don't matter. Whether you realise it or not, that's what you are saying.
No...statistics tend be mainpulated by people who have an agenda. I am pointing out that National crime and gun statistics dont paint a complete picture.
It started off with me responding to someone implying that the average American was armed to the teeth......In my state Massachusetts 85% of people dont even own a gun, so the average for the entire country is absolutely meaningless for the 6.8 million people who live here.
On that we can agree.
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on October 05, 2017, 12:11:55 PM
I can kind of understand what Whitey is trying to say here (i think)
Its like saying Ireland has a problem with gang violence and giving the statistics for gangland killings.
When in truth, Dublin has a problem with gang violence , those statistics have little bearing on the lives of someone who lives in rural monaghan for example.
That said, that doesn't mean we should do anything about reducing gang violence in dublin.
Yeah and it's not like the Irish Government are making it easier for them by letting the gang members buy guns and ammo in the local Superquinn!!
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on October 05, 2017, 12:11:55 PM
I can kind of understand what Whitey is trying to say here (i think)
Its like saying Ireland has a problem with gang violence and giving the statistics for gangland killings.
When in truth, Dublin has a problem with gang violence , those statistics have little bearing on the lives of someone who lives in rural monaghan for example.
That said, that doesn't mean we should do anything about reducing gang violence in dublin.
People with mental illness on Ireland do not have access to semi automatic weapons. You can go to a concert in Ireland knowing you will not be mowed down. Whitey's argument ignores this.
https://www.ft.com/content/f81c6202-a8bd-11e7-ab55-27219df83c97
"As well as some long-range sights attached to rifles, he had fitted 12 of his firearms with "bump fire stocks", ATF investigators said — attachments that simulate the rapid bursts of a fully automatic rifle. Bump stocks are relatively cheap, costing around $100, and are legal under Nevada law. "
Why are bump stocks legal? Why would anyone need one ?
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2017, 12:42:13 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/f81c6202-a8bd-11e7-ab55-27219df83c97
"As well as some long-range sights attached to rifles, he had fitted 12 of his firearms with "bump fire stocks", ATF investigators said — attachments that simulate the rapid bursts of a fully automatic rifle. Bump stocks are relatively cheap, costing around $100, and are legal under Nevada law. "
Why are bump stocks legal? Why would anyone need one ?
Automatic weapons are, for the most part, banned, yet you can legally buy a device which turns your semiauto into an automatic.
But...but... constitution... second amendment... government tyranny... good guy with gun... only the criminals will have bumpstocks...
Quote from: J70 on October 05, 2017, 01:03:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on October 05, 2017, 12:42:13 PM
https://www.ft.com/content/f81c6202-a8bd-11e7-ab55-27219df83c97
"As well as some long-range sights attached to rifles, he had fitted 12 of his firearms with "bump fire stocks", ATF investigators said — attachments that simulate the rapid bursts of a fully automatic rifle. Bump stocks are relatively cheap, costing around $100, and are legal under Nevada law. "
Why are bump stocks legal? Why would anyone need one ?
Automatic weapons are, for the most part, banned, yet you can legally buy a device which turns your semiauto into an automatic.
But...but... constitution... second amendment... government tyranny... good guy with gun... only the criminals will have bumpstocks...
And....is there anything to be said for another prayer....
Guns are tied up with GOP power. It doesn't matter about MA where Whitey lives. The issue is in red states where the NRA organises. It is tied up with Fox and GOP radio. Guns have been a rallying cry for the people who betray voters for over 40 years. They get people excited about rights while they pauperise them in real life.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/16/americans-gun-control-newtown-editorial
"Vested interests have managed to dilute relatively sensible gun control laws dating from the middle of the 20th century and to put in their place a deeply dubious claim that the US constitution confers a right of individual gun ownership. This claim has now been upheld twice by the conservative majority in the US supreme court. The net effect has been to create a generation of legislative pessimists. Today's US politicians see no prospect of getting even quite moderate and sensible laws like a new assault weapon ban through Congress. They fear the money and campaign power of a gun lobby which said at the weekend that the Newtown massacre could have been avoided if teachers had been armed and able to shoot back in the classroom.
America's tragedy is that this lockdown on serious debate actually coincides with a decline in the proportion of Americans with guns. Only one in five Americans has a gun, yet on guns the minority overrules the majority. If Mr Obama can change the culture after Newtown he will have done something very important. But don't hold your breath. Mad men with guns will always be a danger, whatever the gun laws. But modern America still seems to lack the will to make even modest regulatory changes, let alone to confront a real and growing danger to the health and survival of significant numbers of its young people."
When the Martians or the Zombies arrive the US will be the safest place on the planet.
The biggest problem in my view is that there's such disparities in gun laws from state to state.
IL has some of the strictest gun laws, but go 10 minutes outside Chicago and you're in Indiana which has some of the loosest laws....I read that you can buy a gun at a yard sale in Texas, no I'd....no background check
The crazy thing is that in spite of all the guns the murder rate is actually close to half what it was twenty years ago
BTW....did anyone see this video. I thought it was a joke, but it's real
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5H3JibnlNEc
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 12:00:42 PM
In my state Massachusetts 85% of people dont even own a gun,
Did you hear what you just said there? That means 15% of people own a gun. You don't think that's a bit of a high number? When you lived in Ireland how many people did you know who owned a gun? Was it as high as 1%?
Quote from: screenexile on October 05, 2017, 12:14:22 PM
Quote from: blewuporstuffed on October 05, 2017, 12:11:55 PM
I can kind of understand what Whitey is trying to say here (i think)
Its like saying Ireland has a problem with gang violence and giving the statistics for gangland killings.
When in truth, Dublin has a problem with gang violence , those statistics have little bearing on the lives of someone who lives in rural monaghan for example.
That said, that doesn't mean we should do anything about reducing gang violence in dublin.
Yeah and it's not like the Irish Government are making it easier for them by letting the gang members buy guns and ammo in the local Superquinn!!
The gangsters are starting early...
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/09/30/toddler-shootings-guns/
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 12:00:42 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 05, 2017, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 11:50:15 AM
Quote from: easytiger95 on October 05, 2017, 06:37:51 AM
As apparently I have to do in Dublin, according to you. But as I said again and again, it's not about numbers, it's about how and why you used them, and why you chose to inject race into this discussion. Something you did and still refuse to answer for.
My country, right or wrong, eh whitey?
Stats prove that a large percentage of murders occur in very specific areas. Low or no murders occur in many other parts of the country
Stats prove that many of those killed have rap sheets as long as your arm...ie violent career criminals....just like your buddies the Hutchs and the Kinahans
So im sure the murder and gun death stats for law abiding people who live ourside of high crime areas is significantly lower than some of the nonsense being posted on here
The people in those areas don't matter. Whether you realise it or not, that's what you are saying.
No...statistics tend be mainpulated by people who have an agenda. I am pointing out that National crime and gun statistics dont paint a complete picture.
It started off with me responding to someone implying that the average American was armed to the teeth......In my state Massachusetts 85% of people dont even own a gun, so the average for the entire country is absolutely meaningless for the 6.8 million people who live here.
Inner city gang violence, drugs etc, career criminals.... compared to other wealthy countries take all that out and there's still a major problem so not sure why you are trying to deflect the conversation so much.
https://everytownresearch.org/documents/2017/07/gun-laws-violence-women-infographic.pdf
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2017, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 12:00:42 PM
In my state Massachusetts 85% of people dont even own a gun,
Did you hear what you just said there? That means 15% of people own a gun. You don't think that's a bit of a high number? When you lived in Ireland how many people did you know who owned a gun? Was it as high as 1%?
I made the decision to live in a country where owning firearms is legal
I choose to live in a state in that country that constantly ranks near dead last in terms of gun ownership
In that state state the gun murder rate for my demographic-white male- is consistently the lowest in the country and a fraction on the (infamous) national average
Finally, I choose to live in a town in that state where between 500-600 people are licensed to own a firearm, yet there hasn't been a single murder here in decades.
Meanwhile the town I grew up in, which you rightly pointed out has probably< 1% gun ownership, there have been 6 murders in the last 10 years
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2017, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 12:00:42 PM
In my state Massachusetts 85% of people dont even own a gun,
Did you hear what you just said there? That means 15% of people own a gun. You don't think that's a bit of a high number? When you lived in Ireland how many people did you know who owned a gun? Was it as high as 1%?
He lives in a country where any adult can buy guns on the high st and ammo in Walmart. With that in mind 15% seems moderate. If the same gun purchase laws applied in Ireland do you think gun ownership would be 1%?
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 09:48:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2017, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 12:00:42 PM
In my state Massachusetts 85% of people dont even own a gun,
Did you hear what you just said there? That means 15% of people own a gun. You don't think that's a bit of a high number? When you lived in Ireland how many people did you know who owned a gun? Was it as high as 1%?
I made the decision to live in a country where owning firearms is legal
I choose to live in a state in that country that constantly ranks near dead last in terms of gun ownership
In that state state the gun murder rate for my demographic-white male- is consistently the lowest in the country and a fraction on the (infamous) national average
Finally, I choose to live in a town in that state where between 500-600 people are licensed to own a firearm, yet there hasn't been a single murder here in decades.
Meanwhile the town I grew up in, which you rightly pointed out has probably< 1% gun ownership, there have been 6 murders in the last 10 years
Most people tumble into towns and states based on jobs, friends, significant other, quality of schools, affordable housing.
Fair play to you for having the luxury to be so dialed in on gun laws and have that at the top of the pecking order. Never a dull moment.
Quote from: under the bar on October 05, 2017, 10:36:54 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2017, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 12:00:42 PM
In my state Massachusetts 85% of people dont even own a gun,
Did you hear what you just said there? That means 15% of people own a gun. You don't think that's a bit of a high number? When you lived in Ireland how many people did you know who owned a gun? Was it as high as 1%?
He lives in a country where any adult can buy guns on the high st and ammo in Walmart. With that in mind 15% seems moderate. If the same gun purchase laws applied in Ireland do you think gun ownership would be 1%?
Congratulations - that's the whole f**king point!
Its a pity you didnt choose a discussion board in your own new country, -there must be little to do when u always on here!!! Oh and the town i live in there been no murders in 10yrs so again whats u point??
Would banning the sale of ammo; increase the cost of gun licenses, increase tariffs on gun purchases; affect the 2nd amendment right to bear arms it talks about arms not ammo@@!you got to remember in 1791 slavery was still allowed; guns/arms were single fire muskets; we were 60yrs of the gatling gun; texas was still Mexico; the wild west was still the wild west! but no; people cant see common sense and demand a right 220+yrs out of date!
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 05, 2017, 11:04:09 PM
Its a pity you didnt choose a discussion board in your own new country, -there must be little to do when u always on here!!! Oh and the town i live in there been no murders in 10yrs so again whats u point??
When I see people posting shite on here that they know nothing about, I feel compelled to correct them. Its a great release from a stressful job to have a little fun
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on October 05, 2017, 11:14:46 PM
Would banning the sale of ammo; increase the cost of gun licenses,
Ive no clue.
Would or could ammo become underground and be easily home made?
If it could it could just make matters worse. More ammo available at a lower quality.
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 09:48:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2017, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 12:00:42 PM
In my state Massachusetts 85% of people dont even own a gun,
Did you hear what you just said there? That means 15% of people own a gun. You don't think that's a bit of a high number? When you lived in Ireland how many people did you know who owned a gun? Was it as high as 1%?
I made the decision to live in a country where owning firearms is legal
I choose to live in a state in that country that constantly ranks near dead last in terms of gun ownership
In that state state the gun murder rate for my demographic-white male- is consistently the lowest in the country and a fraction on the (infamous) national average
Finally, I choose to live in a town in that state where between 500-600 people are licensed to own a firearm, yet there hasn't been a single murder here in decades.
Meanwhile the town I grew up in, which you rightly pointed out has probably< 1% gun ownership, there have been 6 murders in the last 10 years
The town you live in is richer than the town you grew up in .
Murder rates in the US are 4x Irish rates so your anecdote cannot be generalised.
Any details on the 6 people murdered? What groups did they belong to?
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2017, 01:13:34 AM
When I see people posting shite on here that they know nothing about, I feel compelled to correct them. Its a great release from a stressful job to have a little fun
Bollocks, you either a) feel compelled to post your own vitriolic shite that you know nothing about either, or b) you are on one of the best long term wind ups on this board.
my money's on a).
just because you live in the states doesn't qualify you to spout. 48% of americans think the civil war was about states rights. 56% believe vaccines cause autism. 25% believe the sun goes round the earth, 77% believe in angels.
Quote from: heganboy on October 06, 2017, 02:45:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2017, 01:13:34 AM
When I see people posting shite on here that they know nothing about, I feel compelled to correct them. Its a great release from a stressful job to have a little fun
Bollocks, you either a) feel compelled to post your own vitriolic shite that you know nothing about either, or b) you are on one of the best long term wind ups on this board.
my money's on a).
just because you live in the states doesn't qualify you to spout. 48% of americans think the civil war was about states rights. 56% believe vaccines cause autism. 25% believe the sun goes round the earth, 77% believe in angels.
I blame Abba
https://youtu.be/aGFznuoHH50
Quote from: heganboy on October 06, 2017, 02:45:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2017, 01:13:34 AM
When I see people posting shite on here that they know nothing about, I feel compelled to correct them. Its a great release from a stressful job to have a little fun
Bollocks, you either a) feel compelled to post your own vitriolic shite that you know nothing about either, or b) you are on one of the best long term wind ups on this board.
my money's on a).
just because you live in the states doesn't qualify you to spout. 48% of americans think the civil war was about states rights. 56% believe vaccines cause autism. 25% believe the sun goes round the earth, 77% believe in angels.
So opinions that are outside the tripe that you're spoon fed by the like of CNN are vitriolic shite?
Interesting.....have you organized any book burnings recently?
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2017, 05:16:24 PM
Quote from: heganboy on October 06, 2017, 02:45:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2017, 01:13:34 AM
When I see people posting shite on here that they know nothing about, I feel compelled to correct them. Its a great release from a stressful job to have a little fun
Bollocks, you either a) feel compelled to post your own vitriolic shite that you know nothing about either, or b) you are on one of the best long term wind ups on this board.
my money's on a).
just because you live in the states doesn't qualify you to spout. 48% of americans think the civil war was about states rights. 56% believe vaccines cause autism. 25% believe the sun goes round the earth, 77% believe in angels.
What studies are you basing your information on?
If you believe in God you believe in Angels, simples!
So opinions that are outside the tripe that you're spoon fed by the like of CNN are vitriolic shite?
Interesting.....have you organized any book burnings recently?
Quote from: heganboy on October 06, 2017, 02:45:19 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 06, 2017, 01:13:34 AM
When I see people posting shite on here that they know nothing about, I feel compelled to correct them. Its a great release from a stressful job to have a little fun
Bollocks, you either a) feel compelled to post your own vitriolic shite that you know nothing about either, or b) you are on one of the best long term wind ups on this board.
my money's on a).
just because you live in the states doesn't qualify you to spout. 48% of americans think the civil war was about states rights. 56% believe vaccines cause autism. 25% believe the sun goes round the earth, 77% believe in angels.
Just curious, what are your thoughts on why the American Civil War was fought?
https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000005473328/las-vegas-shooting-timeline-12-bursts.html?smid=tw-share
Chilling stuff.
I went to school with the Vegas shooter
Friday, October 13, 2017
By Greg Palast
[Los Angeles] When we were at Francis Polytechnic High in Sun Valley, Steve Paddock and I were required to take electrical shop class. At Poly and our junior high, we were required to take metal shop so we could work the drill presses at the GM plant. We took drafting. Drafting like in "blueprint drawing."
Paddock. Palast. We sat next to each other at those drafting tables with our triangular rulers and #2 pencils so we could get jobs at Lockheed as draftsmen drawing blueprints of fighter jets. Or do tool-and-dye cutting to make refrigerator handles at GM where they assembled Frigidaire refrigerators and Chevys.
But we weren't going to fly the fighter jets. Somewhere at Phillips Andover Academy, a dumbbell with an oil well for a daddy was going to go to Yale and then fly our fighter jets over Texas. We weren't going to go to Yale. We were going to go to Vietnam. Then, when we came back, if we still had two hands, we went to GM or Lockheed.
(It's no coincidence that much of the student population at our school was Hispanic.)
But if you went to "Bevvie" - Beverly Hills High - or Hollywood High, you didn't take metal shop. You took Advanced Placement French. You took Advanced Placement Calculus. We didn't have Advanced Placement French. We didn't have French anything. We weren't Placed, and we didn't Advance.
Steve was a math wizard. He should have gone to UCLA, to Stanford. But our classes didn't qualify him for anything other than LA Valley College and Cal State Northridge. Any dumbbell could get in. And it was nearly free. That's where Steve was expected to go, and he went with his big math-whiz brain. And then Steve went to Lockheed, like we were supposed to. Until Lockheed shut down plants in 1988. Steve left, took the buy-out.
And after NAFTA, GM closed too.
Land of Opportunity? Well, tell me: who gets those opportunities?
Some of you can and some of you can't imagine a life where you just weren't give a fair chance. Where the smarter you are, the more painful it gets, because you have your face pressed against the window, watching THEM. THEY got the connections to Stanford. THEY get the gold mine. WE get the shaft.
This is where Paddock and Palast were bred: Sun Valley, the anus of Los Angeles. Literally. It's where the sewerage plant is. It's in a trench below the Hollywood Hills, where the smog settles into a kind of puke yellow soup. Here's where LA dumps its urine and the losers they only remember when they need cheap labor and cheap soldiers when the gusanos don't supply enough from Mexico.
I'll take you to Sun Valley. It's in my film, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy. In the movie, a kind of dream scene, the actress Shailene Woodley takes me back to my family's old busted home in the weeds and then down San Fernando Road, near Steve's place. Take a look, America. Along the tracks that once led in to the GM plant, you see a bunch of campers that the union men bought for vacations. Now they live in them.
No, Steve's brain was too big to end up on the tracks. He lived in empty apartments in crappy buildings he bought, then in a barren tract house outside Reno. I laugh when they say he was "rich." He wanted to be THEM, to have their stuff. He got close.
It's reported that Steve was a "professional gambler." That's another laugh. He was addicted to numbing his big brain by sitting 14 hours a day in the dark in front of video poker machines. He was a loser. Have you ever met a gambler who said they were a Professional Loser?
It's fair to ask me: Why didn't I end up in a hotel room with a bump-stock AR-15 and 5,000 rounds of high velocity bullets?
Because I have a job, a career, an OBSESSION: to hunt down THEM, the daddy-pampered pricks who did this to us, the grinning billionaire jackals that make a profit off the slow decomposition of the lives I grew up with.
But I'm telling you, that I know it's a very fine line, and lots of crazy luck, that divided my path from Paddock's.
Dear Reader: The publication that pulled this story at the last moment was plain scared — that they'd be accused of approving murder.
Paddock slaughtered good people, coldly, with intense cruelty, destroying lives and hundreds of families forever. If you think I'm making up some excuse for him, then I give up.
But also this: The editor of the Beverly Hills-based publication, a Stanford grad, could not understand that, just like veterans of the Vietnam war who suffer from PTSD even today, so too, losers of the class war can be driven mad by a PTSD that lingers, that gnaws away, their whole lives.
What happens to a dream deferred? Does it ...fester like a sore? Does it stink like rotten meat? Sag...like a heavy load?
Or does it explode?
Steve, you created more horrors than your cornered life could ever justify.
But, I just have to tell you, Steve: I get it.
Shock horror
QuoteThree Weeks After Vegas, Bump Stock Ban Is Effectively Dead
Three weeks after the deadliest mass shooting in modern American history, efforts to pass even scaled-down gun-control legislation have effectively stalled on Capitol Hill.
Congressional aides and issue advocates say they see no viable path for passing even the most promising bill: an effort to ban the manufacturing and sale of bump stocks, which were used by the Las Vegas shooter to essentially turn his semi-automatic weapons into fully automatics ones.
"Depressing but not surprising," is how one senior House Democratic aide put it.
"It's pathetic," said another.
The failure of lawmakers to move bump stock legislation comes despite the willingness of several House Republicans to sign on to the measure. A bill introduced by Reps. Carlos Curbelo (R-FL) and Seth Moulton (D-MA) has 20 co-sponsors in total—ten Democratic and ten Republican. But aides say that there is no indication that the House Judiciary Committee is going to consider that bill, or a similar one signed by 173 Democrats. Democrats are expected to ask the Committee's chairman, Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), to address the matter in the week ahead.
Prospects look bleak in the Senate too. Sen. Dianne Feinstein's (D-CA) bill banning bump stocks has 39 Democratic co-sponsors but not one Republican, though an aide said that she is still hopeful that she can convince one to sign on to the measure. Even were she to find a GOP co-sponsor there is no guarantee that the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Chuck Grassley (R-IA), would bring the bill up for consideration.
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on October 24, 2017, 10:47:15 PM
Shock horror
QuoteThree Weeks After Vegas, Bump Stock Ban Is Effectively Dead
Three weeks after the deadliest mass shooting in modern American history, efforts to pass even scaled-down gun-control legislation have effectively stalled on Capitol Hill.
Congressional aides and issue advocates say they see no viable path for passing even the most promising bill: an effort to ban the manufacturing and sale of bump stocks, which were used by the Las Vegas shooter to essentially turn his semi-automatic weapons into fully automatics ones.
"Depressing but not surprising," is how one senior House Democratic aide put it.
"It's pathetic," said another.
The failure of lawmakers to move bump stock legislation comes despite the willingness of several House Republicans to sign on to the measure. A bill introduced by Reps. Carlos Curbelo (R-FL) and Seth Moulton (D-MA) has 20 co-sponsors in total—ten Democratic and ten Republican. But aides say that there is no indication that the House Judiciary Committee is going to consider that bill, or a similar one signed by 173 Democrats. Democrats are expected to ask the Committee's chairman, Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), to address the matter in the week ahead.
Prospects look bleak in the Senate too. Sen. Dianne Feinstein's (D-CA) bill banning bump stocks has 39 Democratic co-sponsors but not one Republican, though an aide said that she is still hopeful that she can convince one to sign on to the measure. Even were she to find a GOP co-sponsor there is no guarantee that the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Chuck Grassley (R-IA), would bring the bill up for consideration.
But the important thing is that thoughts and prayers are offered and the issue is not discussed in the days following such an atrocity. That is not the time.
Neither is now, apparently.
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 09:48:36 PM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 05, 2017, 06:16:30 PM
Quote from: whitey on October 05, 2017, 12:00:42 PM
In my state Massachusetts 85% of people dont even own a gun,
Did you hear what you just said there? That means 15% of people own a gun. You don't think that's a bit of a high number? When you lived in Ireland how many people did you know who owned a gun? Was it as high as 1%?
I made the decision to live in a country where owning firearms is legal
I choose to live in a state in that country that constantly ranks near dead last in terms of gun ownership
In that state state the gun murder rate for my demographic-white male- is consistently the lowest in the country and a fraction on the (infamous) national average
Finally, I choose to live in a town in that state where between 500-600 people are licensed to own a firearm, yet there hasn't been a single murder here in decades.
Meanwhile the town I grew up in, which you rightly pointed out has probably< 1% gun ownership, there have been 6 murders in the last 10 years
Your anecdotal observations are noted.
My question was about the level of gun ownership. Do you not think that 15% of people owning guns is a lot of people owning guns? You don't think it's a high number?