Brexit.

[Hardy]

Unfortunately, it'll take much more hard evidence battering the head of the average - thick as a 6" block... laid across the footing - english voter for much longer than is possible to get it into their unbelievably dense skulls, that maybe, just maybe, leaving the EU and allowing the clowns at Westminster to negotiate deals with the rest of the world while deliberately moving away from the* most wealthy trading block on the planet at their doorstep is not a good idea.


*if its not the most wealthy, its the 2nd most wealthy to China.

And Welsh. Again, on C4 news this evening, a father of an Airbus worker said he voted 'Leave' and would do so again. "I didn't vote for my son" he said. Nothing short of flabbergasting.

It's flabbergasting but it's nothing new that people are fooled into voting directly against their interests. It's just getting worse as the liars get better and better at gulling the gullible.

[GJL]

Unfortunately, it'll take much more hard evidence battering the head of the average - thick as a 6" block... laid across the footing - english voter for much longer than is possible to get it into their unbelievably dense skulls, that maybe, just maybe, leaving the EU and allowing the clowns at Westminster to negotiate deals with the rest of the world while deliberately moving away from the* most wealthy trading block on the planet at their doorstep is not a good idea.


*if its not the most wealthy, its the 2nd most wealthy to China.

And Welsh. Again, on C4 news this evening, a father of an Airbus worker said he voted 'Leave' and would do so again. "I didn't vote for my son" he said. Nothing short of flabbergasting.

It's flabbergasting but it's nothing new that people are fooled into voting directly against their interests. It's just getting worse as the liars get better and better at gulling the gullible.

What ever is promoted on the front of the red top rags is what will get voted for by a high number of people who have not got the brains to think for themselves.

[sid waddell]

Unfortunately, it'll take much more hard evidence battering the head of the average - thick as a 6" block... laid across the footing - english voter for much longer than is possible to get it into their unbelievably dense skulls, that maybe, just maybe, leaving the EU and allowing the clowns at Westminster to negotiate deals with the rest of the world while deliberately moving away from the* most wealthy trading block on the planet at their doorstep is not a good idea.


*if its not the most wealthy, its the 2nd most wealthy to China.

And Welsh. Again, on C4 news this evening, a father of an Airbus worker said he voted 'Leave' and would do so again. "I didn't vote for my son" he said. Nothing short of flabbergasting.

It's flabbergasting but it's nothing new that people are fooled into voting directly against their interests. It's just getting worse as the liars get better and better at gulling the gullible.

"Marketplace of ideas"

[omaghjoe]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/23/dysons-move-shows-thatcherite-dream-free-market-brexit-dying/

Dyson's move shows that the Thatcherite dream of a free-market Brexit is dying
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Allister Heath
23 January 2019 • 9:00pm
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What was Sir James Dyson thinking? The decision by Britain's most successful pro-Brexit entrepreneur to choose such an inopportune moment to relocate the HQ of his eponymous empire to Singapore is a gift to the Remainer establishment.
Symbolism is what matters in politics: the fact that only two employees are moving, and that Dyson is continuing to invest vast amounts in the UK, will go unnoticed. His critics will only remember that he is engineering his very own Dysexit, and the Leavers now have one fewer entrepreneur at their disposal to make the bullish case for post-Brexit Britain.
Yet while the "optics" are bad – and Sir James maintains in our business pages that the move has nothing to do with Brexit – he is being ruthlessly consistent. The vision of Leave-supporting entrepreneurs like him came in two parts: a radical break with the EU, including single market regulations, and for the UK to rebuild its economy by encouraging wealth-creation.
Two-and-a-half years after the referendum, the chances of getting either are receding: under Theresa May's deal, even shorn of the backstop, we would remain subject to all kinds of heavy-handed rules. With the chances of a retro-socialist Jeremy Corbyn government also rising, Dyson must have felt compelled to take matters into his own hands.
He isn't leaving because he's changed his mind on the desirability of a real Brexit. He isn't leaving because his firm would be damaged: the impact of no deal would be trivial given the location of his markets and production facilities. He isn't relocating to the EU, or Norway: he isn't seeking to remain part of the single market, let alone the customs union. He is moving his HQ to Singapore, that low-tax, ultra competitive, pro-business city-state, the one place Remainers desperately say they don't want the UK to become.
Yes, Singapore recently signed a trade deal with the EU, and Dyson was already planning to build his electric car there. But it's ridiculously Eurocentric to obsess about one deal with the EU. Dyson will be selling cars all over the world from Singapore, and in some cases will face barriers. Yet the attractiveness of the country swamps everything else.
If they had any sense, the Tories would respond to Dyson's decision by concluding that we are not Brexiting in a radical enough way and that the chances of a Corbyn government are now too high to ignore. It is an indictment not of Brexit itself but of how it is being ruined by those entrusted with implementing it.
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I don't know of a single pro-Brexit business leader who is anything but despondent: they are aghast at Mrs May's dithering, at the amateurishness of her dealings with the EU, at her almost deliberate talking down of the economy. They can barely believe how the Treasury and other powerful Remain forces have failed to lay the grounds for no deal, how they have done nothing to cut taxes or to bolster competitiveness, how they still maintain that all of our regulations are perfect, and how a once in 50 year opportunity to engineer an economic renaissance is being squandered.
All are increasingly worried that we could be about to face a Corbyn government determined to confiscate swathes of corporate Britain, aided and abetted by rebel Tory MPs, the Government's betrayal of Brexit voters and its pathetic inability to make the case for capitalism. Yet none of these entrepreneurs has suddenly embraced Remain. They are bearish on the UK because their dream of a rejuvenated, free-trading Britain is dying, sabotaged by an establishment in denial about the need for Britain to adopt an economic model fit for a globalised world.
It is not just Brexiteers who believe the UK is becoming uncompetitive. Gopichand Hinduja, a Remainer whose family controls a £20.6 billion fortune, thinks taxes are driving people away. "There used to be a lot of ease of doing business," he says. "Now, with changes in tax – doms, non-doms – they have made so many complications that people don't even know what returns they have to file," he told the Sunday Telegraph. "I have found many of my rich friends – billionaires – have left London and become residents either in Dubai or Singapore or Lebanon." 
The tragic reality is that the free-market, low-tax Brexit backed by Thatcherites and libertarians no longer appears to be a likely outcome of the machinations of the next few weeks. If we do technically leave the EU, it will probably be through an adulterated variant of Mrs May's dour, pessimistic, useless deal, one that means we end up saddled with much of the EU's acquis communautaire. It will be a case of more managed decline, Eurozone-style. 
In her Bruges speech, Lady Thatcher grounded her opposition to political integration in her support for individual freedom, bottom-up decision-making and free-markets. "Just when those countries such as the Soviet Union, which have tried to run everything from the centre, are learning that success depends on dispersing power and decisions [...], there are some in the Community who seem to want to move in the opposite direction. We have not successfully rolled back the frontiers of the state in Britain, only to see them re-imposed at a European level."
These words launched a thousand Eurosceptic vessels: from that day on, most British free-marketeers became increasingly anti-EU; without that movement, the referendum would never have been called. If you want to know what could have been had the right people taken power after June 2016, rewatch Martin Durkin's brilliant Brexit: The Movie. The documentary was shared like a modern-day Samizdat prior to the referendum; it didn't mention immigration once yet made an extraordinarily powerful case for the kind of capitalist Brexit that Thatcherites always dreamt of.
Is it all over? Or could we still end up with a radically liberalising Brexit, one that repositions Britain as an entrepot economy specialising in trade, technology, finance and science, a high-skilled hub that attracts wealth and talent to the UK, a link between East and West that encourages the next generation of Dysons to relocate to our shores, rather than flee them? Yes, of course – but then again I do believe in miracles.

that is completely laughable

No deal was about driving down wages by stripping out social protection, pensions, slashing taxes by killing the NHS and generating huge profits. Now the dream has died so Dyson fucked off to Singapore. That Telegraph article is quite significant imo

But then it was written by an expert so who are you to say he was wrong?
Seems like the Brits want to peruse the low corp-tax economy that the South has, you'd hardly begrudge them that now would ye?

[armaghniac]

But then it was written by an expert so who are you to say he was wrong?
Seems like the Brits want to peruse the low corp-tax economy that the South has, you'd hardly begrudge them that now would ye?

The Brexiteers do not want an economy like the south, they want low tax, no welfare, no standards. They know what they want, but do the yobs that voted for Brexit want this?

[BennyCake]

Unfortunately, it'll take much more hard evidence battering the head of the average - thick as a 6" block... laid across the footing - english voter for much longer than is possible to get it into their unbelievably dense skulls, that maybe, just maybe, leaving the EU and allowing the clowns at Westminster to negotiate deals with the rest of the world while deliberately moving away from the* most wealthy trading block on the planet at their doorstep is not a good idea.


*if its not the most wealthy, its the 2nd most wealthy to China.

And Welsh. Again, on C4 news this evening, a father of an Airbus worker said he voted 'Leave' and would do so again. "I didn't vote for my son" he said. Nothing short of flabbergasting.

It's flabbergasting but it's nothing new that people are fooled into voting directly against their interests. It's just getting worse as the liars get better and better at gulling the gullible.

What ever is promoted on the front of the red top rags is what will get voted for by a high number of people who have not got the brains to think for themselves.

Sectarian voting isn't any better. Voting for a party that doesn't have to lift a finger because they know they can rely on their own to vote them in again and again.

[seafoid]

Unfortunately, it'll take much more hard evidence battering the head of the average - thick as a 6" block... laid across the footing - english voter for much longer than is possible to get it into their unbelievably dense skulls, that maybe, just maybe, leaving the EU and allowing the clowns at Westminster to negotiate deals with the rest of the world while deliberately moving away from the* most wealthy trading block on the planet at their doorstep is not a good idea.


*if its not the most wealthy, its the 2nd most wealthy to China.

And Welsh. Again, on C4 news this evening, a father of an Airbus worker said he voted 'Leave' and would do so again. "I didn't vote for my son" he said. Nothing short of flabbergasting.

It's flabbergasting but it's nothing new that people are fooled into voting directly against their interests. It's just getting worse as the liars get better and better at gulling the gullible.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-theresa-may-leave-voters-remain-eu-referendum-campaign-deal-a8740526.html

[trailer]

Unfortunately, it'll take much more hard evidence battering the head of the average - thick as a 6" block... laid across the footing - english voter for much longer than is possible to get it into their unbelievably dense skulls, that maybe, just maybe, leaving the EU and allowing the clowns at Westminster to negotiate deals with the rest of the world while deliberately moving away from the* most wealthy trading block on the planet at their doorstep is not a good idea.


*if its not the most wealthy, its the 2nd most wealthy to China.

And Welsh. Again, on C4 news this evening, a father of an Airbus worker said he voted 'Leave' and would do so again. "I didn't vote for my son" he said. Nothing short of flabbergasting.

It's flabbergasting but it's nothing new that people are fooled into voting directly against their interests. It's just getting worse as the liars get better and better at gulling the gullible.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-theresa-may-leave-voters-remain-eu-referendum-campaign-deal-a8740526.html

In fairness that could apply to a lot of the politicians as well.
Electorate wise, NI is probably the worst for this blind ignorant voting.

[north_antrim_hound]

So after 400 odd pages is it fair to say that Brexit is a vehicle that expresses the ignorance of the electorate and maybe it's just history repeating itself.

"Elections belong to the people. It's their decision. If they decide to turn their back on the fire and burn their behinds, then they will just have to sit on their blisters." Abraham Lincoln

[sensethetone]

Channel 4 news and BBC both have broken down brexit terms for people to understand what they mean on their websites.

But people weren't thick when they voted at the referendum, they knew what they were voting for?

[RadioGAAGAA]

But people weren't thick when they voted at the referendum, they knew what they were voting for?

People are thick. They still don't have the slightest clue of the fallout of what they are voting for.

Right now - on 30th March - everything just stops when it gets to a border between UK and EU (and by extension, many other places too).

There are no arrangements, there are no staff to facilitate any arrangements, any staff that are recruited between now and then to man the border posts won't have a clue about the arrangements because they won't begin to be decided on till 11:59 the previous night.

Are there tariffs? Are they paid at the border or can they be paid via invoice? How much are the tariffs? Can people accompany the goods?

[sensethetone]

But people weren't thick when they voted at the referendum, they knew what they were voting for?

People are thick. They still don't have the slightest clue of the fallout of what they are voting for.

Right now - on 30th March - everything just stops when it gets to a border between UK and EU (and by extension, many other places too).

There are no arrangements, there are no staff to facilitate any arrangements, any staff that are recruited between now and then to man the border posts won't have a clue about the arrangements because they won't begin to be decided on till 11:59 the previous night.

Are there tariffs? Are they paid at the border or can they be paid via invoice? How much are the tariffs? Can people accompany the goods?

Exactly, have to laugh at the "we'll just work under WTO rules won't We" not a notion as to how much has to be imported for manufacturing to produce something to sell. Tariffs to be added twice on some parts, as sub assembly and a finished product.

[weareros]

Channel 4 news and BBC both have broken down brexit terms for people to understand what they mean on their websites.

But people weren't thick when they voted at the referendum, they knew what they were voting for?

Safe to say a fair few were voting against EU shaped bananas.

[johnnycool]

But people weren't thick when they voted at the referendum, they knew what they were voting for?

People are thick. They still don't have the slightest clue of the fallout of what they are voting for.

Right now - on 30th March - everything just stops when it gets to a border between UK and EU (and by extension, many other places too).

There are no arrangements, there are no staff to facilitate any arrangements, any staff that are recruited between now and then to man the border posts won't have a clue about the arrangements because they won't begin to be decided on till 11:59 the previous night.

Are there tariffs? Are they paid at the border or can they be paid via invoice? How much are the tariffs? Can people accompany the goods?

Exactly, have to laugh at the "we'll just work under WTO rules won't We" not a notion as to how much has to be imported for manufacturing to produce something to sell. Tariffs to be added twice on some parts, as sub assembly and a finished product.

The UK could chose to go tariff free under WTO, but then their home producers would be decimated;

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-are-the-options-for-the-irish-border-after-brexit


Hard line Brexiteers really need to be pushing for a UI to get their way.   

[Hardy]

Any time a Brexiter says 'WTO' have a little laugh and show them this.

And, if you want to be really cruel, this.