Syria

[magpie seanie]

You can't believe any of them to be frank.

[sid waddell]

Can anybody provide any reasoning they have as to why anything Russia says should be believed?

No but why believe Britain or America with their pasts  WMD?

Cool. So there is no reasoning for believing anything Russia says, except for whataboutery.

What about what the OPCW and the UN say? What about what EU countries say?

Should that be believed?

I'm trying to find some rationale for the bizarre rushing of some posters to always believe the Russian narrative, when pretty much all evidence of recent years suggests that anything Russia and its propaganda outlets say should be treated as a lie unless proven otherwise.

[sid waddell]

You can't believe any of them to be frank.

Lies tend to be found out in countries with a free press.

What institutions exist in Russia to expose government lies and hold them to account?

[magpie seanie]

You can't believe any of them to be frank.

Lies tend to be found out in countries with a free press.

What institutions exist in Russia to expose government lies and hold them to account?

I don't agree. There are many lies that governments peddle that are not proven otherwise. Who bombed Dublin and Monaghan in 1974 for example? Also - I'm not sure what you mean by a "free press".....do we have that in Ireland or in Britain or America? We may have the appearance of it but it's being worn away all the time. I know little about Russia, I'd have my doubts they do either.

I'm under no illusions that Russia is not to be trusted. I just realise the UK and USA aren't to be trusted either.

[sid waddell]

You can't believe any of them to be frank.

Lies tend to be found out in countries with a free press.

What institutions exist in Russia to expose government lies and hold them to account?

I don't agree. There are many lies that governments peddle that are not proven otherwise. Who bombed Dublin and Monaghan in 1974 for example? Also - I'm not sure what you mean by a "free press".....do we have that in Ireland or in Britain or America? We may have the appearance of it but it's being worn away all the time. I know little about Russia, I'd have my doubts they do either.

I'm under no illusions that Russia is not to be trusted. I just realise the UK and USA aren't to be trusted either.

In comparison to Russia, the press we have is indeed extremely free. That is very far from saying it is perfect or that there are not problems with it.

A democratic system does indeed have a happy knack of exposing lies.

Bloody Sunday, Hillsborough, Iraq, all lies, all exposed.

Could such lies have been exposed in Russia?

Why is Russia so keen to spread disinformation in the west?

False equivalence is a cancer in public discourse.

[magpie seanie]

You can't believe any of them to be frank.

Lies tend to be found out in countries with a free press.

What institutions exist in Russia to expose government lies and hold them to account?

I don't agree. There are many lies that governments peddle that are not proven otherwise. Who bombed Dublin and Monaghan in 1974 for example? Also - I'm not sure what you mean by a "free press".....do we have that in Ireland or in Britain or America? We may have the appearance of it but it's being worn away all the time. I know little about Russia, I'd have my doubts they do either.

I'm under no illusions that Russia is not to be trusted. I just realise the UK and USA aren't to be trusted either.

In comparison to Russia, the press we have is indeed extremely free. That is very far from saying it is perfect or that there are not problems with it.

A democratic system does indeed have a happy knack of exposing lies.

Bloody Sunday, Hillsborough, Iraq, all lies, all exposed.

Could such lies have been exposed in Russia?

Why is Russia so keen to spread disinformation in the west?

False equivalence is a cancer in public discourse.

Absolutely. So's groupthink and blind acceptance.

[Esmarelda]

Sid, although Russia is clearly a player in Syria, this thread is entitled "Syria". It was resurrected today and in two hours you've posted sevn posts and mentioned Russia nine times despite nobody else mentioning Russia, except in response to you.

There's little need for this thread to be turned into a You v Russia thread. There are others out there. It's clear; Russia can't be defended without whataboutery being used. Understood.

Does anyone, including Sid, have any reason or logic to believe why Assad would have committed this crime (without mentioning Russia)? Does anyone have any evidence that the crime happened? In the latter case, I've read reports that doctors reported casualties suffering from symptoms likely caused by a chemical attack. Conversely, I've read reports that hospitals have received no patients with these symptoms. Which should I believe and why?

Additionally, if Assad is 100% guilty of this alleged crime, does anyone think they should be attacked and to what end?

[Dougal Maguire]

It certainly stinks alright.
How soon before Israel "defends itself" by seizing a wipe of Syrian territory?

Another wipe. It already has taken the Golan Heights

[give her dixie]

Given their ties to Iran, Lebanon is ripe for an attack in any upcoming attacks on Syria

Especially by Israel or it's proxies

[sid waddell]

You can't believe any of them to be frank.

Lies tend to be found out in countries with a free press.

What institutions exist in Russia to expose government lies and hold them to account?

I don't agree. There are many lies that governments peddle that are not proven otherwise. Who bombed Dublin and Monaghan in 1974 for example? Also - I'm not sure what you mean by a "free press".....do we have that in Ireland or in Britain or America? We may have the appearance of it but it's being worn away all the time. I know little about Russia, I'd have my doubts they do either.

I'm under no illusions that Russia is not to be trusted. I just realise the UK and USA aren't to be trusted either.

In comparison to Russia, the press we have is indeed extremely free. That is very far from saying it is perfect or that there are not problems with it.

A democratic system does indeed have a happy knack of exposing lies.

Bloody Sunday, Hillsborough, Iraq, all lies, all exposed.

Could such lies have been exposed in Russia?

Why is Russia so keen to spread disinformation in the west?

False equivalence is a cancer in public discourse.

Absolutely. So's groupthink and blind acceptance.

Apparently accepting what the OPCW and the UN say constitutes "groupthink and blind acceptance" now, eh. Deary me.

[sid waddell]

Sid, although Russia is clearly a player in Syria, this thread is entitled "Syria". It was resurrected today and in two hours you've posted sevn posts and mentioned Russia nine times despite nobody else mentioning Russia, except in response to you.

There's little need for this thread to be turned into a You v Russia thread. There are others out there. It's clear; Russia can't be defended without whataboutery being used. Understood.

Does anyone, including Sid, have any reason or logic to believe why Assad would have committed this crime (without mentioning Russia)? Does anyone have any evidence that the crime happened? In the latter case, I've read reports that doctors reported casualties suffering from symptoms likely caused by a chemical attack. Conversely, I've read reports that hospitals have received no patients with these symptoms. Which should I believe and why?

Additionally, if Assad is 100% guilty of this alleged crime, does anyone think they should be attacked and to what end?

Russia gets mentioned because they are inextricably linked to the situation in Syria - Assad is their puppet. If you want to airbrush this fact, fire ahead by all means but don't expect your view to be taken seriously, especially when your contributions to anything involving Russia appear to be nothing more than to parrot whatever line the Russian government is taking, as you do again here.

Barbarity and forced ethnic cleansing is all the logic Assad and his Russian paymasters need for an attack such as this, especially after Trump said he wanted US troops out of Syria.

Last year there was a similar chemical attack after Trump said the US was not interested in ousting Assad.

The OPCW and the UN concluded that Assad was behind that attack.

But sure, far better to listen to RT and other shameless Russian propaganda.

[seafoid]

Putin uses chemical weapons as a dog whistle for Trump.  Last week Trump announced he was pulling the US out of Syria. Analysts were asking what this would mean for the Kurds. This week Trump is tweeting about missiles.

"White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders is grilled by the US media on just what Donald Trump means by his tweet on the Syria crisis telling Russia that the missiles 'will be coming'. She opens by saying it means 'we have a number of options and all those options are still on the table. Final decisions haven't been made yet.' When asked how this can mean anything but an impending airstrike, she replies: 'That's certainly one option but that doesn't mean it's the only option.' She insisted there was 'a lot there that you can read from' the tweet."

https://youtu.be/qFLhGq0060w

Trump is a f**king idiot.

[magpie seanie]

You can't believe any of them to be frank.

Lies tend to be found out in countries with a free press.

What institutions exist in Russia to expose government lies and hold them to account?

I don't agree. There are many lies that governments peddle that are not proven otherwise. Who bombed Dublin and Monaghan in 1974 for example? Also - I'm not sure what you mean by a "free press".....do we have that in Ireland or in Britain or America? We may have the appearance of it but it's being worn away all the time. I know little about Russia, I'd have my doubts they do either.

I'm under no illusions that Russia is not to be trusted. I just realise the UK and USA aren't to be trusted either.

In comparison to Russia, the press we have is indeed extremely free. That is very far from saying it is perfect or that there are not problems with it.

A democratic system does indeed have a happy knack of exposing lies.

Bloody Sunday, Hillsborough, Iraq, all lies, all exposed.

Could such lies have been exposed in Russia?

Why is Russia so keen to spread disinformation in the west?

False equivalence is a cancer in public discourse.

Absolutely. So's groupthink and blind acceptance.

Apparently accepting what the OPCW and the UN say constitutes "groupthink and blind acceptance" now, eh. Deary me.

That's not what I said and you know it. We were having a general discussion and then you made the leap that I was talking about a specific issue. Come on, you're better than that.

I wouldn't believe the Russians too much. I just also have little faith in the US and UK's ability to stick to the truth either. Maybe the difference with the west is that the truth gets found out long after the damage is done like the cases you mention above. I think labelling my view as a false equivalence is a bit of a stretch......all these governments are well fit to and have previous when it comes to telling convenient lies.

[MoChara]

Putin uses chemical weapons as a dog whistle for Trump.  Last week Trump announced he was pulling the US out of Syria. Analysts were asking what this would mean for the Kurds. This week Trump is tweeting about missiles.

"White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders is grilled by the US media on just what Donald Trump means by his tweet on the Syria crisis telling Russia that the missiles 'will be coming'. She opens by saying it means 'we have a number of options and all those options are still on the table. Final decisions haven't been made yet.' When asked how this can mean anything but an impending airstrike, she replies: 'That's certainly one option but that doesn't mean it's the only option.' She insisted there was 'a lot there that you can read from' the tweet."

https://youtu.be/qFLhGq0060w

Trump is a f**king idiot.

That's a woman that certainly has to earn her wages

[Esmarelda]

Sid, although Russia is clearly a player in Syria, this thread is entitled "Syria". It was resurrected today and in two hours you've posted sevn posts and mentioned Russia nine times despite nobody else mentioning Russia, except in response to you.

There's little need for this thread to be turned into a You v Russia thread. There are others out there. It's clear; Russia can't be defended without whataboutery being used. Understood.

Does anyone, including Sid, have any reason or logic to believe why Assad would have committed this crime (without mentioning Russia)? Does anyone have any evidence that the crime happened? In the latter case, I've read reports that doctors reported casualties suffering from symptoms likely caused by a chemical attack. Conversely, I've read reports that hospitals have received no patients with these symptoms. Which should I believe and why?

Additionally, if Assad is 100% guilty of this alleged crime, does anyone think they should be attacked and to what end?

Russia gets mentioned because they are inextricably linked to the situation in Syria - Assad is their puppet. If you want to airbrush this fact, fire ahead by all means but don't expect your view to be taken seriously, especially when your contributions to anything involving Russia appear to be nothing more than to parrot whatever line the Russian government is taking, as you do again here.

Barbarity and forced ethnic cleansing is all the logic Assad and his Russian paymasters need for an attack such as this, especially after Trump said he wanted US troops out of Syria.

Last year there was a similar chemical attack after Trump said the US was not interested in ousting Assad.

The OPCW and the UN concluded that Assad was behind that attack.

But sure, far better to listen to RT and other shameless Russian propaganda.

I have to hand it to you Sid, you're one in a million. I kind of knew after my post that I shouldn't have bothered. We live and learn I guess.

Just one thing, if only because I actually do like to hear differing views on things, regardless of how rigid they are; could you explain the logic, if there is any, about the bit in bold above? See if you can do it without using the R word.