2015 Laois Senior Hurling

[Mossy Bruce]

I never actually said we can beat 'big' teams, im TRYING to get the point across, that we can compete better than we are!! Very hard to get through to some folk though!

For chr!st sake, you've made your opinion VERY clear--AD NAUSEAM! And it's clear that most posters have a differing opinion. Next topic, please.

[Teo Lurley]

I never actually said we can beat 'big' teams, im TRYING to get the point across, that we can compete better than we are!! Very hard to get through to some folk though!

Compete better than we are? Where's your back up for this statement? I'll repeat a few results for you for when we went 15 v 15. Dublin 3-23 Laois 1-7, Galway 5-29 Laois 0-17, Limerick 6–21 Laois 1-11, Cork 10-20 Laois 1-13.
Here's a few results from when we didn't go 15 v 15. Laois 1-13 - 2-17 Galway, Laois 0-23 - 1-22 Galway, Laois 0-29 - 0-21 Offaly. Now, we've had a few bad beatings also when going with the defensive system but we've improved an awful long way. All you have to back up your claim that we can compete better than we are is delusion, I and others are backing up our point with cold, hard facts.
Maybe this will get through to you this time.

[finbar o tool]

Jaysus lads keep it country, its a difference of opinion! 

Ok, just so were clear Teo, you think we can't compete any better than we did this year??

I explained in detail why i feel we could have competed better, ive also asked for any one to explain to me how the sweeper helped us against galway or dublin and no one can it seems.
If anyone wants to change the topic there is f**k all stopping you! Work away!

[County Man]

Progress has been made this year for sure.

It is a long road with plenty of twists ahead on it.

[goal 10]

I SAW MOST OF THE LAOIS GAMES THIS YEAR,
AND I SEE NO PROGRESS AT ALL
I'M SORRY TO SAY.

[SpeculativeEffort]

Laois are making progress but patience is needed. Waterford play a similar style game to Laois but do it better. They have better players due to a number of successful schools, minor and U21 teams plus a bigger pool of senior club hurlers to pick from. We are going in the right direction and, although we must have high expectations, we cannot demand too much too soon.

In yesterday's Munster Final Tipperary fielded a first 15 with 12 clubs represented. Waterford had 11. When Laois faced Dublin two weeks ago only 7 clubs were represented. We are a small dual county trying to compete with huge hurling dominant counties. There are probably 10-15 senior clubs in Tipperary with no county representative. We have 8 senior clubs and all are represented on our panel.

Cheddar and Pat Critchley have sown the seeds of revolution. There are now clubs and juvenile hurlers in clubs where hurling didn't feature before. Places like Ballyadams, Wolfhill, Barrowhouse, Graiguecullen and Emo are producing players for Setanta programmes. We need this and we need it to continue. We are too small for hurling snobbery. Cheddar wants to create a team that young players aspire to. We should respect his and their efforts. We are close to being the best we can be right now and we are continuing to strive to improve. There is pride, honour and respect in that. The rest will follow as long as we persist.

[merman]

Laois are making progress but patience is needed. Waterford play a similar style game to Laois but do it better. They have better players due to a number of successful schools, minor and U21 teams plus a bigger pool of senior club hurlers to pick from. We are going in the right direction and, although we must have high expectations, we cannot demand too much too soon.

In yesterday's Munster Final Tipperary fielded a first 15 with 12 clubs represented. Waterford had 11. When Laois faced Dublin two weeks ago only 7 clubs were represented. We are a small dual county trying to compete with huge hurling dominant counties. There are probably 10-15 senior clubs in Tipperary with no county representative. We have 8 senior clubs and all are represented on our panel.

Cheddar and Pat Critchley have sown the seeds of revolution. There are now clubs and juvenile hurlers in clubs where hurling didn't feature before. Places like Ballyadams, Wolfhill, Barrowhouse, Graiguecullen and Emo are producing players for Setanta programmes. We need this and we need it to continue. We are too small for hurling snobbery. Cheddar wants to create a team that young players aspire to. We should respect his and their efforts. We are close to being the best we can be right now and we are continuing to strive to improve. There is pride, honour and respect in that. The rest will follow as long as we persist.

Superb post SE.
I agree with every word.

[Cruella De Vil]

Good post SE, hard to argue with any of that.

Laois hurling has definitely improved under cheddar, no doubt, but it can be confusing and irritating to see the different way the football and hurling panels are perceived In the eyes of some laois supporters. The football team coughs up a lead against kildare, and you'll hear how they'd no leaders, no heart, no this or that, hurlers go out against galway, game over at half time, and you'll hear its a bump, twist or some other type of undulation in the road to progress. Laois football has had a poor year, TOF didn't help, and the loss to Antrim was piss poor, but the hurling loss to Antrim was also poor. Beating the biffo's was a step we hadn't taken before and is progress, but as much as we are improving, they are coming back to meet us.

[burdizzo]

Perhaps the hurlers are cut more slack because the manager isn't getting paid a heap of money by the County Board?
Also, making progress in hurling is far more difficult than it is in football, where it IS feasible for a correctly applied and fit team to beat a team two divisions higher than them. Thus, getting out of the round-robin system is tangible progress, whereas the footballers reached way below themselves is losing to a depleted Antrim.

[finbar o tool]

the hurlers are cut more slack because the footballers have not been known as 'walkovers' for quite a while now, there was always the hope over the last number of years that we just might get to a Leinster final this year, there was always the hope we could, and did sometimes, get a win over a top rated county, etc

the hurling supporters have never had that mentality, its only the last 2 or 3 years that real support in numbers have turned up for matches. and to be fair, it was badly needed. no matter what our opinions are of the actual hurling, its fantastic to see numbers at the games and without a doubt, its special for our players, drives them on, and keeps them committed to the cause!

[SpeculativeEffort]

Good post SE, hard to argue with any of that.

Laois hurling has definitely improved under cheddar, no doubt, but it can be confusing and irritating to see the different way the football and hurling panels are perceived In the eyes of some laois supporters. The football team coughs up a lead against kildare, and you'll hear how they'd no leaders, no heart, no this or that, hurlers go out against galway, game over at half time, and you'll hear its a bump, twist or some other type of undulation in the road to progress. Laois football has had a poor year, TOF didn't help, and the loss to Antrim was piss poor, but the hurling loss to Antrim was also poor. Beating the biffo's was a step we hadn't taken before and is progress, but as much as we are improving, they are coming back to meet us.

Cruella it may be confusing etc. but the logic that the hurlers should be criticised because the footballers are being criticised is flawed.

The football people in the county have been frustrated for quite some time. I believe frustration has accumulated due to, in no particular order, players not wanting to play for Laois, the lack of coherent underage/coaching structures, the dominance of Portlaoise, the apathy among the other senior clubs, the senior club relegation debacle in 2014, the appointment of TOF and the overall lack of planning/direction of Laois football. The collapses v Kildare and Antrim have put the tin hat on the whole thing and the mood of Laois football is very negative as a result.

The hurling on the other hand have been competitive in 1B for the last two years after many years of yoyoing. The vast majority of players that should be playing are playing. Our underage teams are competing much better, reaching a minor and u21 Leinster Final and beating everyone in Leinster (bar Kilkenny) at some stage in the last 3/4 years. Hurling has structure through the Setanta programmes and our seniors are competing well . There is the belief that we have good people involved (Cheddar, Critchley etc) who have Laois hurling in their heart. There is a positivity about Laois hurling and we shouldn't try to quash that just because the footballers are getting criticised.

Although progress is slow the majority feel that Laois hurling has a heartbeat and a direction. Just look at the numbers pucking around and playing at underage. Hurling is growing. Football however is stuck in a rut and may not have bottomed out yet considering the standard of minor and u21 teams the last 10 years plus the standard of our senior championship.

[blueandwhite1]

I think there is something missing in the discussion on where Laois are right now and that is physicality. Our hurling skills and professionalism is continuing to improve, that is very evident in our underage teams, in our league and championship performances and in club games in Laois. However, why were we hammered by Kilkenny at minor this year? Physicality in the air and on the ground. Same against Waterford in 2014 in the qualifiers and in the League this year where we couldn't win a ball in the middle half of the pitch for most of the game. Same against Galway where we looked like kids compared to Galway (even lads like Hyland and Picky who are big men). Dublin played with our full back line using their physical dominance. Galway made some changes to their coaching years ago when they realized that having lovely hurlers counted for nothing against Kilkenny. Just look at the physical conditioning of Kilkenny and how they are able to dominate space using their size as well as their hurling. Some of them have conditioning comparable to a Dublin footballer (thanks to Mick Dempsey). I am definitely convinced that our hurling ability is increasing but we need to build our players up earlier. Thankfully this is much easier than trying to build skill. All the top teams now pack serious muscle. It worries me a little that many, including possibly Cheddar, seem to believe that tactics, belief and new blood are the keys to success. For me watching Laois this year and last, strength and height, especially in the backs was our biggest challenge. 

[merman]

Fair point blueandwhite1.

Part of my optimism looking 5/10 years down the line is that the Setanta programme will hopefully keep churning out a higher standard of club and county player.
As it stands now, with very few exceptions, we have our best players involved with the county. We are picking from a smaller base than most other counties (only 8 senior club) and we just don't have the options.
In 10 years time, we could maybe find ourselves in a situation where we have 40/50 hurlers of the requisite standard and can then start cherry-picking players based on physical attributes as well as hurling ability.

Strength and conditioning programmes will be a help but they are 2/3/5 year projects and we have a huge gap to close. I understand S&C programmes are now initiated at our Development Squad levels and that is an important step.

[finbar o tool]

Physical size IS an element of the game, but its certainly not Essential. There is a difference between being physically big, and being physical. Good coaching and having a good hurling brain is way more important. Things like awareness and spacial awareness, timing your jumps and your runs and your passing is very important and are sometimes overlooked. Little things like these separate the likes of Kilkenny and Tipp from most other teams. If i was a physically big person playing for say, Waterford or Cork etc, i still wouldnt like to see Tommy Walsh jogging over to mark me!!

[Cruella De Vil]

Good post SE, hard to argue with any of that.

Laois hurling has definitely improved under cheddar, no doubt, but it can be confusing and irritating to see the different way the football and hurling panels are perceived In the eyes of some laois supporters. The football team coughs up a lead against kildare, and you'll hear how they'd no leaders, no heart, no this or that, hurlers go out against galway, game over at half time, and you'll hear its a bump, twist or some other type of undulation in the road to progress. Laois football has had a poor year, TOF didn't help, and the loss to Antrim was piss poor, but the hurling loss to Antrim was also poor. Beating the biffo's was a step we hadn't taken before and is progress, but as much as we are improving, they are coming back to meet us.

Cruella it may be confusing etc. but the logic that the hurlers should be criticised because the footballers are being criticised is flawed.

Not looking for anyone to be criticised SE, just think reporting on both lacks balance.

I wouldn't be so sure about the "heaps" of money the CB are pumping into the football management. I'd be of the opinion the the lack of "heaps" is why you can only afford a journeyman when looking outside the county.