Guess the Sindo Headline

[Rossfan]

Why does every criticism of the Provo IRA always get answered by "but the Old IRA....." by their supporters?
Anyone from the 26 criticising the Provos is then told they're defending the Old IRA despite the fact that we didn't (except for the Laois buck naybe)
Snapchap couldn't give a straight answer and now he's off on the personal abuse thing.

[Angelo]

Why does anything SF get turned into an IRA thing?

If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander.

FF were commemorating an old IRA gunman today. Still living in the past etc etc.

It shows how weak of character Rossfan is. Then again he votes for a FG bagman but is too frightened to admit it.

We haven't heard you condemn the Old IRA. Interesting how you had no problem with murders and sectarian attacks committed for your freedom.

[Snapchap]

Why does every criticism of the Provo IRA always get answered by "but the Old IRA....." by their supporters?
Anyone from the 26 criticising the Provos is then told they're defending the Old IRA despite the fact that we didn't (except for the Laois buck naybe)
Snapchap couldn't give a straight answer and now he's off on the personal abuse thing.

As I already said, this thread isn't about the PIRA. If you want to talk about them, then that means the Old IRA are fair game to talk about too.

So again; why are you so evasive when asked the same questions about the Old IRA as you ask others about the PIRA?

You asked what the likes of Kingsmills had to do with getting the British out of Ireland. I answered that it had about as much to do with that aim as the Dunmannway Massacre had. Yet you don't seem to talk about any such Old IRA atrocities. Funny that. Were the Old IRA terrorists or not?

[mouview]

Come back Eoghan Harris, all is forgiven!

[seafoid]

Wikipedia says"about 750 civilians dead" in the War of partial Independence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence#:~:text=Violence%20continued%20to%20escalate%20over,percent%20of%20the%20conflict%20deaths.
Many of those would have been killed by the Black and Tans  pour encourager les autres.
Split it to get 375

PIRA civilians murdered

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign
508[4]–644[5] civilians

4. "Sutton Index of Deaths: Crosstabulations (two-way tables)". Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN). Retrieved 1 March 2016. (choose "organization" and "status" as the variables)
5.  Lost Lives (2004. Ed's David McKitrick, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney, Chris Thornton, David McVea, page 1536)


Some of the volunteers in the IRA were psychopaths. Maybe it's unfair but it's far more recent than the Tans and people remember.

Figures for the Tan War aren't as accurate as they are for the more recent phase of conflict. We know that 35% of PIRA victims were civilians. Most estimates for the Old IRA put their civilian casualites at 35 or 36%. The latter was the estimate as outlined in the 'Dead of the Irish Revolution' book.

So it seems abundently clear that the proportion of civilian casualties killed by the Old IRA was at least, and likely more, than were killed by the PIRA. We also know the Old IRA killed and disappeared over 10 times the number of people (mostly civilians) that the PIRA did, and did so in approximately one tenth of the time.

So seriously, given the facts above, have you anything to back up your contention that the Old IRA were not psycopathic terrorists but the PIRA were?

You are a hypocritical clown.

You're worse. you are an ideologue and you're interchangeable with the rest of the Shinners.
The old IRA gor the job done apart from the occupied counties  in a few years. The PIRA didn't. The 1970s were gruesome in NI,
The psychopaths took over.
A lot of people in the South would have heard about the campaign in depth every morning on the radio. Some of them might be wondering if the war might return,

There are a good few things to address before the border poll.

[Angelo]

Wikipedia says"about 750 civilians dead" in the War of partial Independence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence#:~:text=Violence%20continued%20to%20escalate%20over,percent%20of%20the%20conflict%20deaths.
Many of those would have been killed by the Black and Tans  pour encourager les autres.
Split it to get 375

PIRA civilians murdered

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign
508[4]–644[5] civilians

4. "Sutton Index of Deaths: Crosstabulations (two-way tables)". Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN). Retrieved 1 March 2016. (choose "organization" and "status" as the variables)
5.  Lost Lives (2004. Ed's David McKitrick, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney, Chris Thornton, David McVea, page 1536)


Some of the volunteers in the IRA were psychopaths. Maybe it's unfair but it's far more recent than the Tans and people remember.

Figures for the Tan War aren't as accurate as they are for the more recent phase of conflict. We know that 35% of PIRA victims were civilians. Most estimates for the Old IRA put their civilian casualites at 35 or 36%. The latter was the estimate as outlined in the 'Dead of the Irish Revolution' book.

So it seems abundently clear that the proportion of civilian casualties killed by the Old IRA was at least, and likely more, than were killed by the PIRA. We also know the Old IRA killed and disappeared over 10 times the number of people (mostly civilians) that the PIRA did, and did so in approximately one tenth of the time.

So seriously, given the facts above, have you anything to back up your contention that the Old IRA were not psycopathic terrorists but the PIRA were?

You are a hypocritical clown.

You're worse. you are an ideologue and you're interchangeable with the rest of the Shinners.
The old IRA gor the job done apart from the occupied counties  in a few years. The PIRA didn't. The 1970s were gruesome in NI,
The psychopaths took over.
A lot of people in the South would have heard about the campaign in depth every morning on the radio. Some of them might be wondering if the war might return,

There are a good few things to address before the border poll.

Hypocrite.

[HiMucker]

Wikipedia says"about 750 civilians dead" in the War of partial Independence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence#:~:text=Violence%20continued%20to%20escalate%20over,percent%20of%20the%20conflict%20deaths.
Many of those would have been killed by the Black and Tans  pour encourager les autres.
Split it to get 375

PIRA civilians murdered

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign
508[4]–644[5] civilians

4. "Sutton Index of Deaths: Crosstabulations (two-way tables)". Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN). Retrieved 1 March 2016. (choose "organization" and "status" as the variables)
5.  Lost Lives (2004. Ed's David McKitrick, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney, Chris Thornton, David McVea, page 1536)


Some of the volunteers in the IRA were psychopaths. Maybe it's unfair but it's far more recent than the Tans and people remember.

Figures for the Tan War aren't as accurate as they are for the more recent phase of conflict. We know that 35% of PIRA victims were civilians. Most estimates for the Old IRA put their civilian casualites at 35 or 36%. The latter was the estimate as outlined in the 'Dead of the Irish Revolution' book.

So it seems abundently clear that the proportion of civilian casualties killed by the Old IRA was at least, and likely more, than were killed by the PIRA. We also know the Old IRA killed and disappeared over 10 times the number of people (mostly civilians) that the PIRA did, and did so in approximately one tenth of the time.

So seriously, given the facts above, have you anything to back up your contention that the Old IRA were not psycopathic terrorists but the PIRA were?

You are a hypocritical clown.

You're worse. you are an ideologue and you're interchangeable with the rest of the Shinners.
The old IRA gor the job done apart from the occupied counties  in a few years. The PIRA didn't. The 1970s were gruesome in NI,
The psychopaths took over.
A lot of people in the South would have heard about the campaign in depth every morning on the radio. Some of them might be wondering if the war might return,

There are a good few things to address before the border poll.

Really, is that why these psychopaths got their kicks elsewhere after 1998? 
Oh wait...

[Snapchap]

​
The old IRA gor the job done apart from the occupied counties  in a few years. The PIRA didn't.

So they got the job done except for the fact that they didn't? I don't think they set out to achieve partition, did they?
Besides, are you suggesting their aims justified the means? Because if the Old IRA killed at least the same proportion of civilians as the PIRA did, then how can that be ok, if you keep using the metric of civilian killings to explain your view that the PIRA were the terrorist psychopaths?

​The 1970s were gruesome in NI,
The psychopaths took over.

See above point. If the PIRA were psychopaths, then surely the Old IRA must have been too, since they killed at least the same proportion of civilians, and likely higher. If not, explain why.

A lot of people in the South would have heard about the campaign in depth every morning on the radio.

Indeed. Fed a Section 31 managed version of events. Perhaps that's why some of you have such a warped understanding of what went on here. The real wonder is that few if any of you are prepared to consider the possibility that living under such state media censorship could potentially have adversely impacted your knowledge. In fact a hefty number of you seem to actually think you understand what went on here better than those of us who lived through it, because you watched the news updates.

[trueblue1234]

Seafoid you are all over the place. Your cryptic cherry picking would embarrass the DUP.

[johnnycool]

Wikipedia says"about 750 civilians dead" in the War of partial Independence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_War_of_Independence#:~:text=Violence%20continued%20to%20escalate%20over,percent%20of%20the%20conflict%20deaths.
Many of those would have been killed by the Black and Tans  pour encourager les autres.
Split it to get 375

PIRA civilians murdered

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_Irish_Republican_Army_campaign
508[4]–644[5] civilians

4. "Sutton Index of Deaths: Crosstabulations (two-way tables)". Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN). Retrieved 1 March 2016. (choose "organization" and "status" as the variables)
5.  Lost Lives (2004. Ed's David McKitrick, Seamus Kelters, Brian Feeney, Chris Thornton, David McVea, page 1536)


Some of the volunteers in the IRA were psychopaths. Maybe it's unfair but it's far more recent than the Tans and people remember.

Figures for the Tan War aren't as accurate as they are for the more recent phase of conflict. We know that 35% of PIRA victims were civilians. Most estimates for the Old IRA put their civilian casualites at 35 or 36%. The latter was the estimate as outlined in the 'Dead of the Irish Revolution' book.

So it seems abundently clear that the proportion of civilian casualties killed by the Old IRA was at least, and likely more, than were killed by the PIRA. We also know the Old IRA killed and disappeared over 10 times the number of people (mostly civilians) that the PIRA did, and did so in approximately one tenth of the time.

So seriously, given the facts above, have you anything to back up your contention that the Old IRA were not psycopathic terrorists but the PIRA were?

You are a hypocritical clown.

You're worse. you are an ideologue and you're interchangeable with the rest of the Shinners.
The old IRA gor the job done apart from the occupied counties  in a few years. The PIRA didn't. The 1970s were gruesome in NI,
The psychopaths took over.
A lot of people in the South would have heard about the campaign in depth every morning on the radio. Some of them might be wondering if the war might return,

There are a good few things to address before the border poll.

From where? RTE radio of BBC?

Neither give a true reflection of what was going on up here and for every Ballymurphy or bloody Sunday there's dozens of other incidents where innocent people were shot by those in uniform so the psychopaths wore uniforms and grey suites up in Stormont.

[johnnycool]

Turns out Eoghan Harris wasn't even a friend of David Irvine either.

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2021/05/12/news/eoghan-harris-s-claim-he-was-friends-with-david-ervine-complete-fantasy--2318787/?param=ds441rif44T

The man lives in a fantasy world and needed professional help then and now but too many around him tolerated his obsessions as it probably suited their narrative as well.

[clonadmad]

The Old IRA engaged in what was termed an ethnic cleansing campaign down in Cork.

There definitely seemed to have been a much more overt sectarian agenda to the Old IRA than the Provos.

Tying a few prisoners of war to a tree and detonating a landmine under them would probably meet the definition of psychopathic too.

You've obviously swallowed hook line and sinker the Eoghan Harris lies about Ethnic Cleansing in Dunmanway

Which was started by the likes of Peter Hart to give moral cover as to what went on in the Belfast shipyards around the same time

Sad to see you being conned but then again your hatred of the south blinds you to reality and makes you stand with the likes of Harris and Hart in peddling this lie.

[Pub Bore]

High profile northern journalist Allison Morris has joined Paul Larkin and Prof Colin Harvey in legal action against Eoghan Harris to try to discover who else is behind the various Twitter accounts that Harris ran.

Can you think of a few people who've been very quiet this week?

[Angelo]

The Old IRA engaged in what was termed an ethnic cleansing campaign down in Cork.

There definitely seemed to have been a much more overt sectarian agenda to the Old IRA than the Provos.

Tying a few prisoners of war to a tree and detonating a landmine under them would probably meet the definition of psychopathic too.

You've obviously swallowed hook line and sinker the Eoghan Harris lies about Ethnic Cleansing in Dunmanway

Which was started by the likes of Peter Hart to give moral cover as to what went on in the Belfast shipyards around the same time

Sad to see you being conned but then again your hatred of the south blinds you to reality and makes you stand with the likes of Harris and Hart in peddling this lie.

Eoin Harris never talked about ethnic cleansing in Dunmanway.

He never criticised the Old IRA.

It's you who is trotting out Eoghan Harris and his airbrushed version of history.

[Rossfan]

The Old IRA engaged in what was termed an ethnic cleansing campaign down in Cork.

There definitely seemed to have been a much more overt sectarian agenda to the Old IRA than the Provos.

Tying a few prisoners of war to a tree and detonating a landmine under them would probably meet the definition of psychopathic too.

You've obviously swallowed hook line and sinker the Eoghan Harris lies about Ethnic Cleansing in Dunmanway

Which was started by the likes of Peter Hart to give moral cover as to what went on in the Belfast shipyards around the same time

Sad to see you being conned but then again your hatred of the south blinds you to reality and makes you stand with the likes of Harris and Hart in peddling this lie.

Rather sad to see Provo supporters taking the word of those 2 cnuts as gospel.
And repeating it ad nauseam to avoid having to give a straight answer re Le Mons, murders of Gardai, bank robberies, sectarian killing of Senator Fox, disgraceful cowardly act in Warrington etc etc.
Dan Breen or the Cork Brigade executing informers is no justification for those actions.
Most of the informers in 1920/21 were unmasked by Collins' spies in the Castle.
In contrast the Provos Informer catcher was the biggest Informer of all.