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Another semi-final appearance for Derry, players and management have given us 2 great years to date. I've no doubt we'll give Kerry their fill of it.
Kerry were ruthless on Sat & Derry a bit off so the immediate feeling yesterday was it'll be a very tough day. Shane had a very rare off day (couple of folk mentioned he wasn't 100%), yesterday but the other 5 forwards all chipped in with scores that got us over the line. Murray banked a good 20 mins which was good to see.
The spine of the team need the games of their lives, really looking forward to it.

McFaul was excellent coming from deep and picking up ball. Glass superb defensively.

They sat too deep at times. Grinded out a result.

In the last two matches Derry have been turned over against Clare and Cork too easily at times. Kerry where excellent at turning over Tyrone as they pressed so a cause for concern, outside the obvious.

It's a big ask but if you told me at the start of this year we'd win the McKenna cup, beat Dublin in the league, get promoted, retain the Ulster Cship and get to another All Ireland semi final I'd have bitten your hand off. We've done really well this year to get to where we are and honestly we haven't played that well since the Monaghan Ulster game so I'm hoping we can turn it around for this game.

Kerry looked flying but Tyrone were so naive it was madness. Nobody at any stage thought that it would be a good idea to try a few long kickouts and take advantage of the Midfield advantage that they had to create a bit of mayhem up the pitch. Instead they kept popping it 5 yards and tried to move through the lines only to get turned over repeatedly.

I would expect our tactical ability to be better than that but at the end of the day Kerry have better players overall so I still expect them to win but I hope we put in a good performance.

Quote from: screenexile on July 03, 2023, 11:03:12 AM
It's a big ask but if you told me at the start of this year we'd win the McKenna cup, beat Dublin in the league, get promoted, retain the Ulster Cship and get to another All Ireland semi final I'd have bitten your hand off. We've done really well this year to get to where we are and honestly we haven't played that well since the Monaghan Ulster game so I'm hoping we can turn it around for this game.

Kerry looked flying but Tyrone were so naive it was madness. Nobody at any stage thought that it would be a good idea to try a few long kickouts and take advantage of the Midfield advantage that they had to create a bit of mayhem up the pitch. Instead they kept popping it 5 yards and tried to move through the lines only to get turned over repeatedly.

I would expect our tactical ability to be better than that but at the end of the day Kerry have better players overall so I still expect them to win but I hope we put in a good performance.

Agree 100%.
What ever happens it's been a good year.
If we can raise our game the way we did against donegal in last years ulster final, we are in with a shout.
But Kerry have to be raging hot favorites after the weekend.

The Chrissy and Clifford matchup will decide an All Star  ;D

I see tickets up tomorrow, probably best waiting on this on into the week.

It will be interesting to see if Kerry can get as fired up for this game as they did for Tyrone, very hard to back that up twice in a row

How many do we expect to see at the game, will there be more than 40k?

Quote from: toby47 on July 03, 2023, 04:08:26 PM
How many do we expect to see at the game, will there be more than 40k?

Many in Kerry will see this as a stroll and save themselves for the final, half full max

Dubs and Monaghan will fill Croke, this one should be played after Tailteean Cup final. Not often Croke Pk misses out on an opportunity to sell tickets.

Quote from: bannside on July 03, 2023, 06:10:14 PM
Dubs and Monaghan will fill Croke, this one should be played after Tailteean Cup final. Not often Croke Pk misses out on an opportunity to sell tickets.

My thoughts exactly. I was sure our game would be on the Saturday evening after Down and Meath. Croker could have been three quarters full with those matches and Dublin and Monaghan would fill the place on the Sunday.

If we play like we did against Monaghan first day out (But we not the same team since that for obvious reasons) we have a good chance. Play like we did yesterday, a mauling worse than Tyrone, awaits. We been poor on the last 3 visits to Croke Park. We are too reliable on the same men all the time. It's about time the lesser lights stood up, Glass and Co. Can't carry us all the time.

Derry will bring a massive crowd, last year I couldn't believe how many Derry people were at the semi. I expect the same again.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 03, 2023, 08:11:37 PM
Derry will bring a massive crowd, last year I couldn't believe how many Derry people were at the semi. I expect the same again.

Would last years semi have been a better opportunity to play in a final?

Yes and no, simply put we 2 short in scoring forwards plus maybe 3 men on the bench, which shows in 3 lads in the subs who never really started senior for Derry. E Bradley and, Jack Doherty are required nxt Yr, maybe a look at some other forwards (but I been to 10 different league games and no-one has stood out though Newbridge got a lad fairly good) Panel needs pushed out to 40, panel simply too small, allow extended panel members to play club fball to keep them on board.

It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Jesus no!!! We can't do that we'll get crucified like Tyrone did.

We have to play our usual game in defence (which was superb at the weekend bar the goal). I'm just hoping we've been keeping some offensive moves and formations to keep Kerry on their toes but we'll still play our ultra conservative game.

Quote from: screenexile on July 03, 2023, 09:15:30 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Jesus no!!! We can't do that we'll get crucified like Tyrone did.

We have to play our usual game in defence (which was superb at the weekend bar the goal). I'm just hoping we've been keeping some offensive moves and formations to keep Kerry on their toes but we'll still play our ultra conservative game.

I thought Tyrone were defensive

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 09:17:34 PM

Quote from: screenexile on July 03, 2023, 09:15:30 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Jesus no!!! We can't do that we'll get crucified like Tyrone did.

We have to play our usual game in defence (which was superb at the weekend bar the goal). I'm just hoping we've been keeping some offensive moves and formations to keep Kerry on their toes but we'll still play our ultra conservative game.

I thought Tyrone were defensive

Maybe I gave them too much credit... if they were defensive they did they didn't make a very good job of it!

Both teams will set up similar. Kerry were very defensive on Saturday. Moved the ball extremely well when they turned the ball over in their half.

Quote from: tbrick18 on July 03, 2023, 12:02:57 PM

Quote from: screenexile on July 03, 2023, 11:03:12 AM
It's a big ask but if you told me at the start of this year we'd win the McKenna cup, beat Dublin in the league, get promoted, retain the Ulster Cship and get to another All Ireland semi final I'd have bitten your hand off. We've done really well this year to get to where we are and honestly we haven't played that well since the Monaghan Ulster game so I'm hoping we can turn it around for this game.

Kerry looked flying but Tyrone were so naive it was madness. Nobody at any stage thought that it would be a good idea to try a few long kickouts and take advantage of the Midfield advantage that they had to create a bit of mayhem up the pitch. Instead they kept popping it 5 yards and tried to move through the lines only to get turned over repeatedly.

I would expect our tactical ability to be better than that but at the end of the day Kerry have better players overall so I still expect them to win but I hope we put in a good performance.

Agree 100%.
What ever happens it's been a good year.
If we can raise our game the way we did against donegal in last years ulster final, we are in with a shout.
But Kerry have to be raging hot favorites after the weekend.

Agreed. The players will give their all and we should give our all in supporting them v Ciarraí. Big challenge but that is what you want and get in top 4. Doire abú!

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 09:17:34 PM

Quote from: screenexile on July 03, 2023, 09:15:30 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Jesus no!!! We can't do that we'll get crucified like Tyrone did.

We have to play our usual game in defence (which was superb at the weekend bar the goal). I'm just hoping we've been keeping some offensive moves and formations to keep Kerry on their toes but we'll still play our ultra conservative game.

I thought Tyrone were defensive

Tyrone weren't defensive, and haven't been all year. Their intensity in tackling has been poor in 2023. The reason  people gave them a chance v Kerry was due to their attack. Think for yourself and don't let the lazy SG  analysis cloud your judgment!
Derryvon the other hand...

Eamon Fitzmaurice (that cute ho#r from Kerry) has while on the Sunday Game / Sun/Sat Live pundit / co-commentator duty been very positive and completely understands the Derry system .... and Kerry replicated that v Tyrone in the first half.  So there's no surprise element whatsoever that Derry can come up.   Maybe rotating the players differently on our Long kick-out which means that Lynch needs to kick into the space in the hope that  either P Cassidy, McFaul or the inclusion of L Murray will time their run to get the catch.  Too often Glass has broken the ball too hard and there has been no one on the correct side to get the 'break'  .... these Derry players know each others strengths very well so it should be possible to get 3/4 of these correct in each half  .. generally Glass & Rogers are marked men so that is why i'm suggesting some less likely candidates to be targeted .... however there's no point in me trying "to teach a bird how to fly" .... Meenagh, Muldoon and Co are well capable of knowing whats needed at this stage.

Some people have suggested that Cork were awful but I watched the Kerry, Roscommon and Mayo games  versus  Cork and they were improving Match on Match ... yesterday the only thing that let them down was their shooting and some poor decision making.   Derry's system is good and as Fitzmaurice also said they have been the most consistent team in League and Championship this year.

Quote from: thebuzz on July 03, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

Quote from: bannside on July 03, 2023, 06:10:14 PM
Dubs and Monaghan will fill Croke, this one should be played after Tailteean Cup final. Not often Croke Pk misses out on an opportunity to sell tickets.

My thoughts exactly. I was sure our game would be on the Saturday evening after Down and Meath. Croker could have been three quarters full with those matches and Dublin and Monaghan would fill the place on the Sunday.

Sat game would not get the prime time rte slot on a Sunday.
With the public outcries about the current ai champs having to be aired on gaago, I suspect the real reason is that.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Sounds like suicide. There are no chains - Armagh has used most of them.

Quote from: tbrick18 on July 03, 2023, 10:53:00 PM

Quote from: thebuzz on July 03, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

Quote from: bannside on July 03, 2023, 06:10:14 PM
Dubs and Monaghan will fill Croke, this one should be played after Tailteean Cup final. Not often Croke Pk misses out on an opportunity to sell tickets.

My thoughts exactly. I was sure our game would be on the Saturday evening after Down and Meath. Croker could have been three quarters full with those matches and Dublin and Monaghan would fill the place on the Sunday.

Sat game would not get the prime time rte slot on a Sunday.
With the public outcries about the current ai champs having to be aired on gaago, I suspect the real reason is that.

GAAGo coverage is now done for the year. Saturdays games were their last

Quote from: JoG2 on July 03, 2023, 11:32:53 PM

Quote from: tbrick18 on July 03, 2023, 10:53:00 PM

Quote from: thebuzz on July 03, 2023, 06:57:28 PM

Quote from: bannside on July 03, 2023, 06:10:14 PM
Dubs and Monaghan will fill Croke, this one should be played after Tailteean Cup final. Not often Croke Pk misses out on an opportunity to sell tickets.

My thoughts exactly. I was sure our game would be on the Saturday evening after Down and Meath. Croker could have been three quarters full with those matches and Dublin and Monaghan would fill the place on the Sunday.

Sat game would not get the prime time rte slot on a Sunday.
With the public outcries about the current ai champs having to be aired on gaago, I suspect the real reason is that.

GAAGo coverage is now done for the year. Saturdays games were their last

Yeah I know but giving kerry the prime time Sunday slot will put an end to some of their complaints about having  their earlier games behind a pay wall.

Will Derry have enough firepower to beat Kerry? Kerry out Tyroned Tyrone with their defensive play. Huge credit to Paddy Tally.

Assuming the Upper Tier isn't going to be open for this one.
No tickets on sale for it yet. Plenty still to be sold in the Lower Canal end.

Quote from: Estimator on July 04, 2023, 02:38:31 PM
Assuming the Upper Tier isn't going to be open for this one.
No tickets on sale for it yet. Plenty still to be sold in the Lower Canal end.

i jumped in and took them, just in case they dont open up above.
no real bad seats in Croke anyway

Derry have beaten and eliminated the reigning All Ireland senior football champs twice in their history: 1992 Down and 1993 Donegal

30 years on?

Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 04, 2023, 04:17:57 PM
Derry have beaten and eliminated the reigning All Ireland senior football champs twice in their history: 1992 Down and 1993 Donegal

30 years on?

Tyrone in 2006.

Quote from: tbrick18 on July 04, 2023, 04:19:46 PM

Quote from: Captain Obvious on July 04, 2023, 04:17:57 PM
Derry have beaten and eliminated the reigning All Ireland senior football champs twice in their history: 1992 Down and 1993 Donegal

30 years on?

Tyrone in 2006.

Laois eliminated them.

Derry deserve their Summer in the sun. I'm not a fan of their football but they have had a tough year yet stuck to their own cause. They are now in the position we were in 03, 05 and 21. Big team in the semi to beat. Can they rise to it.....

Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 04, 2023, 02:33:48 PM
Will Derry have enough firepower to beat Kerry? Kerry out Tyroned Tyrone with their defensive play. Huge credit to Paddy Tally.

Kerry for probably the first time this year was back playing to the system that basically won them the All-Ireland last year but was greatly helped by the way Tyrone was set up 2nd half leaving themselves man on man something Derry are unlikely to do.

I'm expecting this game to be low scoring contest with plenty of pundits/experts complaining about it afterwards.

When was the last 2 in a row ulster champion who didn't make an all Ireland final? Tyrone 94 95 got to the final and lost. Did Armagh or Donegal win 2 in a row and failed to push on as well in more recent times?

Quote from: rrhf on July 04, 2023, 05:53:17 PM
When was the last 2 in a row ulster champion who didn't make an all Ireland final? Tyrone 94 95 got to the final and lost. Did Armagh or Donegal win 2 in a row and failed to push on as well in more recent times?

Tyrone won Ulster in 95 and 96

Quote from: rrhf on July 04, 2023, 05:53:17 PM
When was the last 2 in a row ulster champion who didn't make an all Ireland final? Tyrone 94 95 got to the final and lost. Did Armagh or Donegal win 2 in a row and failed to push on as well in more recent times?

That's nothing, the 2 in a row Connaught Champions didn't even make the 1/4 final in the 2nd year.

Derry to win this by 4 .

Quote from: rrhf on July 04, 2023, 05:53:17 PM
When was the last 2 in a row ulster champion who didn't make an all Ireland final? Tyrone 94 95 got to the final and lost. Did Armagh or Donegal win 2 in a row and failed to push on as well in more recent times?

Armagh were 3 in a row Ulster champions in 2006 when beaten by Kerry in the QF in 2006. The Kerry manager was some guy called Jack O'Connor, and he seemed to enjoy it. That game was a lot closer than the final scoreline suggested. The Derry game might be similar.

Quote from: rrhf on July 04, 2023, 05:53:17 PM
When was the last 2 in a row ulster champion who didn't make an all Ireland final? Tyrone 94 95 got to the final and lost. Did Armagh or Donegal win 2 in a row and failed to push on as well in more recent times?

It's a sign of how weak Ulster is at the minute. In 02/03 Armagh made the final twice. 11/12 Donegal and 17/18 tyrone both saw final appearances.

Quote from: rrhf on July 04, 2023, 05:53:17 PM
When was the last 2 in a row ulster champion who didn't make an all Ireland final? Tyrone 94 95 got to the final and lost. Did Armagh or Donegal win 2 in a row and failed to push on as well in more recent times?

Tyrone didn't win in 94. The mournemen won ulster.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

I think they should go for it.

They won't though. Expect a dogged first half, maybe a 2 or 3 pint Kerry lead. Then slowly Kerry will turn the screw and end up winning by 9 or 10.

Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:31:37 PM

Quote from: rrhf on July 04, 2023, 05:53:17 PM
When was the last 2 in a row ulster champion who didn't make an all Ireland final? Tyrone 94 95 got to the final and lost. Did Armagh or Donegal win 2 in a row and failed to push on as well in more recent times?

It's a sign of how weak Ulster is at the minute. In 02/03 Armagh made the final twice. 11/12 Donegal and 17/18 tyrone both saw final appearances.

Kerry and Dublin are a level above. The Ulster counties have proven themselves to be the best of the rest.

Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:31:37 PM

Quote from: rrhf on July 04, 2023, 05:53:17 PM
When was the last 2 in a row ulster champion who didn't make an all Ireland final? Tyrone 94 95 got to the final and lost. Did Armagh or Donegal win 2 in a row and failed to push on as well in more recent times?

It's a sign of how weak Ulster is at the minute. In 02/03 Armagh made the final twice. 11/12 Donegal and 17/18 tyrone both saw final appearances.

Ulster had 4/8 Quarter finalists...

Weak though 🙄🙄

Quote from: screenexile on July 04, 2023, 10:05:17 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:31:37 PM

Quote from: rrhf on July 04, 2023, 05:53:17 PM
When was the last 2 in a row ulster champion who didn't make an all Ireland final? Tyrone 94 95 got to the final and lost. Did Armagh or Donegal win 2 in a row and failed to push on as well in more recent times?

It's a sign of how weak Ulster is at the minute. In 02/03 Armagh made the final twice. 11/12 Donegal and 17/18 tyrone both saw final appearances.

Ulster had 4/8 Quarter finalists...

Weak though 🙄🙄

And 2 semifinalists more than Connaught has.
And one more than either Leinster or Munster.
But Ulster is the weak province.
The old jealousy and bias can be hard to hide.

Quote from: RedHand88 on July 04, 2023, 07:34:56 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

I think they should go for it.

They won't though. Expect a dogged first half, maybe a 2 or 3 pint Kerry lead. Then slowly Kerry will turn the screw and end up winning by 9 or 10.

As opposed to the 12 Tír Eoghain got beat by?

What happened in the past means nothing.
I honestly think this will be the toughest game Kerry will have had this year, but they will be confident of the win.
I think Derry will believe they can upset the odds and beat Kerry.

On paper, Kerry are strong favorites.
We've got to where we are on merit. 2 ulster's, promotion to div1 and 2 sf appearances in a row.
That's enough to prove we have a strong side.
It would be a massive step for Derry to progress in saying that.

We live in hope rather than expectation and so long as we perform, then the result would be a bonus.

Quote from: rrhf on July 04, 2023, 05:53:17 PM
When was the last 2 in a row ulster champion who didn't make an all Ireland final? Tyrone 94 95 got to the final and lost. Did Armagh or Donegal win 2 in a row and failed to push on as well in more recent times?

Donegal 2019, Tyrone 2017, Tyrone 2010, Armagh 04-06, Armagh 99-00
Have I misunderstood the question? There's more examples of this in recent years than actually reaching the final - Donegal 11/12 Tyrone 95/96

Quote from: screenexile on July 04, 2023, 10:05:17 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 04, 2023, 07:31:37 PM

Quote from: rrhf on July 04, 2023, 05:53:17 PM
When was the last 2 in a row ulster champion who didn't make an all Ireland final? Tyrone 94 95 got to the final and lost. Did Armagh or Donegal win 2 in a row and failed to push on as well in more recent times?

It's a sign of how weak Ulster is at the minute. In 02/03 Armagh made the final twice. 11/12 Donegal and 17/18 tyrone both saw final appearances.

Ulster had 4/8 Quarter finalists...

Weak though 🙄🙄

First time since 2015 when we had Fermanagh, Monaghan, Donegal and Tyrone.
Kerry beat Tyrone in the semi and lost to Dubs in the final.

Fair play to Derry making it two semifinal appearances in a row. First time retaining Ulster since 1976 where Kerry hammered them in the semi 5.14 to 1.10. All thanks to Wiki.

Is there a feeling of reaching the glass ceiling with Derry now or can they raise their performance to another level which is needed when you get to the last 4?
I'd imagine it will be a very defensively minded game with both teams giving the other the kickouts and packing their defence to make it very hard to score.

It's not a glass ceiling, there had 3/4 very strong minor teams and it be the lads in their mid 20's who will push Derry increased threat, over the nxt  5/6yrs.I think Derry gonna be about for awhile but currently we are a few forwards short, and more strength players wise of the bench.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 05, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
It's not a glass ceiling, there had 3/4 very strong minor teams and it be the lads in their mid 20's who take on Derry increased threat over the nxt  5/6yrs.I think Derry gonna be about for awhile but currently we are a few forwards short, and more strength players wise of the bench.

Derry have come out of ulster at minor level in 7 of the last 9 years and a lot of the lads from those first few years are the backbone of the current team. The future is bright and hopefully the new management structure will see more emphasis on strengthening that bench and preparing those fringe players for senior intercounty football.

I completely understand the criticism of our style, games vs similarly set up teams such as last year's ulster final, all Ireland semi and this year's ulster and the cork game are horrible watches, but coming after almost a decade where we refused to adopt a more pragmatic defensive system and managed to win one game in ulster, you can see why we are willing to put up with it and the players have embraced it.
It should be recognized that we have had a number of entertaining all out attack games and great wins over the past few years, Tyrone, Clare and Monaghan last year were all great fun!
This year we have had impressive high scores and plenty of goals numerous times including vs fermanagh, Monaghan and Donegal.
As for Kerry, I don't think they'll sit back and give us the kickout, teams should know by now that pressing us high is very effective. I'm looking forward to the game, Clifford aside I would definitely fancy Derry's chances, we all know what he can do, indeed a few of the team were playing when he knocked in 4.4 in the minor final in 17, but if he can have an off day or mckaigue and glass starve him of possession, who knows?
We've been quiet the last few games, but I'm expecting a big performance and this kerry team has been shown to be vulnerable in the past, we're underdogs and pretty much written off by everyone, but it might just be closer than everyone thinks.

Quote from: onefineday on July 07, 2023, 02:16:55 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 05, 2023, 04:26:09 PM
It's not a glass ceiling, there had 3/4 very strong minor teams and it be the lads in their mid 20's who take on Derry increased threat over the nxt  5/6yrs.I think Derry gonna be about for awhile but currently we are a few forwards short, and more strength players wise of the bench.

Derry have come out of ulster at minor level in 7 of the last 9 years and a lot of the lads from those first few years are the backbone of the current team. The future is bright and hopefully the new management structure will see more emphasis on strengthening that bench and preparing those fringe players for senior intercounty football.

I completely understand the criticism of our style, games vs similarly set up teams such as last year's ulster final, all Ireland semi and this year's ulster and the cork game are horrible watches, but coming after almost a decade where we refused to adopt a more pragmatic defensive system and managed to win one game in ulster, you can see why we are willing to put up with it and the players have embraced it.
It should be recognized that we have had a number of entertaining all out attack games and great wins over the past few years, Tyrone, Clare and Monaghan last year were all great fun!
This year we have had impressive high scores and plenty of goals numerous times including vs fermanagh, Monaghan and Donegal.
As for Kerry, I don't think they'll sit back and give us the kickout, teams should know by now that pressing us high is very effective. I'm looking forward to the game, Clifford aside I would definitely fancy Derry's chances, we all know what he can do, indeed a few of the team were playing when he knocked in 4.4 in the minor final in 17, but if he can have an off day or mckaigue and glass starve him of possession, who knows?
We've been quiet the last few games, but I'm expecting a big performance and this kerry team has been shown to be vulnerable in the past, we're underdogs and pretty much written off by everyone, but it might just be closer than everyone thinks.

Agree with all of this, but Kerry are more than just clifford. Theres his brother and Seanie O'Shea to contend with too.
Now I think they'll not like having to defend when/if we can attack with 15 so it will be interesting to see how it pans out.
Kerry have by far a more potent attack than Derry and I would argue Derry have a much better defensive setup than Kerry (even though Kerry were defensively excellent against Tyrone). It has the makings of a tight game, but Kerry could potentially blow us out of the water too as apart from Dublin, I don't think we've played any top level teams this year and we haven't been that impressive in any game.
No better time than to pull out the performance of the year than in an AISF though!

It's the hope that kills you   :D

We have Joe McQuillan in charge once again.

Didnt see any real questionable ref decisions from the Cork game as we were so awful. Though how did he not give a black card for the penalty

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 07, 2023, 06:25:07 PM
Didnt see any real questionable ref decisions from the Cork game as we were so awful. Though how did he not give a bkack card for the penalty

Yeah, that was really the only contentious one over the 70mins.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 07, 2023, 06:25:07 PM
Didnt see any real questionable ref decisions from the Cork game as we were so awful. Though how did he not give a black card for the penalty

For it to be a black card and a penalty it has to be a black card offence (normally this is a pull down to the ground).  It doesn't matter how "cynical" the foul is, unless it meets the definition of a black card then it won't be a black card just because it's a penalty.
A push in the back is not a black card offence.

I can't believe how poorly understood that rule is by commentators and pundits.

Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 07, 2023, 09:20:22 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 07, 2023, 06:25:07 PM
Didnt see any real questionable ref decisions from the Cork game as we were so awful. Though how did he not give a black card for the penalty

For it to be a black card and a penalty it has to be a black card offence (normally this is a pull down to the ground).  It doesn't matter how "cynical" the foul is, unless it meets the definition of a black card then it won't be a black card just because it's a penalty.
A push in the back is not a black card offence.

I can't believe how poorly understood that rule is by commentators and pundits.

There was arguably 2 black offenses in the 1 move. The hand trip followed by the 2nd which was more borderline, there was a shunt in the back but the Cork man did have his arms around McGuigan

Quote from: JoG2 on July 07, 2023, 09:26:55 PM

Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 07, 2023, 09:20:22 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 07, 2023, 06:25:07 PM
Didnt see any real questionable ref decisions from the Cork game as we were so awful. Though how did he not give a black card for the penalty

For it to be a black card and a penalty it has to be a black card offence (normally this is a pull down to the ground).  It doesn't matter how "cynical" the foul is, unless it meets the definition of a black card then it won't be a black card just because it's a penalty.
A push in the back is not a black card offence.

I can't believe how poorly understood that rule is by commentators and pundits.

There was arguably 2 black offenses in the 1 move. The hand trip followed by the 2nd which was more borderline, there was a shunt in the back but the Cork man did have his arms around McGuigan

Exactly this...

Seemed to be 2 fouls by 2 seperate players....Ref missed the pull to the foot as one of the fouls (?) perhaps....

Will Meenagh be given another year regardless of the result.
Will he want it - a genuine question. I think he has done great.

Quote from: rrhf on July 07, 2023, 11:18:49 PM
Will Meenagh be given another year regardless of the result.
Will he want it - a genuine question. I think he has done great.

Have nothing but respect for the man....

It's bound to have been a really hard year for him...incredibly difficult...

I'd say the decision will rest with him....

Rules understood fine, the 1st Cork player ankle tapped him and he was going down, the 2nd just jumped on him, maybe u should watch it again.

It be manner of opinion on the manager, I think Derry fell away since Gallagher left, Shocking last week, poor against Clare, good against Donegal, poor against Monaghan, buck average against Armagh. I suppose it come down to what sort of game the Kerry  game is.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 08, 2023, 01:20:09 PM
It be manner of opinion on the manager, I think Derry fell away since Gallagher left, Shocking last week, poor against Clare, good against Donegal, poor against Monaghan, buck average against Armagh. I suppose it come down to what sort of game the Kerry  game is.

Performance levels have definitely dipped since Gallagher left.
Hopefully the magnitude of the occasion will help motivate players to play to the max of their ability and intensity.

Quote from: tbrick18 on July 08, 2023, 02:00:37 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 08, 2023, 01:20:09 PM
It be manner of opinion on the manager, I think Derry fell away since Gallagher left, Shocking last week, poor against Clare, good against Donegal, poor against Monaghan, buck average against Armagh. I suppose it come down to what sort of game the Kerry  game is.

Performance levels have definitely dipped since Gallagher left.
Hopefully the magnitude of the occasion will help motivate players to play to the max of their ability and intensity.

Not sure that's really the case.
Ulster final was what it was, definite impact on what had went on all week, plus Armagh got tactics right fir a while.
Monaghan - definite drop off, but again, element of anti-climax going to a half full Celtic park to play Monaghan again after the emotions of the ulster final.
Donegal - good performance
Clare - did what they had to do - was the performance against Clare in the league any better?
Cork - again, looked comfortable throughout in difficult conditions, did enough.
Gallagher did a fine job getting the squad to commit, outlining a tactical approach and innovations, but I'm not sure that his 'motivational' approach along the line added much, and even if it did at some point, it was bound to be wearing thin by this stage. His major failing was in not developing a squad, the win and hammer it home mentality which we saw that throughout the league wasn't helpful. In games that were never in doubt, he repeatedly waited until very late before making his 2 or 3 subs, showing no trust on the bench whatsoever,
Next Sunday will show us where we're at and inform us on how far our style can take us, there'll be no excuses and I don't think anyone will doubt the appetite or motivation of the players. These guys have given up a hell of a lot to be where they are and get this chance and I'd be surprised if the absence of Gallagher running up and down the sideline roaring at them would add much to their commitment.

Great post. From what I hear the players like Meenagh and Muldoon, and their approach is every bit as professional.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 12:13:04 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

Yep, 1958 All Ireland Semi Final.....

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 12:13:04 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

.AISF 1958 .

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 12:13:04 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

Who?

McKaigue and McEvoy not to mention Rogers in an emergency - are more than big enough and hairy enough to deal with high ball you would think? If any ball breaks there will be 27 Derry men on it also..

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 12:13:04 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

Yea the also beat Kerry 2 -11 to 1-13 (after extra time)  in the 1984 Centenary at Tuam .... Damian Cassidy was the star and scored one of the Goals i think

Quote from: onefineday on July 09, 2023, 09:15:42 AM

Quote from: tbrick18 on July 08, 2023, 02:00:37 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 08, 2023, 01:20:09 PM
It be manner of opinion on the manager, I think Derry fell away since Gallagher left, Shocking last week, poor against Clare, good against Donegal, poor against Monaghan, buck average against Armagh. I suppose it come down to what sort of game the Kerry  game is.

Performance levels have definitely dipped since Gallagher left.
Hopefully the magnitude of the occasion will help motivate players to play to the max of their ability and intensity.

Not sure that's really the case.
Ulster final was what it was, definite impact on what had went on all week, plus Armagh got tactics right fir a while.
Monaghan - definite drop off, but again, element of anti-climax going to a half full Celtic park to play Monaghan again after the emotions of the ulster final.
Donegal - good performance
Clare - did what they had to do - was the performance against Clare in the league any better?
Cork - again, looked comfortable throughout in difficult conditions, did enough.
Gallagher did a fine job getting the squad to commit, outlining a tactical approach and innovations, but I'm not sure that his 'motivational' approach along the line added much, and even if it did at some point, it was bound to be wearing thin by this stage. His major failing was in not developing a squad, the win and hammer it home mentality which we saw that throughout the league wasn't helpful. In games that were never in doubt, he repeatedly waited until very late before making his 2 or 3 subs, showing no trust on the bench whatsoever,
Next Sunday will show us where we're at and inform us on how far our style can take us, there'll be no excuses and I don't think anyone will doubt the appetite or motivation of the players. These guys have given up a hell of a lot to be where they are and get this chance and I'd be surprised if the absence of Gallagher running up and down the sideline roaring at them would add much to their commitment.

I certainly think that Gallagher along the line made sure that no-one switched off during a match.
For example (and I dont like picking out individual players), Nial Loughlin would at times not track back enough. Gallagher certainly kept him on his toes and if he didn't track the whole ground would have heard Gallagher. We miss that at the moment I feel.
Not for a second trying to take away from Meenagh here, from what I understand he was instrumental in progressing Derry through the divisions and there's no doubt he knows his football and the players like him.
I think we are just missing that wee ruthless edge from management, the likes of Jack O'Connor has it for example.

As for Gallagher not developing a squad, I feel the squad is made up of the best players in the county currently, with the exception of 1 or 2 like Emmet Bradley. Do we want an inflated squad with players who will probably never make it, or a core of players who all have realistic chances? I'd rather the core we have with 3-4 players to come in. We are short a couple due to injury in McWilliams and one of the Downey's, with them back the squad will look much better. We also have players who can do a job in multiple positions which helps manage the squad size. Rodgers can play from Full back to MF, McKinnless can do a job in MF as well as half back, any of our wing backs/forwards can interchange. The only place we are really light is the FF line - but we do have Murray there who I think is fantastic.
So I do think we have options there.

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 10, 2023, 03:01:36 PM

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 12:13:04 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

Who?

McKaigue and McEvoy not to mention Rogers in an emergency - are more than big enough and hairy enough to deal with high ball you would think? If any ball breaks there will be 27 Derry men on it also..

I think Clifford & Geaney would have a significant advantage aerially over McEvoy & McKaigue myself. Lets see.

Quote from: Real Talk on July 10, 2023, 03:11:23 PM

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 12:13:04 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

Yea the also beat Kerry 2 -11 to 1-13 (after extra time)  in the 1984 Centenary at Tuam .... Damian Cassidy was the star and scored one of the Goals i think

I know it's only the league, but forgot about this one https://munster.gaa.ie/event/allianz-football-league-division-1-kerry-v-derry/

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 12:13:04 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

This game will come down to whether Derry's flair and creativity up front for which they've been lauded this season can overcome the ultra defensive setup of paddy tallys kerry. Derry have shown a fantastic ability to open up packed defences but came unstuck in last year's semifinal when galway came with an ultra defensive setup. Unfortunately I think Kerry will copy that approach and it will inevitably curtail our scoring chances. At the other end Derry will be well organised but it's impossible to totally cancel out Clifford.If we limit him there are so many other threats but hopefully we can be close.

Quote from: seanyb on July 10, 2023, 03:25:01 PM

Quote from: Real Talk on July 10, 2023, 03:11:23 PM

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 12:13:04 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

Yea the also beat Kerry 2 -11 to 1-13 (after extra time)  in the 1984 Centenary at Tuam .... Damian Cassidy was the star and scored one of the Goals i think

I know it's only the league, but forgot about this one https://munster.gaa.ie/event/allianz-football-league-division-1-kerry-v-derry/

Beat them im the 2008 League final.
Gooch and Donaghey were in their prime that year.

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 03:22:33 PM

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 10, 2023, 03:01:36 PM

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 12:13:04 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

Who?

McKaigue and McEvoy not to mention Rogers in an emergency - are more than big enough and hairy enough to deal with high ball you would think? If any ball breaks there will be 27 Derry men on it also..

I think Clifford & Geaney would have a significant advantage aerially over McEvoy & McKaigue myself. Lets see.

The fact that McKaigue is taller than Geaney and McEvoy taller that Clifford should help a wee bit.

Jack Barry and Diarmuid O'Connor were both on Na Gaeil team beaten by Steelstown in the All Ireland Intermediate semi-final last year.  They will hold no fear for Doire!! 

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 03:22:33 PM

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 10, 2023, 03:01:36 PM

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 12:13:04 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

Who?

McKaigue and McEvoy not to mention Rogers in an emergency - are more than big enough and hairy enough to deal with high ball you would think? If any ball breaks there will be 27 Derry men on it also..

I think Clifford & Geaney would have a significant advantage aerially over McEvoy & McKaigue myself. Lets see.

Shur poor ol Paul is so old he can't jump much at this stage and David is struggling for form.

How many players featured in the 2017 and the 2020 AI minor finals between both sides?

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 10, 2023, 04:14:48 PM

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 03:22:33 PM

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 10, 2023, 03:01:36 PM

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 12:13:04 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

Who?

McKaigue and McEvoy not to mention Rogers in an emergency - are more than big enough and hairy enough to deal with high ball you would think? If any ball breaks there will be 27 Derry men on it also..

I think Clifford & Geaney would have a significant advantage aerially over McEvoy & McKaigue myself. Lets see.

Shur poor ol Paul is so old he can't jump much at this stage and David is struggling for form.

Ye may as well just concede the game and save yourselves the cost of a ticket. No point showing up for what's sure to be a walk over for Derry  ;D ::) :P

Quote from: tbrick18 on July 10, 2023, 04:27:22 PM

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 10, 2023, 04:14:48 PM

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 03:22:33 PM

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 10, 2023, 03:01:36 PM

Quote from: God14 on July 10, 2023, 12:13:04 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 03, 2023, 08:41:59 PM
It will be a difficult approach I feel, tactically do Derry stick with cautious defensive early approach and take advantages of counter attacking Kerry?

Or do they say, f**k it, let's go out and die with our boots on and unlock the chains?

Derry will definitely go with the cautious defensive approach. In fact, i think they go back to the tactics that served them well in 2022. Ultra defensive, intense, counter attacking. All 15 within their own 45. 2023 has saw them commit bodies further forward, but this approach will be cast aside on Sunday.
Glass in particular will have to maintain a position quite close to his full back line. Derry will be susceptible to direct high ball into Guiney and D Clifford.

Have Derry senior footballers ever beaten Kerry in a championship match in their history?

Who?

McKaigue and McEvoy not to mention Rogers in an emergency - are more than big enough and hairy enough to deal with high ball you would think? If any ball breaks there will be 27 Derry men on it also..

I think Clifford & Geaney would have a significant advantage aerially over McEvoy & McKaigue myself. Lets see.

Shur poor ol Paul is so old he can't jump much at this stage and David is struggling for form.

Ye may as well just concede the game and save yourselves the cost of a ticket. No point showing up for what's sure to be a walk over for Derry  ;D ::) :P

You do know at this point that he is the WUM with about 10 different names.

Quote from: HiMucker on July 10, 2023, 04:23:35 PM
How many players featured in the 2017 and the 2020 AI minor finals between both sides?

From 2017:  Conor McCluskey, Pádraig McGrogan, Ben McCarron, [Oisín McWilliams] from starting 15; Odhrán Lynch agus Declan Cassidy among subs.

Quote from: HiMucker on July 10, 2023, 04:23:35 PM
How many players featured in the 2017 and the 2020 AI minor finals between both sides?

2017: David Cliff, Diarmuid O'Connor, Chris O'Donoghue
Too early for 2020 crew yet!

Sides met in 2015 minor semi: Jason Foley, Gavin White, Seánie O'Shea were playing. That was a tight, tough game. Was virtually the final as Kerry wiped Tipp in final. Glass and Shane McGuigan (maybe more) played for Derry. Mark O'Connor was Kerry's standout player really. Such a loss at the moment.

Also met in 2016 which was a decent game also. O'Shea, Clifford still there were joined by Graham O'Sullivan, Mike Breen, Dara Moynihan. Stefan Okunbor, currently injured, came on also.

Edit: you also have the 2016 Hogan cup final of course in which Clifford, Moynihan, Chris O'Donoghue faced Glass, McGuigan et all.

Good bit of history between a few of the players when you look at it!

Hopefully Clifford won't cheat to get Glass sent off this time!

Eamonn Sweeney: Derry versus Cork may attain legendary status - the most boring championship game ever played
Here, in full view, was damning proof that things can't go on like this

'Derry and Cork's huffing and puffing demolished the flimsy arguments for leaving the game as it is.' Photo: Brendan Moran/Sportsfile
'Derry and Cork's huffing and puffing demolished the flimsy arguments for leaving the game as it is.' Photo: Brendan Moran/Sportsfile

Eamonn Sweeney
Sun 9 Jul 2023 at 02:30
Describing this year's football championship as "intriguing", or "compelling", or "absorbing", makes you sound like an auctioneer telling a client that a broom cupboard is actually a cosy one-person studio apartment with unique character. Nobody falls for that one anymore.
Derry versus Cork may attain legendary status. Generations to come will be told, "You think that was boring? You don't know what boredom means kid. You should have been there for Derry and Cork in 2023."

Last Sunday's quarter-final was the 1977 Dublin-Kerry semi-final in reverse, an inglorious encapsulation of everything amiss with its era.

What will go on the lowlights reel? Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. Along with the 33-pass move shortly afterwards and the briefly interrupted 31-pass combo so absurdly convoluted a player injured himself by colliding with the ref.

Then there was the spell which began in the 54th minute, with Derry passing the ball 20 times before being penalised for over-carrying. Cork got the ball and passed it 18 times in a minute before bringing it over the sideline. Derry responded with 13 passes before getting done for over-carrying once more.

Those five minutes may have been the worst sustained spell of football ever witnessed in Croke Park. Yet we should praise Derry and Cork rather than bury them. They did football some service last Sunday. Their huffing and puffing demolished the flimsy arguments for leaving the game as it is.


​This was less a wake-up call than someone charging into the bedroom, yelling that the house is on fire and you've only a few seconds to get out.

The year has been full of bad football matches, but this one seemed to stand out, perhaps because some close finishes in the previous few weeks left the incorrigibly optimistic hoping things might turn out OK.

Monaghan's meeting with Armagh was just as bad, but its exile to GAAGO inflicted it on a far smaller audience. The Mayo-Louth match was probably worse, but back then we hoped the knockout stages might be different.

Derry-Cork was lent symbolic significance by the venue. Here, in full view of everyone, was damning proof that things can't go on like this. Gaelic football was caught standing over the corpse of entertainment with a bloodied knife in its hands.

This year's championship has been accompanied by a strange soundtrack. An uneasy and anxious murmur ripples through the stands. There's an undercurrent of suspense, not so much 'what'll happen next' as 'will anything happen at all.'


From Agadoo to Lambada to Macarena, every summer has its big novelty hit. Gaelic football's 2023 smash is The Sound of Silence. The dance routine — sideways, back, a small bit forward, quickly back and sideways again — is a killer.

The most tedious stretches of Sunday's game saw players in ambling, dawdling and strolling mode. Even the man in possession joined the promenade. They too seemed to be waiting for something to happen.

Accentuating the positive in such circumstances can make you sound silly. Paul Flynn's constant declarations in the Mayo-Louth game that the home team had a great opportunity to work it out to the sides, then back into the middle and then off the shoulder made him sound like a Peter Mark stylist gone rogue.

​Enda McGinley suggested Laois would be focussing on the positives when they were 24 points in arrears to Down, a reading perhaps disproved by manager Billy Sheehan's resignation a few days later. Flynn, McGinley et al mean well. Positivity is often an admirable trait. But applying lipstick to this pig of a championship doesn't help anyone in the long run. The road to recovery begins with the recognition that you're at rock bottom.

Last Sunday's farrago filled me with sadness. I've watched some of those players for many years here in West Cork. Brian O'Driscoll, Ruairí Deane, Rory Maguire, John O'Rourke, Brian Hurley — these are all fine, admirable and honest footballers.


They can kick points, elude opponents, ship challenges, fetch high ball and execute difficult skills while moving at top speed. Yet they're being ground down by the murder machine of modern inter-county football.

I've also seen their manager John Cleary send out teams which played in the best and most adventurous traditions of the game. Now he too seems defeated by what football has become. It was like watching a man of conscience finally submit his spirit to the diktats of a totalitarian state. What option does he have?

​That such people have learned to love the blanket defence is the greatest argument for fundamental rule changes. None of the players, or managers, trapped in the current straitjacket started off wanting to play like this. They'd have hoped to display their gifts to the full on the biggest stages, to expand rather than constrict the game's possibilities. That simply isn't possible now.

Derry perhaps cut an even more tragic figure than Cork because they have the ability to play an infinitely more expansive game. The most striking proof of this came when, stung by the concession of a goal, they tore Cork apart to immediately reply in kind.

There were also a couple of marvellous late long-range points from Brendan Rogers where you could practically see him decide the messing had gone far enough. Yet the immensely exciting Shane McGuigan was rendered ineffective by the ponderousness of his team's build-up.


Derry may point to two Ulster titles in a row. But Donegal did the same under Declan Bonner and left an overwhelming impression of unfulfilled potential because a lack of adventure prevented them going any further. The Oak Leaf County's best chance of beating Kerry next Sunday would be to emulate Tyrone in 2021 and take the game to the Kingdom. They might win and we could enjoy a thriller.

It's more likely that their focus will be on frustrating Kerry. In which case next weekend's two semi-finals will add yet more drops to the vast ocean of disappointment which has been the 2023 football championship.

Football should be enjoyed not endured. This has been some waste of a season.

Quote from: God14 on July 11, 2023, 08:20:04 AM
Eamonn Sweeney: Derry versus Cork may attain legendary status - the most boring championship game ever played
Here, in full view, was damning proof that things can't go on like this

'Derry and Cork's huffing and puffing demolished the flimsy arguments for leaving the game as it is.' Photo: Brendan Moran/Sportsfile
'Derry and Cork's huffing and puffing demolished the flimsy arguments for leaving the game as it is.' Photo: Brendan Moran/Sportsfile

Eamonn Sweeney
Sun 9 Jul 2023 at 02:30
Describing this year's football championship as "intriguing", or "compelling", or "absorbing", makes you sound like an auctioneer telling a client that a broom cupboard is actually a cosy one-person studio apartment with unique character. Nobody falls for that one anymore.
Derry versus Cork may attain legendary status. Generations to come will be told, "You think that was boring? You don't know what boredom means kid. You should have been there for Derry and Cork in 2023."

Last Sunday's quarter-final was the 1977 Dublin-Kerry semi-final in reverse, an inglorious encapsulation of everything amiss with its era.

What will go on the lowlights reel? Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. Along with the 33-pass move shortly afterwards and the briefly interrupted 31-pass combo so absurdly convoluted a player injured himself by colliding with the ref.

Then there was the spell which began in the 54th minute, with Derry passing the ball 20 times before being penalised for over-carrying. Cork got the ball and passed it 18 times in a minute before bringing it over the sideline. Derry responded with 13 passes before getting done for over-carrying once more.

Those five minutes may have been the worst sustained spell of football ever witnessed in Croke Park. Yet we should praise Derry and Cork rather than bury them. They did football some service last Sunday. Their huffing and puffing demolished the flimsy arguments for leaving the game as it is.


​This was less a wake-up call than someone charging into the bedroom, yelling that the house is on fire and you've only a few seconds to get out.

The year has been full of bad football matches, but this one seemed to stand out, perhaps because some close finishes in the previous few weeks left the incorrigibly optimistic hoping things might turn out OK.

Monaghan's meeting with Armagh was just as bad, but its exile to GAAGO inflicted it on a far smaller audience. The Mayo-Louth match was probably worse, but back then we hoped the knockout stages might be different.

Derry-Cork was lent symbolic significance by the venue. Here, in full view of everyone, was damning proof that things can't go on like this. Gaelic football was caught standing over the corpse of entertainment with a bloodied knife in its hands.

This year's championship has been accompanied by a strange soundtrack. An uneasy and anxious murmur ripples through the stands. There's an undercurrent of suspense, not so much 'what'll happen next' as 'will anything happen at all.'


From Agadoo to Lambada to Macarena, every summer has its big novelty hit. Gaelic football's 2023 smash is The Sound of Silence. The dance routine — sideways, back, a small bit forward, quickly back and sideways again — is a killer.

The most tedious stretches of Sunday's game saw players in ambling, dawdling and strolling mode. Even the man in possession joined the promenade. They too seemed to be waiting for something to happen.

Accentuating the positive in such circumstances can make you sound silly. Paul Flynn's constant declarations in the Mayo-Louth game that the home team had a great opportunity to work it out to the sides, then back into the middle and then off the shoulder made him sound like a Peter Mark stylist gone rogue.

​Enda McGinley suggested Laois would be focussing on the positives when they were 24 points in arrears to Down, a reading perhaps disproved by manager Billy Sheehan's resignation a few days later. Flynn, McGinley et al mean well. Positivity is often an admirable trait. But applying lipstick to this pig of a championship doesn't help anyone in the long run. The road to recovery begins with the recognition that you're at rock bottom.

Last Sunday's farrago filled me with sadness. I've watched some of those players for many years here in West Cork. Brian O'Driscoll, Ruairí Deane, Rory Maguire, John O'Rourke, Brian Hurley — these are all fine, admirable and honest footballers.


They can kick points, elude opponents, ship challenges, fetch high ball and execute difficult skills while moving at top speed. Yet they're being ground down by the murder machine of modern inter-county football.

I've also seen their manager John Cleary send out teams which played in the best and most adventurous traditions of the game. Now he too seems defeated by what football has become. It was like watching a man of conscience finally submit his spirit to the diktats of a totalitarian state. What option does he have?

​That such people have learned to love the blanket defence is the greatest argument for fundamental rule changes. None of the players, or managers, trapped in the current straitjacket started off wanting to play like this. They'd have hoped to display their gifts to the full on the biggest stages, to expand rather than constrict the game's possibilities. That simply isn't possible now.

Derry perhaps cut an even more tragic figure than Cork because they have the ability to play an infinitely more expansive game. The most striking proof of this came when, stung by the concession of a goal, they tore Cork apart to immediately reply in kind.

There were also a couple of marvellous late long-range points from Brendan Rogers where you could practically see him decide the messing had gone far enough. Yet the immensely exciting Shane McGuigan was rendered ineffective by the ponderousness of his team's build-up.


Derry may point to two Ulster titles in a row. But Donegal did the same under Declan Bonner and left an overwhelming impression of unfulfilled potential because a lack of adventure prevented them going any further. The Oak Leaf County's best chance of beating Kerry next Sunday would be to emulate Tyrone in 2021 and take the game to the Kingdom. They might win and we could enjoy a thriller.

It's more likely that their focus will be on frustrating Kerry. In which case next weekend's two semi-finals will add yet more drops to the vast ocean of disappointment which has been the 2023 football championship.

Football should be enjoyed not endured. This has been some waste of a season.

0


What was he writing when Dublin were doing the same thing  under jim Gavin. Kerry also. Galway were the best thing since sliced bread until Armagh beat them , and sure Roscommon are only a season away from an all ireland .
The wrong teams are winning games is his problem.
Had Cork win this game he would be telling us that it was a joy to see a great Cork team exercise patience and skill to advance to an AI semi final.

Sorry thats not the case at all. Derry are playing a style of football which is just dire to watch, if your not from Derry. Of the top teams no one else is as defense orientated, systematic, and risk averse as Derry are. Now don't get me wrong, Tyrone played very alike Derry are playing now from 2014 to 2017. We got two Ulsters out of it as well and I tried to justify it at the time. Harte used to roll off the scores we got and ask commentators 'how is that defensive?'

But it was defensive, and it was dire. It got results but it was joyless.

And when you lose eventually, your left with a sickening feeling of not really having a cut at it at all. Watching Derry v Galway semi final last year reminded me so much of Tyrone v Dublin in 2017 semi final. Getting well bate & playing out the remainder of a contest defending the deficit on the score board.

It is what it is at this stage. Hopefully we can identify the correct rule changes going forward to bring the 'contest' back into football.

Quote from: God14 on July 11, 2023, 09:08:44 AM
Sorry thats not the case at all. Derry are playing a style of football which is just dire to watch, if your not from Derry. Of the top teams no one else is as defense orientated, systematic, and risk averse as Derry are. Now don't get me wrong, Tyrone played very alike Derry are playing now from 2014 to 2017. We got two Ulsters out of it as well and I tried to justify it at the time. Harte used to roll off the scores we got and ask commentators 'how is that defensive?'

But it was defensive, and it was dire. It got results but it was joyless.

And when you lose eventually, your left with a sickening feeling of not really having a cut at it at all. Watching Derry v Galway semi final last year reminded me so much of Tyrone v Dublin in 2017 semi final. Getting well bate & playing out the remainder of a contest defending the deficit on the score board.

It is what it is at this stage. Hopefully we can identify the correct rule changes going forward to bring the 'contest' back into football.

A Tyrone man trying to lecture other counties about a dire style of football. Catch yourself on!

Quote from: God14 on July 11, 2023, 08:20:04 AM
Eamonn Sweeney: Derry versus Cork may attain legendary status - the most boring championship game ever played
Here, in full view, was damning proof that things can't go on like this

'Derry and Cork's huffing and puffing demolished the flimsy arguments for leaving the game as it is.' Photo: Brendan Moran/Sportsfile
'Derry and Cork's huffing and puffing demolished the flimsy arguments for leaving the game as it is.' Photo: Brendan Moran/Sportsfile

Eamonn Sweeney
Sun 9 Jul 2023 at 02:30
Describing this year's football championship as "intriguing", or "compelling", or "absorbing", makes you sound like an auctioneer telling a client that a broom cupboard is actually a cosy one-person studio apartment with unique character. Nobody falls for that one anymore.
Derry versus Cork may attain legendary status. Generations to come will be told, "You think that was boring? You don't know what boredom means kid. You should have been there for Derry and Cork in 2023."

Last Sunday's quarter-final was the 1977 Dublin-Kerry semi-final in reverse, an inglorious encapsulation of everything amiss with its era.

What will go on the lowlights reel? Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. Along with the 33-pass move shortly afterwards and the briefly interrupted 31-pass combo so absurdly convoluted a player injured himself by colliding with the ref.

Then there was the spell which began in the 54th minute, with Derry passing the ball 20 times before being penalised for over-carrying. Cork got the ball and passed it 18 times in a minute before bringing it over the sideline. Derry responded with 13 passes before getting done for over-carrying once more.

Those five minutes may have been the worst sustained spell of football ever witnessed in Croke Park. Yet we should praise Derry and Cork rather than bury them. They did football some service last Sunday. Their huffing and puffing demolished the flimsy arguments for leaving the game as it is.


​This was less a wake-up call than someone charging into the bedroom, yelling that the house is on fire and you've only a few seconds to get out.

The year has been full of bad football matches, but this one seemed to stand out, perhaps because some close finishes in the previous few weeks left the incorrigibly optimistic hoping things might turn out OK.

Monaghan's meeting with Armagh was just as bad, but its exile to GAAGO inflicted it on a far smaller audience. The Mayo-Louth match was probably worse, but back then we hoped the knockout stages might be different.

Derry-Cork was lent symbolic significance by the venue. Here, in full view of everyone, was damning proof that things can't go on like this. Gaelic football was caught standing over the corpse of entertainment with a bloodied knife in its hands.

This year's championship has been accompanied by a strange soundtrack. An uneasy and anxious murmur ripples through the stands. There's an undercurrent of suspense, not so much 'what'll happen next' as 'will anything happen at all.'


From Agadoo to Lambada to Macarena, every summer has its big novelty hit. Gaelic football's 2023 smash is The Sound of Silence. The dance routine — sideways, back, a small bit forward, quickly back and sideways again — is a killer.

The most tedious stretches of Sunday's game saw players in ambling, dawdling and strolling mode. Even the man in possession joined the promenade. They too seemed to be waiting for something to happen.

Accentuating the positive in such circumstances can make you sound silly. Paul Flynn's constant declarations in the Mayo-Louth game that the home team had a great opportunity to work it out to the sides, then back into the middle and then off the shoulder made him sound like a Peter Mark stylist gone rogue.

​Enda McGinley suggested Laois would be focussing on the positives when they were 24 points in arrears to Down, a reading perhaps disproved by manager Billy Sheehan's resignation a few days later. Flynn, McGinley et al mean well. Positivity is often an admirable trait. But applying lipstick to this pig of a championship doesn't help anyone in the long run. The road to recovery begins with the recognition that you're at rock bottom.

Last Sunday's farrago filled me with sadness. I've watched some of those players for many years here in West Cork. Brian O'Driscoll, Ruairí Deane, Rory Maguire, John O'Rourke, Brian Hurley — these are all fine, admirable and honest footballers.


They can kick points, elude opponents, ship challenges, fetch high ball and execute difficult skills while moving at top speed. Yet they're being ground down by the murder machine of modern inter-county football.

I've also seen their manager John Cleary send out teams which played in the best and most adventurous traditions of the game. Now he too seems defeated by what football has become. It was like watching a man of conscience finally submit his spirit to the diktats of a totalitarian state. What option does he have?

​That such people have learned to love the blanket defence is the greatest argument for fundamental rule changes. None of the players, or managers, trapped in the current straitjacket started off wanting to play like this. They'd have hoped to display their gifts to the full on the biggest stages, to expand rather than constrict the game's possibilities. That simply isn't possible now.

Derry perhaps cut an even more tragic figure than Cork because they have the ability to play an infinitely more expansive game. The most striking proof of this came when, stung by the concession of a goal, they tore Cork apart to immediately reply in kind.

There were also a couple of marvellous late long-range points from Brendan Rogers where you could practically see him decide the messing had gone far enough. Yet the immensely exciting Shane McGuigan was rendered ineffective by the ponderousness of his team's build-up.


Derry may point to two Ulster titles in a row. But Donegal did the same under Declan Bonner and left an overwhelming impression of unfulfilled potential because a lack of adventure prevented them going any further. The Oak Leaf County's best chance of beating Kerry next Sunday would be to emulate Tyrone in 2021 and take the game to the Kingdom. They might win and we could enjoy a thriller.

It's more likely that their focus will be on frustrating Kerry. In which case next weekend's two semi-finals will add yet more drops to the vast ocean of disappointment which has been the 2023 football championship.

Football should be enjoyed not endured. This has been some waste of a season.

Ah, the murder machine of modern day inter-county football.

A great quote by Sweeney via Pearse.

Quote from: God14 on July 11, 2023, 09:08:44 AM
Sorry thats not the case at all. Derry are playing a style of football which is just dire to watch, if your not from Derry. Of the top teams no one else is as defense orientated, systematic, and risk averse as Derry are. Now don't get me wrong, Tyrone played very alike Derry are playing now from 2014 to 2017. We got two Ulsters out of it as well and I tried to justify it at the time. Harte used to roll off the scores we got and ask commentators 'how is that defensive?'

But it was defensive, and it was dire. It got results but it was joyless.

And when you lose eventually, your left with a sickening feeling of not really having a cut at it at all. Watching Derry v Galway semi final last year reminded me so much of Tyrone v Dublin in 2017 semi final. Getting well bate & playing out the remainder of a contest defending the deficit on the score board.

It is what it is at this stage. Hopefully we can identify the correct rule changes going forward to bring the 'contest' back into football.

Galway and Roscommon are even more defensive.  All the pundits were admiring Galway,, sure they had the AI in the bag Dublin  were at it for 6 years. They are heralded as being the greatest team ever. Kerry still pack the defense, watch them come this weekend. None of these teams are vilified like Ulster teams. But you chose not to address any of that.

Whilst I don't agree with what Sweeney has said on the whole, there's no doubting the Derry v Cork game was dire.
Derry did not play well at all imo.
We played better in a league game against Dublin in Celtic Park.
The game had an air of "we'll win this game no matter how we play" about it from Derry and that's a dangerous mindset.
Cork are a good side, but they looked defeated from early on too so the game just petered out.

The main issue I have with the article is that half the teams in the country are playing the same way.
Galway, Tyrone, Kerry (to a lesser extent but have they ever been more defensive?), even Dublin.
Its the chosen tactic of most top teams now and no doubt over time it will evolve into something else.

Derry this year are more attacking than last year, so we have already evolved. But I also have not doubt that tactics and systems are built to make the most of the players available. If we had a glut of star forwards I'd imagine our tactics would change.
And sure isnt that the role of management, to get the most out of the players available?

oh and one more thing.....change the rules?
There hasn't been one decent rule change for the betterment of the game in the last 10 years.
The black card could be a good rule, but it is inconsistently applied and refs seem to not want to use it.
The mark brings nothing to attacking play - it could be argued that it encourages long kickouts I suppose.

The single biggest issue with rules is the inconsistent application of them and a complete inability for players to tackle/shoulder an opponent without it being deemed a free. If every physical contact is going to incur a free kick, then off course teams are going to avoid contact.

Contrast football with the hurling, players are allowed to be physical in the tackle in hurling and can make a shoulder without it being constantly blew up.
If we allow the physical nature to return, perhaps players will not be adverse to tackling or to being tackled which for me add excitement and entertainment as it becomes more of an acceptable risk/reward scenario. Instead of introducing new rules, lets take the controls off a bit and let them at it.

Quote from: tbrick18 on July 11, 2023, 09:45:58 AM
Whilst I don't agree with what Sweeney has said on the whole, there's no doubting the Derry v Cork game was dire.
Derry did not play well at all imo.
We played better in a league game against Dublin in Celtic Park.
The game had an air of "we'll win this game no matter how we play" about it from Derry and that's a dangerous mindset.
Cork are a good side, but they looked defeated from early on too so the game just petered out.

The main issue I have with the article is that half the teams in the country are playing the same way.
Galway, Tyrone, Kerry (to a lesser extent but have they ever been more defensive?), even Dublin.
Its the chosen tactic of most top teams now and no doubt over time it will evolve into something else.

Derry this year are more attacking than last year, so we have already evolved. But I also have not doubt that tactics and systems are built to make the most of the players available. If we had a glut of star forwards I'd imagine our tactics would change.
And sure isnt that the role of management, to get the most out of the players available?

Had Cork win that game the article would have had a much different slant. Its the anti ulster bias that irks me nobody writes these articles about Galway Dublin Roscommon kerry.
Derry have few top forwards unlike Galway, Tyrone  Armagh Mayo Cork.
But playing to tgeir strengths has brought tgem to a 2nd AI final.
That is what good teams do , Mc Williams and Murray were fit and available things will change.

Quote from: tbrick18 on July 11, 2023, 09:45:58 AM
Whilst I don't agree with what Sweeney has said on the whole, there's no doubting the Derry v Cork game was dire.
Derry did not play well at all imo.
We played better in a league game against Dublin in Celtic Park.
The game had an air of "we'll win this game no matter how we play" about it from Derry and that's a dangerous mindset.
Cork are a good side, but they looked defeated from early on too so the game just petered out.

The main issue I have with the article is that half the teams in the country are playing the same way.
Galway, Tyrone, Kerry (to a lesser extent but have they ever been more defensive?), even Dublin.
Its the chosen tactic of most top teams now and no doubt over time it will evolve into something else.

Derry this year are more attacking than last year, so we have already evolved. But I also have not doubt that tactics and systems are built to make the most of the players available. If we had a glut of star forwards I'd imagine our tactics would change.
And sure isnt that the role of management, to get the most out of the players available?

All teams play football like this now. Basketball, sideways passing up the field as the oppositions 15 players retreat/sprint back to their own half and encamp around the D.

Cover space and block off areas until the other team gets a shot off.  Then it's done in reverse...and repeat...and repeat.

Brutal stuff. 

I really hope Derry go this week-end and have a proper cut of Kerry.  Be more expanive and attacking instead of a laboured basketball build up looking for Mc Guigan on the cut/loop.  Even the terminolgy is so basketball like.

Ban the handpass.

"Derry perhaps cut an even more tragic figure than Cork because they have the ability to play an infinitely more expansive game."

I suppose column inches need to filled and buttons clicked, but this really was a case of Derry just needing to progress to the semi final. Cork were kept at arms length and never ever looked like winning. Cork score a goal, to bring the bare minimum between the sides, Derry drop a gear and score a goal... Same with points when needed.
I think we're in a very good place to give Kerry their full of it, I've said it already but there will only be a kick of the ball  between the teams in this game.
We're never far from the Tyronies thoughts  ;D

Anti Ulster crap and as other posters have alluded to the narrative would be different if it was a different county playing like this. All teams defend the same with nearly all their men inside their 45 that includes Derry, Roscommon ,Cork, Armagh, Kerry, Galway. Dublin press higher than most teams when they are defending but usually still have everyone behind the ball.

Derry never concede the kick out, they attack with all 15 players, they were the first team to get all 6 forwards inside their 21 when attacking. They are quite structured in attack which can be accused as boring but there are elements of their attacking game that is more adventurous than anyone. Sick listening to lazy analysis that they are just a blanket defence like Donegal 2011 or Mickey Harte's 2017 Tyrone.

Also on that note it's lazy analysis about Donegal by most people as they played fantastic football in 2012 and everyone just keeps referring to 2011. 2014 Kerry killed the AI final not Donegal!

Quote from: Mario on July 11, 2023, 11:16:49 AM
Anti Ulster crap and as other posters have alluded to the narrative would be different if it was a different county playing like this. All teams defend the same with nearly all their men inside their 45 that includes Derry, Roscommon ,Cork, Armagh, Kerry, Galway. Dublin press higher than most teams when they are defending but usually still have everyone behind the ball.

Derry never concede the kick out, they attack with all 15 players, they were the first team to get all 6 forwards inside their 21 when attacking. They are quite structured in attack which can be accused as boring but there are elements of their attacking game that is more adventurous than anyone. Sick listening to lazy analysis that they are just a blanket defence like Donegal 2011 or Mickey Harte's 2017 Tyrone.

I dont mind being misunderstood, can be to our advantage.
I late great Eamon Coleman said it best, "yous bais know nathin about football". Some these analysts would fall into that category.

Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 11, 2023, 01:02:25 PM
Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

Exactly. Should be ignored. He's a talented writer but hasn't a clue what he's looking at. All these publications are interested in now is clicks for ad money. He serves that purpose.

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 11, 2023, 01:02:25 PM
Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

"Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. "


Against Tyrone kerry passed the ball 40 times for almost 3 minutes before scoring the opening point.

And the conceded the Tyrone's kick outs almost in their entirety.
They flooded the defence and broke quickly.
Tyrone's inability to hold possession played right into their hands.
Any kick out of Kerry's own was followed by a multitude of passes also.
But nobody feels it necessary to comment on that.

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 11, 2023, 02:09:09 PM

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 11, 2023, 01:02:25 PM
Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

"Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. "


Against Tyrone kerry passed the ball 40 times for almost 3 minutes before scoring the opening point.

And the conceded the Tyrone's kick outs almost in their entirety.
They flooded the defence and broke quickly.
Tyrone's inability to hold possession played right into their hands.
Any kick out of Kerry's own was followed by a multitude of passes also.
But nobody feels it necessary to comment on that.

None of which refutes anything I said.

I said Derry pull 15 men inside the defensive 45 more than any of the teams in the quarter finals. THIS is the main cause of teams passing the ball laterally for prolonged periods, surely you realise this? Teams haven't decided to hold the ball for no reason when behind or early in a game.

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 11, 2023, 02:09:09 PM

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 11, 2023, 01:02:25 PM
Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

"Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. "


Against Tyrone kerry passed the ball 40 times for almost 3 minutes before scoring the opening point.

And the conceded the Tyrone's kick outs almost in their entirety.
They flooded the defence and broke quickly.
Tyrone's inability to hold possession played right into their hands.
Any kick out of Kerry's own was followed by a multitude of passes also.
But nobody feels it necessary to comment on that.

Exactly. Tyrone just don't have the line breakers anymore. Michael mckernan is their best and did break a line in first half and kicked a score. Tyrone were v wasteful with posesion and played into Kerry hands as took the short kick out which made it impossible to get quick ball to mccurry canavans. Derry are much better at playing against a full blanket defence as the way they place forces this type of game. I expect a tight game for a while and will be interesting to see what way it goes after that

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 11, 2023, 11:19:28 AM
Also on that note it's lazy analysis about Donegal by most people as they played fantastic football in 2012 and everyone just keeps referring to 2011. 2014 Kerry killed the AI final not Donegal!

Agreed lazy analysis and for some others short term memory loss.

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 11, 2023, 02:58:05 PM

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 11, 2023, 02:09:09 PM

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 11, 2023, 01:02:25 PM
Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

"Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. "


Against Tyrone kerry passed the ball 40 times for almost 3 minutes before scoring the opening point.

And the conceded the Tyrone's kick outs almost in their entirety.
They flooded the defence and broke quickly.
Tyrone's inability to hold possession played right into their hands.
Any kick out of Kerry's own was followed by a multitude of passes also.
But nobody feels it necessary to comment on that.

None of which refutes anything I said.

I said Derry pull 15 men inside the defensive 45 more than any of the teams in the quarter finals. THIS is the main cause of teams passing the ball laterally for prolonged periods, surely you realise this? Teams haven't decided to hold the ball for no reason when behind or early in a game.

Maybe what Derry should do, as a planned tactic is to choke tackle, pull and block the likes of the O'Sullivans, Morley, White, O'Connor so they can't build up any speed and momentum from the back, share out the yellow cards and hope McQuillan doesn't produce the yellows too early (because after all it is an AI semi)... This tactic has certainly worked for some teams for years.. A no brainer really, why would you allow a team the run on you??

Quote from: NotedObserver on July 11, 2023, 03:00:27 PM

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 11, 2023, 02:09:09 PM

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 11, 2023, 01:02:25 PM
Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

"Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. "


Against Tyrone kerry passed the ball 40 times for almost 3 minutes before scoring the opening point.

And the conceded the Tyrone's kick outs almost in their entirety.
They flooded the defence and broke quickly.
Tyrone's inability to hold possession played right into their hands.
Any kick out of Kerry's own was followed by a multitude of passes also.
But nobody feels it necessary to comment on that.

Exactly. Tyrone just don't have the line breakers anymore. Michael mckernan is their best and did break a line in first half and kicked a score. Tyrone were v wasteful with posesion and played into Kerry hands as took the short kick out which made it impossible to get quick ball to mccurry canavans. Derry are much better at playing against a full blanket defence as the way they place forces this type of game. I expect a tight game for a while and will be interesting to see what way it goes after that

Quite honestly, Tyrone played like a team that had bought into the hype, that regardless of the fact they had two horrific years, they were still the best team in Ulster.
At the 45 minute Kerry had turned tyrone over 15 times.
Once every 3 minutes and if possession was 50 50 , which it wasn't that is some inability to keep ball.

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 11, 2023, 02:58:05 PM

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 11, 2023, 02:09:09 PM

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 11, 2023, 01:02:25 PM
Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

"Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. "


Against Tyrone kerry passed the ball 40 times for almost 3 minutes before scoring the opening point.

And the conceded the Tyrone's kick outs almost in their entirety.
They flooded the defence and broke quickly.
Tyrone's inability to hold possession played right into their hands.
Any kick out of Kerry's own was followed by a multitude of passes also.
But nobody feels it necessary to comment on that.

None of which refutes anything I said.

I said Derry pull 15 men inside the defensive 45 more than any of the teams in the quarter finals. THIS is the main cause of teams passing the ball laterally for prolonged periods, surely you realise this? Teams haven't decided to hold the ball for no reason when behind or early in a game.

Do you think Doire should set up more like the 2017 Minor Final?!!  :D 
Seriously though, do you think Doire's set-up has served us well since we were in Division 4?  Now in Division 1; 2 Ulsters back to back, first this century.  Second All-Ireland semi-final in a row.  Cad é do thuairim?!

I comment on this after the game. Don't put much hope on us looking at the Cork game. Maybe Kerry have a off day and we come out all guns blazing.

Quote from: restorepride on July 11, 2023, 07:26:07 PM

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 11, 2023, 02:58:05 PM

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 11, 2023, 02:09:09 PM

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 11, 2023, 01:02:25 PM
Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

"Cork's opening salvo when they held the ball for three minutes, passed it 58 times and kicked it wide. "


Against Tyrone kerry passed the ball 40 times for almost 3 minutes before scoring the opening point.

And the conceded the Tyrone's kick outs almost in their entirety.
They flooded the defence and broke quickly.
Tyrone's inability to hold possession played right into their hands.
Any kick out of Kerry's own was followed by a multitude of passes also.
But nobody feels it necessary to comment on that.

None of which refutes anything I said.

I said Derry pull 15 men inside the defensive 45 more than any of the teams in the quarter finals. THIS is the main cause of teams passing the ball laterally for prolonged periods, surely you realise this? Teams haven't decided to hold the ball for no reason when behind or early in a game.

Do you think Doire should set up more like the 2017 Minor Final?!!  :D 
Seriously though, do you think Doire's set-up has served us well since we were in Division 4?  Now in Division 1; 2 Ulsters back to back, first this century.  Second All-Ireland semi-final in a row.  Cad é do thuairim?!

Ah no of course not. Read my first post quoted above - Derry are doing what suits them and it is has yielded a good dividend for them.

I don't think it wins you an All Ireland the system/tactical approach, unless you get really lucky. I could be wrong of course and eating my words before long but don't think so. This is year 3/4 now for this Derry group and I thought they would have evolved a bit more. Maybe Sunday is going to be the moment they take things a step further. We'll see.

By the way, the mid term future for Derry football looks better than almost every other county, which is clearly an indicator of massive work being done on the ground up there. So I fully expect Derry to be at the top table and winning an All Ireland in the very near future.

Where did they start off. Past 3/4 yrs to evolve, Division 4.

Derry will struggle against the Kerry blanket defence.

Quote from: shark on July 11, 2023, 01:16:21 PM

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 11, 2023, 01:02:25 PM
Good lord, Eamonn Sweeney is a randomer from Sligo who moved to West Cork a few years ago so gets a few yarns off a few fellas down there he regurgitates occasionally. He hasn't a bulls notion about Gaelic football, so not worth the energy dissecting what he said lads.

But on a point of order, no every other team does not routinely run back inside the 45 with 15 men. Dublin did it in the league a bit but changed tack and the high press of Mayo worked very well for them. Every team will get a lot of bodies behind the ball when needed of course so anyone from any county bemoaning this needn't look far but the Derry template (and Louth's is worse actually - don't even contest most kickouts) isn't good for the viewer you must admit. Derry don't care of course, they are merely trying to win and I don't blame them. They also attack in numbers, with great pace and in most games have a good range of scorers.

I think looking back at it Derry should possibly have scored 2-16 or so against Cork, who themselves were terrible in front of goal, so it could easily have been 2-16 to 1-13 and there would have been far less furore. If Derry sharpen up which I would expect then this game is potentially very close Sunday.

Exactly. Should be ignored. He's a talented writer but hasn't a clue what he's looking at. All these publications are interested in now is clicks for ad money. He serves that purpose.

It's hardly a ringing endorsement of a sport that it's only entertaining to those with a good knowledge of the tactical battle they're watching.
Roscommon were lambasted for the game v Dublin earlier this year, so it's not just anti-ulster. That said there wasn't much commentary on Galway who are very similar and there's little mention that everyone does it to an extent nowadays when it suits their needs.
While we're understandably blinded by Derry's recent success and probably make an argument that we're not the worst, that our attacking play can be inventive, dynamic and exciting, the game has to change or its long time appeal to players and spectators might we'll be in doubt.
We're now well advanced into the stage where every half ambitious club team is playing 15 back and long periods of keep ball break out at every level from junior football upwards. Change is needed, but we'll take two more games all the same.
As the prayer goes, make me pure, but not just ;) yet

Dublin and Kerry love it when teams come out all guns blazing and blow themselves out after 40 or 45 minutes or ones that are poorly organised and go home well beat with a patronizing pat on the head for 'playing the game the right way.

The Quarter finals Mayo and Tyrone showed what not to do and Monaghan and Derry should know with the correct strategy in place that gets the best out of their teams that can cause plenty of headaches for Kerry and Dublin at both ends of field could well mean two competitive semi finals this weekend.

Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 12, 2023, 12:31:31 AM
Derry will struggle against the Kerry blanket defence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpA0oPR_EOQ


Derry will struggle with Kerry's skill levels.

A strong Tyrone/Galbally running through that Kerry team with Paddy Tally turning them into winners with a defensive set up.

Only fair we link this instead of yours Seafoid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgmeS-HcHB8

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/12/darragh-o-se-anything-can-happen-in-an-all-ireland-semi-final-but-i-dont-see-derry-or-monaghan-winning/They will stretch Derry, who will have to come out and play at some point. It's just a matter of how much Kerry will stretch them by the end.

Quote from: WT4E on July 12, 2023, 07:22:29 AM
A strong Tyrone/Galbally running through that Kerry team with Paddy Tally turning them into winners with a defensive set up.

Only fair we link this instead of yours Seafoid

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgmeS-HcHB8

Good call.
The 2 women were friends. What a better.

Anything can happen on the day.
I really don't know if  Derry will win, but i hope. This idea that Derry can't play creative football is a fallacy.
They play to their strength and the system but every time in the last two years, bar two, when they went behind they expanded their game, and regained the lead, or leveled the score.
I really do hope that Jack o Connor and the Kerry players have the same derisory opinion of Derry that is prevalent on this thread and the Media in general.

For Derry what counts is the narrative. They need to do better than the Galway match last year. They won't be able to run the paranoid defence for 75 minutes. They need a plan B. They need to be accurate.They do not want to get hammered again. That would make the drive back to Derry very difficult.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/12/darragh-o-se-anything-can-happen-in-an-all-ireland-semi-final-but-i-dont-see-derry-or-monaghan-winning/
Kerry will just want to stick with their kicking game, same as they did against Tyrone. They will get chances, through David Clifford and Seánie O'Shea obviously, but they also got some good return from the bench the last day as well, through the likes of Tony Brosnan and Stephen O'Brien.

Do Derry have a kicking game?

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2023, 08:56:05 AM
For Derry what counts is the narrative. They need to do better than the Galway match last year. They won't be able to run the paranoid defence for 75 minutes. They need a plan B. They need to be accurate.They do not want to get hammered again. That would make the drive back to Derry very difficult.

Hopefully Kerry won't be as ultra defensive as galway were last year. I have a feeling Kerry will be very well set up though because of paddy tally. That is what I'd worry most about this game, that the creativity and flair of the Derry attack will be blunted by the Kerry set up.

Galway won well in the end last year due to 2 bad errors for goals. Derry should been 1.05 to no score up, not 3 pts. Galway didn't score for 25mins. Glass point not counted, Derry need 2 new forwards that common knowledge, it's the reason we can't actually expand more. Next year I expect Murray, McWillians and Downey to regularly start and they have more a cutting edge. Lad's are always injured alot though compared to the other players. Am just looking at not losing a game as bad as Mayo/ Tyrone, what's the point of it been a great game for the viewers if u beat out of the field.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 12, 2023, 10:25:53 AM
Galway won well in the end last year due to 2 bad errors for goals. Derry should been 1.05 to no score up, not 3 pts. Galway didn't score for 25mins. Glass point not counted, Derry need 2 new forwards that common knowledge, it's the reason we can't actually expand more. Next year I expect Murray, McWillians and Downey to regularly start and they have more a cutting edge. Lad's are always injured alot though compared to the other players. Am just looking at not losing a game as bad as Mayo/ Tyrone, what's the point of it been a great game for the viewers if u beat out of the field.

Derry don't have the best forwards individually but as a collective Derry create and take some brilliant scores. That is down to fantastic team play and great movement. Galway nullified that with a number of sweepers last year and Tally will probably do something similar with the Kerry defence.

Quote from: lenny on July 12, 2023, 11:01:43 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 12, 2023, 10:25:53 AM
Galway won well in the end last year due to 2 bad errors for goals. Derry should been 1.05 to no score up, not 3 pts. Galway didn't score for 25mins. Glass point not counted, Derry need 2 new forwards that common knowledge, it's the reason we can't actually expand more. Next year I expect Murray, McWillians and Downey to regularly start and they have more a cutting edge. Lad's are always injured alot though compared to the other players. Am just looking at not losing a game as bad as Mayo/ Tyrone, what's the point of it been a great game for the viewers if u beat out of the field.

Derry don't have the best forwards individually but as a collective Derry create and take some brilliant scores. That is down to fantastic team play and great movement. Galway nullified that with a number of sweepers last year and Tally will probably do something similar with the Kerry defence.

I think Derry are better this year than last, but then Kerry are an even greater hurdle than Galway.
It would have taken very little last year for it to be a much closer result and i do think we can certainly hope for more this year.
Without question Derry have been only cruising since they lost Gallagher. I think they were certainly suffering from disorientation in the Ulster final. But their big players carried them through. They had another poor game against Monaghan but still stood up when it mattered.  Is  that a lasting effect or have the management and team been focusing more on the latter stages of the competition in these last games. Certainly against Donegal Clare and Cork it looked like they only switched it on when needed.  I am hoping Derry turn up fully motivated and prepared .

Derry need to vary their play and use the counterattack.  If they stick to plan A they will be hammered.  It would also mean that they learnt nothing from last year.  That would be suboptimal.

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2023, 09:22:40 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/12/darragh-o-se-anything-can-happen-in-an-all-ireland-semi-final-but-i-dont-see-derry-or-monaghan-winning/
Kerry will just want to stick with their kicking game, same as they did against Tyrone. They will get chances, through David Clifford and Seánie O'Shea obviously, but they also got some good return from the bench the last day as well, through the likes of Tony Brosnan and Stephen O'Brien.

Do Derry have a kicking game?

Yes - Odhrán Lynch always kicks the ball out - never fails.

Quote from: lenny on July 12, 2023, 09:24:24 AM

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2023, 08:56:05 AM
For Derry what counts is the narrative. They need to do better than the Galway match last year. They won't be able to run the paranoid defence for 75 minutes. They need a plan B. They need to be accurate.They do not want to get hammered again. That would make the drive back to Derry very difficult.

Hopefully Kerry won't be as ultra defensive as galway were last year. I have a feeling Kerry will be very well set up though because of paddy tally. That is what I'd worry most about this game, that the creativity and flair of the Derry attack will be blunted by the Kerry set up.

Fair point.

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 12:46:32 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2023, 09:22:40 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/12/darragh-o-se-anything-can-happen-in-an-all-ireland-semi-final-but-i-dont-see-derry-or-monaghan-winning/
Kerry will just want to stick with their kicking game, same as they did against Tyrone. They will get chances, through David Clifford and Seánie O'Shea obviously, but they also got some good return from the bench the last day as well, through the likes of Tony Brosnan and Stephen O'Brien.

Do Derry have a kicking game?

Yes - Odhrán Lynch always kicks the ball out - never fails.

This could be a game where Lynch is exposed think hes a poor keeper, his contribution out the field has improved but think Derry to win AI with him in goals.  Is there any potential competition coming forward for Derry seem be badly short in this area. 

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 01:07:06 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 12:46:32 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2023, 09:22:40 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/12/darragh-o-se-anything-can-happen-in-an-all-ireland-semi-final-but-i-dont-see-derry-or-monaghan-winning/
Kerry will just want to stick with their kicking game, same as they did against Tyrone. They will get chances, through David Clifford and Seánie O'Shea obviously, but they also got some good return from the bench the last day as well, through the likes of Tony Brosnan and Stephen O'Brien.

Do Derry have a kicking game?

Yes - Odhrán Lynch always kicks the ball out - never fails.

This could be a game where Lynch is exposed think hes a poor keeper, his contribution out the field has improved but think Derry to win AI with him in goals.  Is there any potential competition coming forward for Derry seem be badly short in this area.

What do you think he is bad at? He's been one of Derry's best players this year

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 01:07:06 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 12:46:32 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2023, 09:22:40 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/12/darragh-o-se-anything-can-happen-in-an-all-ireland-semi-final-but-i-dont-see-derry-or-monaghan-winning/
Kerry will just want to stick with their kicking game, same as they did against Tyrone. They will get chances, through David Clifford and Seánie O'Shea obviously, but they also got some good return from the bench the last day as well, through the likes of Tony Brosnan and Stephen O'Brien.

Do Derry have a kicking game?

Yes - Odhrán Lynch always kicks the ball out - never fails.

This could be a game where Lynch is exposed think hes a poor keeper, his contribution out the field has improved but think Derry to win AI with him in goals.  Is there any potential competition coming forward for Derry seem be badly short in this area.

Gallivanting is not recommended against Kerry

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 01:07:06 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 12:46:32 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2023, 09:22:40 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/12/darragh-o-se-anything-can-happen-in-an-all-ireland-semi-final-but-i-dont-see-derry-or-monaghan-winning/
Kerry will just want to stick with their kicking game, same as they did against Tyrone. They will get chances, through David Clifford and Seánie O'Shea obviously, but they also got some good return from the bench the last day as well, through the likes of Tony Brosnan and Stephen O'Brien.

Do Derry have a kicking game?

Yes - Odhrán Lynch always kicks the ball out - never fails.

This could be a game where Lynch is exposed think hes a poor keeper, his contribution out the field has improved but think Derry to win AI with him in goals.  Is there any potential competition coming forward for Derry seem be badly short in this area.

A strong whiff of 'saved too many penalties' in that post.  Lynch has been superb this year, especially in the Ulster Final victory.

Could chrissy mckaigue be targeted?  Don't know as haven't seen alot of derry but he's getting on

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 01:28:32 PM

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 01:07:06 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 12:46:32 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2023, 09:22:40 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/12/darragh-o-se-anything-can-happen-in-an-all-ireland-semi-final-but-i-dont-see-derry-or-monaghan-winning/
Kerry will just want to stick with their kicking game, same as they did against Tyrone. They will get chances, through David Clifford and Seánie O'Shea obviously, but they also got some good return from the bench the last day as well, through the likes of Tony Brosnan and Stephen O'Brien.

Do Derry have a kicking game?

Yes - Odhrán Lynch always kicks the ball out - never fails.

This could be a game where Lynch is exposed think hes a poor keeper, his contribution out the field has improved but think Derry to win AI with him in goals.  Is there any potential competition coming forward for Derry seem be badly short in this area.

A strong whiff of 'saved too many penalties' in that post.  Lynch has been superb this year, especially in the Ulster Final victory.

There is mistakes in him for sure and if Kerry go after him can be got on at the kickouts.  My opinion on him is nothing to do with Derry beating Armagh on penalties.  Penalties are a lottery and while he did well to save a few this on its own doesn't elevate him to a top class keeper. 

Clare game last year turns his back on first goal, 2nd goal goes walkabout really poor keeping his attempt to narrow the angle was woeful.  Galway game beat at near post first goal and walkabout for the second.  In big games in croker to date hasn't covered himself in glory. 

I wish Derry all the success for Sunday and will be hoping they get over the line. 

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 02:11:23 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 01:28:32 PM

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 01:07:06 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 12:46:32 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2023, 09:22:40 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/12/darragh-o-se-anything-can-happen-in-an-all-ireland-semi-final-but-i-dont-see-derry-or-monaghan-winning/
Kerry will just want to stick with their kicking game, same as they did against Tyrone. They will get chances, through David Clifford and Seánie O'Shea obviously, but they also got some good return from the bench the last day as well, through the likes of Tony Brosnan and Stephen O'Brien.

Do Derry have a kicking game?

Yes - Odhrán Lynch always kicks the ball out - never fails.

This could be a game where Lynch is exposed think hes a poor keeper, his contribution out the field has improved but think Derry to win AI with him in goals.  Is there any potential competition coming forward for Derry seem be badly short in this area.

A strong whiff of 'saved too many penalties' in that post.  Lynch has been superb this year, especially in the Ulster Final victory.

There is mistakes in him for sure and if Kerry go after him can be got on at the kickouts.  My opinion on him is nothing to do with Derry beating Armagh on penalties.  Penalties are a lottery and while he did well to save a few this on its own doesn't elevate him to a top class keeper. 

Clare game last year turns his back on first goal, 2nd goal goes walkabout really poor keeping his attempt to narrow the angle was woeful.  Galway game beat at near post first goal and walkabout for the second.  In big games in croker to date hasn't covered himself in glory. 

I wish Derry all the success for Sunday and will be hoping they get over the line.

on the nail there

Good job u didn't see the Clare goal in Longford, then u be really giving out, it was brutal.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 12, 2023, 02:30:46 PM
Good job u didn't see the Clare goal in Longford, then u be really giving out, it was brutal.

Saw it.  What do you think he was trying to do?

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 02:11:23 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 01:28:32 PM

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 01:07:06 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 12:46:32 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2023, 09:22:40 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/12/darragh-o-se-anything-can-happen-in-an-all-ireland-semi-final-but-i-dont-see-derry-or-monaghan-winning/
Kerry will just want to stick with their kicking game, same as they did against Tyrone. They will get chances, through David Clifford and Seánie O'Shea obviously, but they also got some good return from the bench the last day as well, through the likes of Tony Brosnan and Stephen O'Brien.

Do Derry have a kicking game?

Yes - Odhrán Lynch always kicks the ball out - never fails.

This could be a game where Lynch is exposed think hes a poor keeper, his contribution out the field has improved but think Derry to win AI with him in goals.  Is there any potential competition coming forward for Derry seem be badly short in this area.

A strong whiff of 'saved too many penalties' in that post.  Lynch has been superb this year, especially in the Ulster Final victory.

There is mistakes in him for sure and if Kerry go after him can be got on at the kickouts.  My opinion on him is nothing to do with Derry beating Armagh on penalties.  Penalties are a lottery and while he did well to save a few this on its own doesn't elevate him to a top class keeper. 

Clare game last year turns his back on first goal, 2nd goal goes walkabout really poor keeping his attempt to narrow the angle was woeful.  Galway game beat at near post first goal and walkabout for the second.  In big games in croker to date hasn't covered himself in glory. 

I wish Derry all the success for Sunday and will be hoping they get over the line.

His penalty saves in the Ulster final were absolutely top class.  Get over it.  He has made mistakes, as all players do but overall he is the best we have and has worked really hard on improving his game in the last year.  Has scored more from play this year than some of our forwards. 

He has went from being a potential weak link to being a vital part of Derry's game. Very noticeable improvement in his ability under the high ball this year too and has definitely grown in confidence.

Has GONE!!!

Quote from: Rossfan on July 12, 2023, 06:51:06 PM
Has GONE!!!

No he is still there

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 01:07:06 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 12:46:32 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2023, 09:22:40 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/12/darragh-o-se-anything-can-happen-in-an-all-ireland-semi-final-but-i-dont-see-derry-or-monaghan-winning/
Kerry will just want to stick with their kicking game, same as they did against Tyrone. They will get chances, through David Clifford and Seánie O'Shea obviously, but they also got some good return from the bench the last day as well, through the likes of Tony Brosnan and Stephen O'Brien.

Do Derry have a kicking game?

Yes - Odhrán Lynch always kicks the ball out - never fails.

This could be a game where Lynch is exposed think hes a poor keeper, his contribution out the field has improved but think Derry to win AI with him in goals.  Is there any potential competition coming forward for Derry seem be badly short in this area.

I know what's poor and it's not Lynch's ability as a keeper.

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 12, 2023, 07:11:14 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on July 12, 2023, 06:51:06 PM
Has GONE!!!

No he is still there

Connaught men are sticklers for the aul grammar

Quote from: JoG2 on July 12, 2023, 07:16:25 PM

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 12, 2023, 07:11:14 PM

Quote from: Rossfan on July 12, 2023, 06:51:06 PM
Has GONE!!!

No he is still there

Connaught men are sticklers for the aul grammar

Every province has its strengths

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 04:39:12 PM

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 02:11:23 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 01:28:32 PM

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 01:07:06 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 12:46:32 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2023, 09:22:40 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/12/darragh-o-se-anything-can-happen-in-an-all-ireland-semi-final-but-i-dont-see-derry-or-monaghan-winning/
Kerry will just want to stick with their kicking game, same as they did against Tyrone. They will get chances, through David Clifford and Seánie O'Shea obviously, but they also got some good return from the bench the last day as well, through the likes of Tony Brosnan and Stephen O'Brien.

Do Derry have a kicking game?

Yes - Odhrán Lynch always kicks the ball out - never fails.

This could be a game where Lynch is exposed think hes a poor keeper, his contribution out the field has improved but think Derry to win AI with him in goals.  Is there any potential competition coming forward for Derry seem be badly short in this area.

A strong whiff of 'saved too many penalties' in that post.  Lynch has been superb this year, especially in the Ulster Final victory.

There is mistakes in him for sure and if Kerry go after him can be got on at the kickouts.  My opinion on him is nothing to do with Derry beating Armagh on penalties.  Penalties are a lottery and while he did well to save a few this on its own doesn't elevate him to a top class keeper. 

Clare game last year turns his back on first goal, 2nd goal goes walkabout really poor keeping his attempt to narrow the angle was woeful.  Galway game beat at near post first goal and walkabout for the second.  In big games in croker to date hasn't covered himself in glory. 

I wish Derry all the success for Sunday and will be hoping they get over the line.

His penalty saves in the Ulster final were absolutely top class.  Get over it.  He has made mistakes, as all players do but overall he is the best we have and has worked really hard on improving his game in the last year.  Has scored more from play this year than some of our forwards.

I acknowledge he did well to save the penalties but it's not a fundamental part of goalkeeping he may not be involved in another penalty shoot out for five years.  I also acknowledged that he has improved out the field also.  I would like to think all inter county players "work hard". Apologies for highlighting a potential weak link in the Derry side or having an opinion.

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 12, 2023, 05:12:24 PM
He has went from being a potential weak link to being a vital part of Derry's game. Very noticeable improvement in his ability under the high ball this year too and has definitely grown in confidence.

The Dublin first goal in the league final would suggest the high ball is a work in progress. (Would also question the positioning for the 4th goal.) In the modern game the keeper is arguably the most vital position on the pitch, so he is always going to be a vital cog in the wheel if continues to be selected. Anyway, hope he has a stormer Sunday and Derry make it back to AI final has been too long a proud county who are always very competitive at macrory and underage level.

From my reading of this thread some Derry posters seem to think they've been poor to middling for most of the year, yet in the same breath think there's exponential room for improvement & it will all come good v Kerry, seems foolproof. I think their performances this year are indicative of where they're really at, a good systematic team with 2 great players but not in Kerry's league. Their system will eventually fail as Kerry have too many good footballers and will punch holes in it increasingly more as the game goes on. As I said previously fair chance McGuigan and / or Glass accidentally get buried early doors. I expect Kerry to win by 5-7 pts.

Quote from: bennydorano on July 12, 2023, 08:23:24 PM
From my reading of this thread some Derry posters seem to think they've been poor to middling for most of the year, yet in the same breath think there's exponential room for improvement & it will all come good v Kerry, seems foolproof. I think their performances this year are indicative of where they're really at, a good systematic team with 2 great players but not in Kerry's league. Their system will eventually fail as Kerry have too many good footballers and will punch holes in it increasingly more as the game goes on. As I said previously fair chance McGuigan and / or Glass accidentally get buried early doors. I expect Kerry to win by 5-7 pts.

If a team is t putting on early 'reducers' to main players then they ain't helping themselves.

Quote from: bennydorano on July 12, 2023, 08:23:24 PM
From my reading of this thread some Derry posters seem to think they've been poor to middling for most of the year, yet in the same breath think there's exponential room for improvement & it will all come good v Kerry, seems foolproof. I think their performances this year are indicative of where they're really at, a good systematic team with 2 great players but not in Kerry's league. Their system will eventually fail as Kerry have too many good footballers and will punch holes in it increasingly more as the game goes on. As I said previously fair chance McGuigan and / or Glass accidentally get buried early doors. I expect Kerry to win by 5-7 pts.

What sort of a supporter would you be without hope and belief

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 07:48:57 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 04:39:12 PM

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 02:11:23 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 01:28:32 PM

Quote from: statto on July 12, 2023, 01:07:06 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 12:46:32 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 12, 2023, 09:22:40 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/12/darragh-o-se-anything-can-happen-in-an-all-ireland-semi-final-but-i-dont-see-derry-or-monaghan-winning/
Kerry will just want to stick with their kicking game, same as they did against Tyrone. They will get chances, through David Clifford and Seánie O'Shea obviously, but they also got some good return from the bench the last day as well, through the likes of Tony Brosnan and Stephen O'Brien.

Do Derry have a kicking game?

Yes - Odhrán Lynch always kicks the ball out - never fails.

This could be a game where Lynch is exposed think hes a poor keeper, his contribution out the field has improved but think Derry to win AI with him in goals.  Is there any potential competition coming forward for Derry seem be badly short in this area.

A strong whiff of 'saved too many penalties' in that post.  Lynch has been superb this year, especially in the Ulster Final victory.

There is mistakes in him for sure and if Kerry go after him can be got on at the kickouts.  My opinion on him is nothing to do with Derry beating Armagh on penalties.  Penalties are a lottery and while he did well to save a few this on its own doesn't elevate him to a top class keeper. 

Clare game last year turns his back on first goal, 2nd goal goes walkabout really poor keeping his attempt to narrow the angle was woeful.  Galway game beat at near post first goal and walkabout for the second.  In big games in croker to date hasn't covered himself in glory. 

I wish Derry all the success for Sunday and will be hoping they get over the line.

His penalty saves in the Ulster final were absolutely top class.  Get over it.  He has made mistakes, as all players do but overall he is the best we have and has worked really hard on improving his game in the last year.  Has scored more from play this year than some of our forwards.

I acknowledge he did well to save the penalties but it's not a fundamental part of goalkeeping he may not be involved in another penalty shoot out for five years. I also acknowledged that he has improved out the field also.  I would like to think all inter county players "work hard". Apologies for highlighting a potential weak link in the Derry side or having an opinion.

Ethan Rafferty may have a thought on that stat!!  No apology required - apparently we are all allowed an opinion on here! 

Quote from: bennydorano on July 12, 2023, 08:23:24 PM
From my reading of this thread some Derry posters seem to think they've been poor to middling for most of the year, yet in the same breath think there's exponential room for improvement & it will all come good v Kerry, seems foolproof. I think their performances this year are indicative of where they're really at, a good systematic team with 2 great players but not in Kerry's league. Their system will eventually fail as Kerry have too many good footballers and will punch holes in it increasingly more as the game goes on. As I said previously fair chance McGuigan and / or Glass accidentally get buried early doors. I expect Kerry to win by 5-7 pts.

Agree with some of that but remember that we are Ulster Champions for the last two years.  Some credit and respect please.  We have reached Division 1 from Division 4.  Some credit and respect please.  We are in the last 4 of the All Ireland Championship for the second year in a row.   Some credit and respect please.  Not bad for a team with 2 great players.  Pure jealousy leaked out there.  If Kerry want to bury a few, which is unlikely, let them try.  Neither Glass nor McGuigan will be easy buried. 

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 10:19:58 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on July 12, 2023, 08:23:24 PM
From my reading of this thread some Derry posters seem to think they've been poor to middling for most of the year, yet in the same breath think there's exponential room for improvement & it will all come good v Kerry, seems foolproof. I think their performances this year are indicative of where they're really at, a good systematic team with 2 great players but not in Kerry's league. Their system will eventually fail as Kerry have too many good footballers and will punch holes in it increasingly more as the game goes on. As I said previously fair chance McGuigan and / or Glass accidentally get buried early doors. I expect Kerry to win by 5-7 pts.

Agree with some of that but remember that we are Ulster Champions for the last two years.  Some credit and respect please.  We have reached Division 1 from Division 4.  Some credit and respect please.  We are in the last 4 of the All Ireland Championship for the second year in a row.   Some credit and respect please.  Not bad for a team with 2 great players.  Pure jealousy leaked out there.  If Kerry want to bury a few, which is unlikely, let them try.  Neither Glass nor McGuigan will be easy buried.

That's all fair enough, though would you have achieved all that without out-of-county managers, who seem to be able to harmonise the warring Derry club/locality factions?  ;)

Quote from: bennydorano on July 12, 2023, 08:23:24 PM
From my reading of this thread some Derry posters seem to think they've been poor to middling for most of the year, yet in the same breath think there's exponential room for improvement & it will all come good v Kerry, seems foolproof. I think their performances this year are indicative of where they're really at, a good systematic team with 2 great players but not in Kerry's league. Their system will eventually fail as Kerry have too many good footballers and will punch holes in it increasingly more as the game goes on. As I said previously fair chance McGuigan and / or Glass accidentally get buried early doors. I expect Kerry to win by 5-7 pts.

Kerry and Dublin have been poor to middling all year bar their last game... it's possible to raise your game and I'm hoping we do that.

There's also a case that Tyrone are muck and Mayo didn't  perform in that second half!

Quote from: bennydorano on July 12, 2023, 08:23:24 PM
From my reading of this thread some Derry posters seem to think they've been poor to middling for most of the year, yet in the same breath think there's exponential room for improvement & it will all come good v Kerry, seems foolproof. I think their performances this year are indicative of where they're really at, a good systematic team with 2 great players but not in Kerry's league. Their system will eventually fail as Kerry have too many good footballers and will punch holes in it increasingly more as the game goes on. As I said previously fair chance McGuigan and / or Glass accidentally get buried early doors. I expect Kerry to win by 5-7 pts.

Would you prefer we just didn't bother then? Up against it yes, anything can happened and half the county will be down there on Sunday, some belief helps.

Quote from: screenexile on July 12, 2023, 11:22:31 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on July 12, 2023, 08:23:24 PM
From my reading of this thread some Derry posters seem to think they've been poor to middling for most of the year, yet in the same breath think there's exponential room for improvement & it will all come good v Kerry, seems foolproof. I think their performances this year are indicative of where they're really at, a good systematic team with 2 great players but not in Kerry's league. Their system will eventually fail as Kerry have too many good footballers and will punch holes in it increasingly more as the game goes on. As I said previously fair chance McGuigan and / or Glass accidentally get buried early doors. I expect Kerry to win by 5-7 pts.

Kerry and Dublin have been poor to middling all year bar their last game... it's possible to raise your game and I'm hoping we do that.

There's also a case that Tyrone are muck and Mayo didn't  perform in that second half!

I think Mayo uncharacteristically folded against Dublin, I didn't think they were genuine AI contenders to begin with as they were/are a team in transition. Monaghan have more reason for optimism than Derry imo as I think Kerry are much better. However I don't think Monaghan have another gear to go into from the Armagh game, Derry do but they'll need to go up a gear or two to even get within 5 pts imo. I've been wrong a lot, just my opinion.

On the 45th minute of the quarter final, Tyrone had coughed up possession 15 times.  Not sure what score was conceded as a result but even at 30% that is 5 scores less for Tyrone Also.  So its not unrealistic to hope that Derry are less profligate than that ,and do as expected and control the game a little better.
I do think Derry at this moment in time are a better team than Tyrone, even should an argument be made that tyrone have better players
We have every reason to be hopeful if not optimistic.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 12, 2023, 11:15:40 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 10:19:58 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on July 12, 2023, 08:23:24 PM
From my reading of this thread some Derry posters seem to think they've been poor to middling for most of the year, yet in the same breath think there's exponential room for improvement & it will all come good v Kerry, seems foolproof. I think their performances this year are indicative of where they're really at, a good systematic team with 2 great players but not in Kerry's league. Their system will eventually fail as Kerry have too many good footballers and will punch holes in it increasingly more as the game goes on. As I said previously fair chance McGuigan and / or Glass accidentally get buried early doors. I expect Kerry to win by 5-7 pts.

Agree with some of that but remember that we are Ulster Champions for the last two years.  Some credit and respect please.  We have reached Division 1 from Division 4.  Some credit and respect please.  We are in the last 4 of the All Ireland Championship for the second year in a row.   Some credit and respect please.  Not bad for a team with 2 great players.  Pure jealousy leaked out there.  If Kerry want to bury a few, which is unlikely, let them try.  Neither Glass nor McGuigan will be easy buried.

That's all fair enough, though would you have achieved all that without out-of-county managers, who seem to be able to harmonise the warring Derry club/locality factions?  ;)

What has this got to do with anything?

Just an observation, is that allowed, like?

Some Upper Cusack tickets on sale now for the game.
Didn't expect it to be open at all.

Quote from: Estimator on July 13, 2023, 11:53:43 AM
Some Upper Cusack tickets on sale now for the game.
Didn't expect it to be open at all.

Online last night, central too

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 12, 2023, 11:15:40 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 12, 2023, 10:19:58 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on July 12, 2023, 08:23:24 PM
From my reading of this thread some Derry posters seem to think they've been poor to middling for most of the year, yet in the same breath think there's exponential room for improvement & it will all come good v Kerry, seems foolproof. I think their performances this year are indicative of where they're really at, a good systematic team with 2 great players but not in Kerry's league. Their system will eventually fail as Kerry have too many good footballers and will punch holes in it increasingly more as the game goes on. As I said previously fair chance McGuigan and / or Glass accidentally get buried early doors. I expect Kerry to win by 5-7 pts.

Agree with some of that but remember that we are Ulster Champions for the last two years.  Some credit and respect please.  We have reached Division 1 from Division 4.  Some credit and respect please.  We are in the last 4 of the All Ireland Championship for the second year in a row.   Some credit and respect please.  Not bad for a team with 2 great players.  Pure jealousy leaked out there.  If Kerry want to bury a few, which is unlikely, let them try.  Neither Glass nor McGuigan will be easy buried.

That's all fair enough, though would you have achieved all that without out-of-county managers, who seem to be able to harmonise the warring Derry club/locality factions?  ;)

Perhaps with outside management Tyrone wouldn't have had so many players leave the panel over the last couple of years  ;)

On what logic?

2 great players? McKinless a better half back than anything Kerry have, Rodgers to.

I think Kerry have one great player, so by my standards 2 is very good.

You're a tough crowd Benny  ;D

Tbh parts of what you say I would agree with. Derry play very much to systems etc and they haven't really played a team yet who's good enough to break that system down. This weekend they probably will play a team who's good enough to break that system down.

It's really hard to know how this will go and how Kerry will react to Derry's system. If they find a way then I think it's them by about what Galway did last year but if they don't this could be a dogged affair like Kerry Tyrone 2 years ago.

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 13, 2023, 04:37:29 PM
You're a tough crowd Benny  ;D

Tbh parts of what you say I would agree with. Derry play very much to systems etc and they haven't really played a team yet who's good enough to break that system down. This weekend they probably will play a team who's good enough to break that system down.

It's really hard to know how this will go and how Kerry will react to Derry's system. If they find a way then I think it's them by about what Galway did last year but if they don't this could be a dogged affair like Kerry Tyrone 2 years ago.

+1

I personally think Derry have 6-7 players that would get in any side. McKaigue, McKinless, Glass, Rogers, McCloskey, Ethan Doherty, Shane McGuigan.
There's a strong supporting cast there too with Conor Doherty, McEvoy, Paul Cassidy.
We are light in the forward division right now, but I do think when Murray and McWilliams force their way through or recover from injury that will improve us massively. Perhaps get Emmet Bradley back in the fold too.

That's not saying I think we are better than Kerry.
But I do think if we put in a performance where we dont lose focus, maintain the high energy game we have and stick to the system, that we have the players that can really hurt Kerry whilst also having the players to make sure the Kerry attack don't run riot. We'll never restrict them to small scores such is the talent they have, so we have to do what we can defensively and hope the attacking game clicks on the day.

There's a lot of ifs and but there, so conversely, if it doesn't click and we don't restrict the Kerry forward unit, we could get a hiding.

My hope is that Kerry will focus heavily on restricting McGuigan, which will allow us to get our half backs and half forwards more into the attacking positions. I'm sure Kerry will have a plan to stop Mcloskey running from deep too, so it just remains to be seen how effective he can be.

I'm really looking forward to it. It is a free swing for Derry imo. Written off playing current AI champions, no massive expectations from within the county other than a hope to pull off an upset, and a stepping stone towards progression with Div1 football on the horizon next year.
And we all love a shock in football - maybe this will be it :)

Quote from: tbrick18 on July 13, 2023, 05:05:54 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 13, 2023, 04:37:29 PM
You're a tough crowd Benny  ;D

Tbh parts of what you say I would agree with. Derry play very much to systems etc and they haven't really played a team yet who's good enough to break that system down. This weekend they probably will play a team who's good enough to break that system down.

It's really hard to know how this will go and how Kerry will react to Derry's system. If they find a way then I think it's them by about what Galway did last year but if they don't this could be a dogged affair like Kerry Tyrone 2 years ago.

+1

I personally think Derry have 6-7 players that would get in any side. McKaigue, McKinless, Glass, Rogers, McCloskey, Ethan Doherty, Shane McGuigan.
There's a strong supporting cast there too with Conor Doherty, McEvoy, Paul Cassidy.
We are light in the forward division right now, but I do think when Murray and McWilliams force their way through or recover from injury that will improve us massively. Perhaps get Emmet Bradley back in the fold too.

That's not saying I think we are better than Kerry.
But I do think if we put in a performance where we dont lose focus, maintain the high energy game we have and stick to the system, that we have the players that can really hurt Kerry whilst also having the players to make sure the Kerry attack don't run riot. We'll never restrict them to small scores such is the talent they have, so we have to do what we can defensively and hope the attacking game clicks on the day.

There's a lot of ifs and but there, so conversely, if it doesn't click and we don't restrict the Kerry forward unit, we could get a hiding.

My hope is that Kerry will focus heavily on restricting McGuigan, which will allow us to get our half backs and half forwards more into the attacking positions. I'm sure Kerry will have a plan to stop Mcloskey running from deep too, so it just remains to be seen how effective he can be.

I'm really looking forward to it. It is a free swing for Derry imo. Written off playing current AI champions, no massive expectations from within the county other than a hope to pull off an upset, and a stepping stone towards progression with Div1 football on the horizon next year.
And we all love a shock in football - maybe this will be it :)

An early lead would help as well!  Reading McQuillan's mood early on too could be crucial.  ;D

From gaelicstatsman


Kerry's route to the Semi final.

(https://i.ibb.co/NWnGQ0t/kerry-route-to-the-semi-final.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6DJqVKr)

Derry's route to the semi final

(https://i.ibb.co/QpWN0tV/derry-route-to-te-semi-final.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bQ4BtDV)


Who's done the scoring for Kerry

(https://i.ibb.co/W32dCCm/F059b-C6-Xs-AAk-Y-R.jpg) (https://ibb.co/sPVD778)


Who's done the scoring for Derry

(https://i.ibb.co/7XCnBWq/derry-scorers.jpg) (https://ibb.co/s2RKcwZ)

Here, we scored a pile of goals from penalties as well, you know!!!

Teams and subs named.


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F08ExqFX0AAm_eJ?format=jpg&name=small)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F08d-WvWcAQdyAh?format=jpg&name=small)

Quote from: Blowitupref on July 13, 2023, 10:21:04 PM
Teams and subs named.


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F08ExqFX0AAm_eJ?format=jpg&name=small)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F08d-WvWcAQdyAh?format=jpg&name=small)

Are all them Kerry boys the same height?  Bit of AI going on?!!

Just after watching the 1st half of the Cork game, christ we were bad, should been 6 up at half time playing crap.

A good sign

Judging by the current media round there's no point in turning up everyone wants a Kerry Dublin final to "save football"

We might as well just stop playing the game altogether and let Kerry and Dublin play every game between themselves!

Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2023, 11:34:25 AM
Judging by the current media round there's no point in turning up everyone wants a Kerry Dublin final to "save football"

We might as well just stop playing the game altogether and let Kerry and Dublin play every game between themselves!

Yeah the sanctimonious sh*te would sicken ye.
Derry v Monaghan final.  ;D

Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2023, 11:34:25 AM
Judging by the current media round there's no point in turning up everyone wants a Kerry Dublin final to "save football"

We might as well just stop playing the game altogether and let Kerry and Dublin play every game between themselves!

Part of me would love it if we beat them 9-8 in a slugfest to see the media meltdown. It would be Derry's fault no doubt despite taking two teams to set up that way to get such a result.

Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2023, 11:34:25 AM
Judging by the current media round there's no point in turning up everyone wants a Kerry Dublin final to "save football"

We might as well just stop playing the game altogether and let Kerry and Dublin play every game between themselves!

It's perfect for Derry I'd imagine, all this talk of Kerry v Dublin final suits them fine. I hope it doesn't seep into Kerry squad at all. Don't need that to take the edge off.

I think most clued in people realise that while Dublin really should be well over Monaghan on Saturday, it would be no surprise at all if the game Sunday is a tight one.

It is well set up for Derry to spring a surprise.
Derry's poor enough performance against Cork in the last match, drawing with Armagh and Monaghan earlier.
Then Kerry looking very good against Tyrone putting up a very disciplined defensive display.

Kerry know how to win semis and will hardly be underestimating Derry but who knows on the day.
Surely this is Derry's biggest game in the last thirty years (well since last years semi :-)
Donegal won their second title after twenty years so could Derry do it in thirty? ;-)

You would imagine they will have one big performance in them which is what teams have to do to get over the line.
They've already showed their not totally dependent on McGuigan for scores and will have learnt a lot from the last Kerry match where Kerry finally showed their hand.

I think this could be a lot closer than people think and it could come down to how well Clifford is kept quiet again.
When is the last time Derry met Kerry in the championship? Have they never beaten them?
Down, Cavan, Armagh and Monaghan have.

Think Kerry will be too good for Derry, same as Dublin were in the National League.  The top teams are out in front.

Quote from: Sportacus on July 14, 2023, 02:38:21 PM
Think Kerry will be too good for Derry, same as Dublin were in the National League.  The top teams are out in front.

Derry were putting it up to Dublin in the first half of the league final.....Dublin stepped it up a gear in the second half and it was soon game over.  They have the talent and squad depth that will allow them to do this similar to Kerry.  Derry still do not have the depth in the squad necessary for an AI and I believe this will be exposed again on Sunday.

It's not as if good players we let go, Jack Doherty was very badly handled, and I Think with the right chat with E, bradley, would brought him bck in late to. Dan Higgins, also should be in the panel, he probably left tail end of last tear.

In the hurling printers wod give advice about to Limerick, the hurling equivalent of  Kerry.
So Joe Canning would say the only way is to push up on them to close down their space and slow them down. What have people been saying about getting to Kerry ?

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 14, 2023, 10:10:38 AM
Just after watching the 1st half of the Cork game, christ we were bad, should been 6 up at half time playing crap.

Needed a goal to be 6 up at half time.  Derry scored 0-6 from 10 shots in that half. Cork scored 0-5 from 12 shots.

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 14, 2023, 11:57:02 AM

Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2023, 11:34:25 AM
Judging by the current media round there's no point in turning up everyone wants a Kerry Dublin final to "save football"

We might as well just stop playing the game altogether and let Kerry and Dublin play every game between themselves!

It's perfect for Derry I'd imagine, all this talk of Kerry v Dublin final suits them fine. I hope it doesn't seep into Kerry squad at all. Don't need that to take the edge off.

I think most clued in people realise that while Dublin really should be well over Monaghan on Saturday, it would be no surprise at all if the game Sunday is a tight one.

Good to see the old yerra tradition surviving in these days of Internet streaming.

Quote from: LC on July 14, 2023, 03:09:26 PM

Quote from: Sportacus on July 14, 2023, 02:38:21 PM
Think Kerry will be too good for Derry, same as Dublin were in the National League.  The top teams are out in front.

Derry were putting it up to Dublin in the first half of the league final.....Dublin stepped it up a gear in the second half and it was soon game over.  They have the talent and squad depth that will allow them to do this similar to Kerry.  Derry still do not have the depth in the squad necessary for an AI and I believe this will be exposed again on Sunday.

You mean they got a very obvious square ball goal to swing the momentum and then Glass got injured.

Quote from: Mario on July 14, 2023, 04:27:39 PM

Quote from: LC on July 14, 2023, 03:09:26 PM

Quote from: Sportacus on July 14, 2023, 02:38:21 PM
Think Kerry will be too good for Derry, same as Dublin were in the National League.  The top teams are out in front.

Derry were putting it up to Dublin in the first half of the league final.....Dublin stepped it up a gear in the second half and it was soon game over.  They have the talent and squad depth that will allow them to do this similar to Kerry.  Derry still do not have the depth in the squad necessary for an AI and I believe this will be exposed again on Sunday.

You mean they got a very obvious square ball goal to swing the momentum and then Glass got injured.

One thing, and I say this as someone who favours Derry, that sticks out to me on this forum is that there seems little acceptance that Dublin absolutely destroyed you in the second half of the league final. Con O'Callaghan tore you apart. There could have been eight goals but there seems to be an excuse for every goal.

I would love to see Derry win this one and it is very hard to gauge if that league game is a one off or if glass and mckaigue back their will be a big enough swing in your favour. Game could be very tight or a hammering. Would love to see Derry win a tight game. If Kerry start what Dublin did though Derry are in big bother.

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 14, 2023, 05:53:28 PM
One thing, and I say this as someone who favours Derry, that sticks out to me on this forum is that there seems little acceptance that Dublin absolutely destroyed you in the second half of the league final. Con O'Callaghan tore you apart. There could have been eight goals but there seems to be an excuse for every goal.
...

Ah, but there's now a Tír Eoghain man in (sole) charge: he'll fix that!  ;)

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 14, 2023, 05:53:28 PM
One thing, and I say this as someone who favours Derry, that sticks out to me on this forum is that there seems little acceptance that Dublin absolutely destroyed you in the second half of the league final. Con O'Callaghan tore you apart. There could have been eight goals but there seems to be an excuse for every goal.

😂

At least Dublin were full strength

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 14, 2023, 05:53:28 PM
One thing, and I say this as someone who favours Derry, that sticks out to me on this forum is that there seems little acceptance that Dublin absolutely destroyed you in the second half of the league final. Con O'Callaghan tore you apart. There could have been eight goals but there seems to be an excuse for every goal.

I would love to see Derry win this one and it is very hard to gauge if that league game is a one off or if glass and mckaigue back their will be a big enough swing in your favour. Game could be very tight or a hammering. Would love to see Derry win a tight game. If Kerry start what Dublin did though Derry are in big bother.

Didn't realise this thread was about the League Final.  Is that what you want to discuss or the league match out of the nest, in Celtic Park?

"Hammer the hammer" as the Kerry folk say.
No way Glass, Rogers and McGuigan will all finish the game injury free.

Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on July 14, 2023, 08:45:16 PM
"Hammer the hammer" as the Kerry folk say.
No way Glass, Rogers and McGuigan will all finish the game injury free.

Paudie Clifford for another red card then and "why did I get sent off" speech?!!   

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 14, 2023, 03:14:24 PM
It's not as if good players we let go, Jack Doherty was very badly handled, and I Think with the right chat with E, bradley, would brought him bck in late to. Dan Higgins, also should be in the panel, he probably left tail end of last tear.

Who would Jack replace for Sunday?

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 08:06:30 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 14, 2023, 05:53:28 PM
One thing, and I say this as someone who favours Derry, that sticks out to me on this forum is that there seems little acceptance that Dublin absolutely destroyed you in the second half of the league final. Con O'Callaghan tore you apart. There could have been eight goals but there seems to be an excuse for every goal.

I would love to see Derry win this one and it is very hard to gauge if that league game is a one off or if glass and mckaigue back their will be a big enough swing in your favour. Game could be very tight or a hammering. Would love to see Derry win a tight game. If Kerry start what Dublin did though Derry are in big bother.

Didn't realise this thread was about the League Final.  Is that what you want to discuss or the league match out of the nest, in Celtic Park?

I wasn't the one started discussing it and you'll find out this weekend whether it's relevant or not.

Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on July 14, 2023, 08:45:16 PM
"Hammer the hammer" as the Kerry folk say.
No way Glass, Rogers and McGuigan will all finish the game injury free.

Conor Meyler targetted the last day and nothing done. Kerry mafia like  Spillange all about  Kerry attacking football.

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 08:47:51 PM

Quote from: Champion The Wonder Horse on July 14, 2023, 08:45:16 PM
"Hammer the hammer" as the Kerry folk say.
No way Glass, Rogers and McGuigan will all finish the game injury free.

Paudie Clifford for another red card then and "why did I get sent off" speech?!!

I think the ref sent him off for his own protection , ref should have told him that :-)

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 14, 2023, 09:05:20 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 08:06:30 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 14, 2023, 05:53:28 PM
One thing, and I say this as someone who favours Derry, that sticks out to me on this forum is that there seems little acceptance that Dublin absolutely destroyed you in the second half of the league final. Con O'Callaghan tore you apart. There could have been eight goals but there seems to be an excuse for every goal.

I would love to see Derry win this one and it is very hard to gauge if that league game is a one off or if glass and mckaigue back their will be a big enough swing in your favour. Game could be very tight or a hammering. Would love to see Derry win a tight game. If Kerry start what Dublin did though Derry are in big bother.

Didn't realise this thread was about the League Final.  Is that what you want to discuss or the league match out of the nest, in Celtic Park?

I wasn't the one started discussing it and you'll find out this weekend whether it's relevant or not.

But we're playing Kerry, not Dublin!! Did nobody tell you?!!

 ;D

 :'(

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 09:01:53 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 14, 2023, 03:14:24 PM
It's not as if good players we let go, Jack Doherty was very badly handled, and I Think with the right chat with E, bradley, would brought him bck in late to. Dan Higgins, also should be in the panel, he probably left tail end of last tear.

Who would Jack replace for Sunday?

Wildweasel74 must translate as 'broken record' in some language... ;D

Derry by 3

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 09:01:53 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 14, 2023, 03:14:24 PM
It's not as if good players we let go, Jack Doherty was very badly handled, and I Think with the right chat with E, bradley, would brought him bck in late to. Dan Higgins, also should be in the panel, he probably left tail end of last tear.

Who would Jack replace for Sunday?

Jack Doherty, on his form for Glen last year, is a better footballer than Niall loughlin, Niall toner or Benny Heron

Quote from: Silver hill on July 14, 2023, 10:43:50 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 09:01:53 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 14, 2023, 03:14:24 PM
It's not as if good players we let go, Jack Doherty was very badly handled, and I Think with the right chat with E, bradley, would brought him bck in late to. Dan Higgins, also should be in the panel, he probably left tail end of last tear.

Who would Jack replace for Sunday?

Jack Doherty, on his form for Glen last year, is a better footballer than Niall loughlin, Niall toner or Benny Heron

And on county form?

Quote from: Silver hill on July 14, 2023, 10:43:50 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 09:01:53 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 14, 2023, 03:14:24 PM
It's not as if good players we let go, Jack Doherty was very badly handled, and I Think with the right chat with E, bradley, would brought him bck in late to. Dan Higgins, also should be in the panel, he probably left tail end of last tear.

Who would Jack replace for Sunday?

Jack Doherty, on his form for Glen last year, is a better footballer than Niall loughlin, Niall toner or Benny Heron

But it takes more than being a better footballer than someone else these days, county is a different beast

Quote from: JoG2 on July 14, 2023, 10:49:24 PM

Quote from: Silver hill on July 14, 2023, 10:43:50 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 09:01:53 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 14, 2023, 03:14:24 PM
It's not as if good players we let go, Jack Doherty was very badly handled, and I Think with the right chat with E, bradley, would brought him bck in late to. Dan Higgins, also should be in the panel, he probably left tail end of last tear.

Who would Jack replace for Sunday?

Jack Doherty, on his form for Glen last year, is a better footballer than Niall loughlin, Niall toner or Benny Heron

But it takes more than being a better footballer than someone else these days, county is a different beast

Exactly - and generally you have to be in Ireland.

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 10:50:19 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on July 14, 2023, 10:49:24 PM

Quote from: Silver hill on July 14, 2023, 10:43:50 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 09:01:53 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 14, 2023, 03:14:24 PM
It's not as if good players we let go, Jack Doherty was very badly handled, and I Think with the right chat with E, bradley, would brought him bck in late to. Dan Higgins, also should be in the panel, he probably left tail end of last tear.

Who would Jack replace for Sunday?

Jack Doherty, on his form for Glen last year, is a better footballer than Niall loughlin, Niall toner or Benny Heron

But it takes more than being a better footballer than someone else these days, county is a different beast

Exactly - and generally you have to be in Ireland.

Tally gets flown down to Kerry a few times a week...... Just saying  :D

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 10:50:19 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on July 14, 2023, 10:49:24 PM

Quote from: Silver hill on July 14, 2023, 10:43:50 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 09:01:53 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 14, 2023, 03:14:24 PM
It's not as if good players we let go, Jack Doherty was very badly handled, and I Think with the right chat with E, bradley, would brought him bck in late to. Dan Higgins, also should be in the panel, he probably left tail end of last tear.

Who would Jack replace for Sunday?

Jack Doherty, on his form for Glen last year, is a better footballer than Niall loughlin, Niall toner or Benny Heron

But it takes more than being a better footballer than someone else these days, county is a different beast

Exactly - and generally you have to be in Ireland.

90% of footballers are the same - robots.

Up and down the field. Keep the ball.  Pass it sideways.

They have no meaningful impact on the game.  That goes for all counties.

Quote from: marty34 on July 14, 2023, 10:53:37 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 10:50:19 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on July 14, 2023, 10:49:24 PM

Quote from: Silver hill on July 14, 2023, 10:43:50 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 09:01:53 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 14, 2023, 03:14:24 PM
It's not as if good players we let go, Jack Doherty was very badly handled, and I Think with the right chat with E, bradley, would brought him bck in late to. Dan Higgins, also should be in the panel, he probably left tail end of last tear.

Who would Jack replace for Sunday?

Jack Doherty, on his form for Glen last year, is a better footballer than Niall loughlin, Niall toner or Benny Heron

But it takes more than being a better footballer than someone else these days, county is a different beast

Exactly - and generally you have to be in Ireland.

90% of footballers are the same - robots.

Up and down the field. Keep the ball.  Pass it sideways.

They have no meaningful impact on the game.  That goes for all counties.

How do you get a winner then?  AI?

Quote from: marty34 on July 14, 2023, 10:53:37 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 10:50:19 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on July 14, 2023, 10:49:24 PM

Quote from: Silver hill on July 14, 2023, 10:43:50 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 09:01:53 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 14, 2023, 03:14:24 PM
It's not as if good players we let go, Jack Doherty was very badly handled, and I Think with the right chat with E, bradley, would brought him bck in late to. Dan Higgins, also should be in the panel, he probably left tail end of last tear.

Who would Jack replace for Sunday?

Jack Doherty, on his form for Glen last year, is a better footballer than Niall loughlin, Niall toner or Benny Heron

But it takes more than being a better footballer than someone else these days, county is a different beast

Exactly - and generally you have to be in Ireland.

90% of footballers are the same - robots.

Up and down the field. Keep the ball.  Pass it sideways.

They have no meaningful impact on the game.  That goes for all counties.

There are definitely workmanlike / athletic players on a team who perform certain basics well, but your assertion above is beyond ridiculous

How could you have judged his county form, Gallagher played him like 3 mins in a league home game and a sub in another away game last year . Yes he's out of the country, and had made it clear he wouldn't play for Gallagher. Had he been in the country and a no.of games under his belt I be starting  him. I think our goalkeeper and full bck line scored more than a couple of our corner forwards.

Quote from: JoG2 on July 14, 2023, 11:07:51 PM

Quote from: marty34 on July 14, 2023, 10:53:37 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 10:50:19 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on July 14, 2023, 10:49:24 PM

Quote from: Silver hill on July 14, 2023, 10:43:50 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 09:01:53 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 14, 2023, 03:14:24 PM
It's not as if good players we let go, Jack Doherty was very badly handled, and I Think with the right chat with E, bradley, would brought him bck in late to. Dan Higgins, also should be in the panel, he probably left tail end of last tear.

Who would Jack replace for Sunday?

Jack Doherty, on his form for Glen last year, is a better footballer than Niall loughlin, Niall toner or Benny Heron

But it takes more than being a better footballer than someone else these days, county is a different beast

Exactly - and generally you have to be in Ireland.

90% of footballers are the same - robots.

Up and down the field. Keep the ball.  Pass it sideways.

They have no meaningful impact on the game.  That goes for all counties.

There are definitely workmanlike / athletic players on a team who perform certain basics well, but your assertion above is beyond ridiculous

It's true.  Yo've admitted to it. Players who are workmanlike, good basics and recycle the ball sideways and backways.

This is the majority of players on any team now - whether that be county or club.

Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2023, 11:34:25 AM
Judging by the current media round there's no point in turning up everyone wants a Kerry Dublin final to "save football"

We might as well just stop playing the game altogether and let Kerry and Dublin play every game between themselves!

Some of the utterly uninformed commentary is laughable. I listened to colm Boyle and Darren O'Sullivan on newstalk, Boyle was awful, throwing out line after line of nonsense showing that his only exposure to Derry was cos he got in early for the mayo v Dublin game and watched a few mins.
A lot of commentary has been the same, ultra defensive, play keep ball for minutes on end, slow methodical attacks which can't work (no recognition that those attacks were v cork, Galway and Donegal in games where all 30 players were in the opponent's half), not capable of attacking any other way, very limited panel, no supporting cast up front unlike Kerry (presume this is because seanie has played a little better the last 2 games).

I don't know, but I've seen the majority of Derry games the last few years and most of the shite being written isn't reflective of what we've been watching. Someone was questioning whether Derry can score goals for example - I suspect they're amongst the most clinical and goal minded teams around?

Really looking forward to this one and it will really tell us where we're at, Kerry can be vulnerable we've seen that all year, obviously a very good team, but Clifford aside is there much in it man for man?

They were really up for Tyrone, it might be difficult to get to that same level against a team they're expected to beat comfortably, better to save themselves for the dream final, it could be like that 2015 classic all over again!

I'm taking Glass to give us a masterclass tomorrow, defensively and attacking wise, redeem himself for last year's semi and nail on his footballer of the year credentials. Easy!!

Quote from: marty34 on July 15, 2023, 08:08:19 AM

Quote from: JoG2 on July 14, 2023, 11:07:51 PM

Quote from: marty34 on July 14, 2023, 10:53:37 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 10:50:19 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on July 14, 2023, 10:49:24 PM

Quote from: Silver hill on July 14, 2023, 10:43:50 PM

Quote from: restorepride on July 14, 2023, 09:01:53 PM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 14, 2023, 03:14:24 PM
It's not as if good players we let go, Jack Doherty was very badly handled, and I Think with the right chat with E, bradley, would brought him bck in late to. Dan Higgins, also should be in the panel, he probably left tail end of last tear.

Who would Jack replace for Sunday?

Jack Doherty, on his form for Glen last year, is a better footballer than Niall loughlin, Niall toner or Benny Heron

But it takes more than being a better footballer than someone else these days, county is a different beast

Exactly - and generally you have to be in Ireland.

90% of footballers are the same - robots.

Up and down the field. Keep the ball.  Pass it sideways.

They have no meaningful impact on the game.  That goes for all counties.

There are definitely workmanlike / athletic players on a team who perform certain basics well, but your assertion above is beyond ridiculous

It's true.  Yo've admitted to it. Players who are workmanlike, good basics and recycle the ball sideways and backways.

This is the majority of players on any team now - whether that be county or club.

Modern inter county football is a lifestyle, a total and utter commitment to the cause. This sometimes will leave more skillful players with their clubs due to the commitment involved. Derry has a couple of players, while maybe not the best in the county have the heart and work rate to work well within the current system.
You've said 90% are the same, robots..that (rounded down) is 13 players.
Name me the 13 robots in the Derry and Kerry lineups for Sunday...you won't as you can't. A lazy, tabloid, hurler in the ditch comment as you'll read online

Quote from: onefineday on July 15, 2023, 09:15:28 AM

Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2023, 11:34:25 AM
Judging by the current media round there's no point in turning up everyone wants a Kerry Dublin final to "save football"

We might as well just stop playing the game altogether and let Kerry and Dublin play every game between themselves!

Some of the utterly uninformed commentary is laughable. I listened to colm Boyle and Darren O'Sullivan on newstalk, Boyle was awful, throwing out line after line of nonsense showing that his only exposure to Derry was cos he got in early for the mayo v Dublin game and watched a few mins.
A lot of commentary has been the same, ultra defensive, play keep ball for minutes on end, slow methodical attacks which can't work (no recognition that those attacks were v cork, Galway and Donegal in games where all 30 players were in the opponent's half), not capable of attacking any other way, very limited panel, no supporting cast up front unlike Kerry (presume this is because seanie has played a little better the last 2 games).

I don't know, but I've seen the majority of Derry games the last few years and most of the shite being written isn't reflective of what we've been watching. Someone was questioning whether Derry can score goals for example - I suspect they're amongst the most clinical and goal minded teams around?

Really looking forward to this one and it will really tell us where we're at, Kerry can be vulnerable we've seen that all year, obviously a very good team, but Clifford aside is there much in it man for man?

They were really up for Tyrone, it might be difficult to get to that same level against a team they're expected to beat comfortably, better to save themselves for the dream final, it could be like that 2015 classic all over again!

I'm taking Glass to give us a masterclass tomorrow, defensively and attacking wise, redeem himself for last year's semi and nail on his footballer of the year credentials. Easy!!

You've a point there that I would agree with totally. And Darran O'Sullivan wouldn't have watched Derry v Cork I'd be fairly sure either. It's typical of the manure that largely passes for "journalism" on Football at the moment. Even the Football pod lads, who are good football men, spoof it a bit at times from abroad having clearly not really watched games.

I know it's behind a paywall but the Irish Examiner is really good on football, way ahead of most. Paul Rouse, Fitzmaurice (boring though he can be), James Horan, Malachy O'Rourke, Paddy Kelly and some other good, genuine football people. Who actually watch and are involved in football.

Cahair O'Kane in the irish news is one that has to be mentioned aswell in fairness. Regular quality output.

Most of the rest I wouldn't get worked up about.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/15/derry-scaled-heights-in-1993-when-savvy-boss-eamonn-coleman-made-the-difference/

Derry scaled heights in 1993 when savvy boss Eamonn Coleman made the difference
'We had been rudderless. He was instrumental in getting the team to a point where they had the confidence'
Expand

All-Ireland final 1993: Derry's Enda Gormley celebrates victory over Cork at Croke Park. File photograph: James Meehan/Inpho
Seán Moran
Sat Jul 15 2023 - 05:00
The last time Derry won an All-Ireland semi-final, it wasn't going to plan at half-time. Thirty years ago, having got out of Ulster at a time of plenty for the province, they were in many people's minds the likely latest champions from the North.
In these pages, football analyst John O'Keeffe was clear about the probable outcome. "Derry may take a few minutes to settle but I feel they have the necessary desire and determination at this stage of their development to reach the final."
In Croke Park, however, it was taking longer than a few minutes and they left the pitch at the break trailing by five, 0-4 to 0-9. Dublin had opened impressively and taken their scores. For a Derry pundit on the terrace, there was no doubt what was happening.
"The dressing rooms were in the corner between the Hogan and the Canal End at that time," remembers Enda Gormley, who would finish the day as his team's top scorer. "Our fans were at that end and I remember one so-called supporter shouting, 'typical Derry — shitting the nest again'."

Yet many of the players shared O'Keeffe's confidence in the team. All year, according to Damian Cassidy, wing forward and future county manager, he had believed strongly that Derry would win the All-Ireland.
In the aftermath, future Derry pundit Joe Brolly gave a command performance for the media in the dressing room.
Learn more


Vinny Murphy of Dublin tries to hold off the challenge from Henry Downey of Derry during the All-Ireland semi-final of 1993. File photograph: Inpho
"I had insane confidence out there," he assured them, "even when we were being stuffed I thought we'd win the match. Dublin just seemed to be vulnerable. They had that old thing that they had against Meath, just something vulnerable about them."
The reminiscence of what happened at half-time is brisk. Coach Mickey Moran made a brief speech, challenging the players were they going to be the latest Derry team to go home from Croke Park after one match. But they themselves knew what needed to be done.
"There was probably a two- or three-point breeze," says Gormley. "But we knew we hadn't been good. We hadn't started."
The second half played out with Derry catching Dublin and Johnny McGurk kicking the winning point, 0-15 to 0-14.
There's no consensus that beating Dublin was the major breakthrough that gave Derry the confidence to progress. That team had served a hard apprenticeship in the previous two years, losing in Ulster to Down after a replay and in 1992 to Donegal in the provincial final. Both counties won the All-Ireland.
Cassidy acknowledges that the semi-finals were the stage at which the music generally died for the county.
"A number of teams in the past had come down and got broken at that stage so that aspect had to be tackled — getting over that — but I also think that getting over Donegal was massively important for us. The difference was that in the previous two years we had beaten Down and Donegal. They were All-Ireland champions. Dublin were not.
"The importance of the match was that we were five down at half-time and came out and turned it around in a full Croke Park that Dublin would have been more used to than we were."

Ulster final: Derry vs Donegal in 1993 where Manus Boyle of Donegal is surrounded by opposition players. File photograph: Inpho
The missing ingredient for Derry was the arrival home from London in 1990 of the late Eamonn Coleman, for whom "feisty" was too anaemic a description. His scolding persona was leavened with a twinkle of mischief. After the first 1993 championship match against favourites Down in Newry had ended in a big win for Derry, he deadpanned the reporters.
"Youse boys are no tipsters."
Coleman wasn't just a vaudevillian turn outside dressing rooms. He had walked the walk, bringing a minor All-Ireland back to the county in 1983. In 1992, Derry won the NFL and previously he had piloted University of Ulster at Jordanstown (UUJ) to their first Sigerson Cups in 1986 and 1987.
Gormley was on both of those UUJ teams. He remembers being struck by Coleman's implacable views on what would be good enough for Derry. How had the manager affected the county team?
"Unbelievably. It wouldn't have happened without him. I remember the night before a Sigerson final, we were discussing the Derry team and naming players. I came up with someone and Eamonn said, 'no, he'd never cut the mustard in Croke Park — too slow'. I said sure we have to win Ulster first but his attitude was if a player wasn't good enough to win an All-Ireland, he wasn't good enough. I was struck by that because for me Ulster teams never came into the reckoning for All-Irelands. Eamonn's ambitions were different."
After two years of coming close, Derry needed something different, according to Cassidy, a member of Coleman's All-Ireland winning minors.
"We were still not playing the football that was good enough to win an All-Ireland. After we lost a league quarter-final in '93 to Donegal, there was a team meeting in Ballymaguigan.

Derry manager Eamonn Coleman looks on as his side play Tyrone in the league final of 1992. File photograph: Inpho
"The outcome of that was we decided we needed to develop our game. We had to add a possession-based, running game.
"Before we had used very much a kicking game. That meeting and the subsequent coaching changed the options. I'm not entirely happy with calling it a 'possession game' because of the modern implications. It was more a support game, running off the shoulder."
He concurs with Gormley on the impact of the manager.
"There was no getting away from how important he was. We had been rudderless. Eamonn had a strong relationship with quite a few players on that panel due to his work with minors and under-21s. He was instrumental in getting the team to a point where they had the confidence."
After the Dublin match, Coleman addressed the media. "I don't think I should talk to ye. You've been getting it wrong since Newry. I've been saying for 12 months we're as good a team as any in Ireland. Now we have proved it. We're in an All-Ireland final."
Four weeks later, they beat Cork and no team in Ireland was as good.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/01/22/dunloy-eye-all-ireland-glory-after-decades-of-slipping-and-climbing/ 

"In the All-Irelands we probably didn't learn from our semi-finals. The final is a completely different game. If there was a lesson learned, that was it. Semi-finals mean f**k-all."

Quote from: Ciarrai_thuaidh on July 15, 2023, 10:43:15 AM

Quote from: onefineday on July 15, 2023, 09:15:28 AM

Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2023, 11:34:25 AM
Judging by the current media round there's no point in turning up everyone wants a Kerry Dublin final to "save football"

We might as well just stop playing the game altogether and let Kerry and Dublin play every game between themselves!

Some of the utterly uninformed commentary is laughable. I listened to colm Boyle and Darren O'Sullivan on newstalk, Boyle was awful, throwing out line after line of nonsense showing that his only exposure to Derry was cos he got in early for the mayo v Dublin game and watched a few mins.
A lot of commentary has been the same, ultra defensive, play keep ball for minutes on end, slow methodical attacks which can't work (no recognition that those attacks were v cork, Galway and Donegal in games where all 30 players were in the opponent's half), not capable of attacking any other way, very limited panel, no supporting cast up front unlike Kerry (presume this is because seanie has played a little better the last 2 games).

I don't know, but I've seen the majority of Derry games the last few years and most of the shite being written isn't reflective of what we've been watching. Someone was questioning whether Derry can score goals for example - I suspect they're amongst the most clinical and goal minded teams around?

Really looking forward to this one and it will really tell us where we're at, Kerry can be vulnerable we've seen that all year, obviously a very good team, but Clifford aside is there much in it man for man?

They were really up for Tyrone, it might be difficult to get to that same level against a team they're expected to beat comfortably, better to save themselves for the dream final, it could be like that 2015 classic all over again!

I'm taking Glass to give us a masterclass tomorrow, defensively and attacking wise, redeem himself for last year's semi and nail on his footballer of the year credentials. Easy!!

You've a point there that I would agree with totally. And Darran O'Sullivan wouldn't have watched Derry v Cork I'd be fairly sure either. It's typical of the manure that largely passes for "journalism" on Football at the moment. Even the Football pod lads, who are good football men, spoof it a bit at times from abroad having clearly not really watched games.

I know it's behind a paywall but the Irish Examiner is really good on football, way ahead of most. Paul Rouse, Fitzmaurice (boring though he can be), James Horan, Malachy O'Rourke, Paddy Kelly and some other good, genuine football people. Who actually watch and are involved in football.

Cahair O'Kane in the irish news is one that has to be mentioned aswell in fairness. Regular quality output.

Most of the rest I wouldn't get worked up about.

The Football pod is generally good as is Anthony Moyles. Football coverage on OTB is good. In Ulster Declan Bogue is excellent.
Maurice Brosnan is good too.

A county player used to really stand out in club football primarily because of his skill level.that's no longer the case. Skill levels can be moderate to good but the absolute necessity now is athleticism and fitness. Most of the teams at the top level are at the same general level of fitness and conditioning (Derry possibly slightly ahead in recent years due to the amount of training they did during covid).
We have 5 or 6 game changers maximum - clucky, Mckindless, glass, Rodgers Mcguigan and possibly Cassidy) mcfaul too but not on this years form so far.
The rest are domestics, workers.
Kerry and Dublin simply have more game changers laced throughout their team and squad.
That's essentially the difference I think. We're just a wee bit short on quantity when it comes to last 4.

Quote from: Silver hill on July 15, 2023, 12:21:46 PM
A county player used to really stand out in club football primarily because of his skill level.that's no longer the case. Skill levels can be moderate to good but the absolute necessity now is athleticism and fitness. Most of the teams at the top level are at the same general level of fitness and conditioning (Derry possibly slightly ahead in recent years due to the amount of training they did during covid).
We have 5 or 6 game changers maximum - clucky, Mckindless, glass, Rodgers Mcguigan and possibly Cassidy) mcfaul too but not on this years form so far.
The rest are domestics, workers.
Kerry and Dublin simply have more game changers laced throughout their team and squad.
That's essentially the difference I think. We're just a wee bit short on quantity when it comes to last 4.

  ;D.. When did the Covid lockdown finish and what kind of strength & conditioning people do other counties have that they can't catch up with the 7 day a week Covid Lockdown breakers??!
You can add Ethan into the game changers and how many counties would have a better back 6? Add in a healthy spread of scorers across our half back / half forward lines, I think we're doing rightly.

Quote from: Silver hill on July 15, 2023, 12:21:46 PM
A county player used to really stand out in club football primarily because of his skill level.that's no longer the case. Skill levels can be moderate to good but the absolute necessity now is athleticism and fitness. Most of the teams at the top level are at the same general level of fitness and conditioning (Derry possibly slightly ahead in recent years due to the amount of training they did during covid).
We have 5 or 6 game changers maximum - clucky, Mckindless, glass, Rodgers Mcguigan and possibly Cassidy) mcfaul too but not on this years form so far.
The rest are domestics, workers.
Kerry and Dublin simply have more game changers laced throughout their team and squad.
That's essentially the difference I think. We're just a wee bit short on quantity when it comes to last 4.

Against Mayo Dublin were able to bring Jack McCaffrey and Ciaran Kilkenny off the bench who are absolute game changers....

Quote from: JoG2 on July 15, 2023, 12:37:23 PM

Quote from: Silver hill on July 15, 2023, 12:21:46 PM
A county player used to really stand out in club football primarily because of his skill level.that's no longer the case. Skill levels can be moderate to good but the absolute necessity now is athleticism and fitness. Most of the teams at the top level are at the same general level of fitness and conditioning (Derry possibly slightly ahead in recent years due to the amount of training they did during covid).
We have 5 or 6 game changers maximum - clucky, Mckindless, glass, Rodgers Mcguigan and possibly Cassidy) mcfaul too but not on this years form so far.
The rest are domestics, workers.
Kerry and Dublin simply have more game changers laced throughout their team and squad.
That's essentially the difference I think. We're just a wee bit short on quantity when it comes to last 4.

  ;D.. When did the Covid lockdown finish and what kind of strength & conditioning people do other counties have that they can't catch up with the 7 day a week Covid Lockdown breakers??!
You can add Ethan into the game changers and how many counties would have a better back 6? Add in a healthy spread of scorers across our half back / half forward lines, I think we're doing rightly.

Derry definitely stole a march on everyone else during lockdown and then for first year after that when they did a manic amount of fitness work (sometimes twice a day on a Saturday or Sunday). That has calmed this year but there's probably not a fitter team out there at the minute.
Agree re Ethan but he's yet to really catch fire this year. Hopefully tomorrow!

Quote from: onefineday on July 15, 2023, 09:15:28 AM

Quote from: screenexile on July 14, 2023, 11:34:25 AM
Judging by the current media round there's no point in turning up everyone wants a Kerry Dublin final to "save football"

We might as well just stop playing the game altogether and let Kerry and Dublin play every game between themselves!

Some of the utterly uninformed commentary is laughable. I listened to colm Boyle and Darren O'Sullivan on newstalk, Boyle was awful, throwing out line after line of nonsense showing that his only exposure to Derry was cos he got in early for the mayo v Dublin game and watched a few mins.
A lot of commentary has been the same, ultra defensive, play keep ball for minutes on end, slow methodical attacks which can't work (no recognition that those attacks were v cork, Galway and Donegal in games where all 30 players were in the opponent's half), not capable of attacking any other way, very limited panel, no supporting cast up front unlike Kerry (presume this is because seanie has played a little better the last 2 games).

I don't know, but I've seen the majority of Derry games the last few years and most of the shite being written isn't reflective of what we've been watching. Someone was questioning whether Derry can score goals for example - I suspect they're amongst the most clinical and goal minded teams around?

Really looking forward to this one and it will really tell us where we're at, Kerry can be vulnerable we've seen that all year, obviously a very good team, but Clifford aside is there much in it man for man?

They were really up for Tyrone, it might be difficult to get to that same level against a team they're expected to beat comfortably, better to save themselves for the dream final, it could be like that 2015 classic all over again!

I'm taking Glass to give us a masterclass tomorrow, defensively and attacking wise, redeem himself for last year's semi and nail on his footballer of the year credentials. Easy!!

this +1

The Kerry midfield duo were cleaned out by the Steelstown midfield not that long ago. Conor Glass should be dominating tomorrow.

Weren't cleaned out, Steelstown had the sense to play round them

Both our midfielders got the better of Barry and oconnor on the kick outs.
Midfield is definitely somewhere we have an advantage on for tomorrow. Half back line as well, but need to contain paudie Clifford. I think our hf line should win that battle as well. If we dominate that middle 8 it will go a long way to nullifying the Kerry forward threat.

Quote from: Silver hill on July 15, 2023, 04:19:39 PM

Quote from: JoG2 on July 15, 2023, 12:37:23 PM

Quote from: Silver hill on July 15, 2023, 12:21:46 PM
A county player used to really stand out in club football primarily because of his skill level.that's no longer the case. Skill levels can be moderate to good but the absolute necessity now is athleticism and fitness. Most of the teams at the top level are at the same general level of fitness and conditioning (Derry possibly slightly ahead in recent years due to the amount of training they did during covid).
We have 5 or 6 game changers maximum - clucky, Mckindless, glass, Rodgers Mcguigan and possibly Cassidy) mcfaul too but not on this years form so far.
The rest are domestics, workers.
Kerry and Dublin simply have more game changers laced throughout their team and squad.
That's essentially the difference I think. We're just a wee bit short on quantity when it comes to last 4.

  ;D.. When did the Covid lockdown finish and what kind of strength & conditioning people do other counties have that they can't catch up with the 7 day a week Covid Lockdown breakers??!
You can add Ethan into the game changers and how many counties would have a better back 6? Add in a healthy spread of scorers across our half back / half forward lines, I think we're doing rightly.

Derry definitely stole a march on everyone else during lockdown and then for first year after that when they did a manic amount of fitness work (sometimes twice a day on a Saturday or Sunday). That has calmed this year but there's probably not a fitter team out there at the minute.
Agree re Ethan but he's yet to really catch fire this year. Hopefully tomorrow!

Could do with a big game from Ethan tomorrow.  Back to where we want to be and hopefully will give an improved performance.  Will need a couple of goals for a win with a clean sheet at the other end.  Doire abú!!

Any idea of expected attendance? 40-50k?

Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 15, 2023, 11:05:01 PM
Any idea of expected attendance? 40-50k?

50k is the expected attendance.

Simply put  we need couple of points a piece from Loughlin/ Toner/McFaul tomorrow on top of scores from Doherty/ Cassidy. We can't reply on McGuigan tomorrow as Kerry double up on him. Half back line needs to fire on all cyclinders. Not sure, about Midfield, O'connor could get alot of space with Glass playing very deep. I prefer to see one of the forwards pick him up. Clifford, well can he play as bad as the last day. Away early in the morning, still not sure if we got the answers to some questions, mainly the last 15mins and a bench which simply not had enough game time outside of Cassidy, Heron. Am happy McNeill there to come in, who's the other 2, Murray, Cassidy?

Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 15, 2023, 11:05:01 PM
Any idea of expected attendance? 40-50k?

Nearer the 40 I would have thought, maybe even less if Kilkenny and New York don't bring a wheen!  :D  It feels as if not as many Derry supporters travelling as v Gaillimh last year.  Croke Park have given an expected figure of 50,000 - so they might be in the know!! :o

Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 15, 2023, 11:05:01 PM
Any idea of expected attendance? 40-50k?

Think so Walt. 7 sections of the upper Cusack have been on sale since Wednesday, only tickets left for the back rows atm. A scattering of tickets still left in the lower Davin by the looks of it

From a Google search:

the hill/nally terrace holds 13 thousand
corporate/premium holds 8 thousand
lower tier holds 43 thousand
upper tier holds 18 thousand
wheelchair area 3 hundred

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 15, 2023, 11:08:49 PM
Simply put  we need couple of points a piece from Loughlin/ Toner/McFaul tomorrow on top of scores from Doherty/ Cassidy. We can't reply on McGuigan tomorrow as Kerry double up on him. Half back line needs to fire on all cyclinders. Not sure, about Midfield, O'connor could get alot of space with Glass playing very deep. I prefer to see one of the forwards pick him up. Clifford, well can he play as bad as the last day. Away early in the morning, still not sure if we got the answers to some questions, mainly the last 15mins and a bench which simply not had enough game time outside of Cassidy, Heron. Am happy McNeill there to come in, who's the other 2, Murray, Cassidy?

I think Kerry will put Jack Barry on Glass and sacrifice him in an effort to nullify Conor.  Agree re the forwards - not sure I would have Toner on at all except we are short a free taker from that side.  Morley will sweep all day so we need to be inventive there to take advantage and patient. 

Btw, If you're ticket is for the Hill, and you want to stand near the goalposts, don't be fooled by the stewards telling you that you can go in any turnstile for the Hill.  Take the first two turnstiles only as you turn in from Clonliffe.  If you go on to the latter two, you'll be over in the corner (unless you climb the barriers).

Kerry crowd will save themselves for 2 weeks time.

Quote from: HiMucker on July 15, 2023, 09:23:51 PM
Both our midfielders got the better of Barry and oconnor on the kick outs.
Midfield is definitely somewhere we have an advantage on for tomorrow. Half back line as well, but need to contain paudie Clifford. I think our hf line should win that battle as well. If we dominate that middle 8 it will go a long way to nullifying the Kerry forward threat.

Look, best of luck to Derry but that is an amazing analysis. If that were the case Derry will win pulling up. Dermot O'Connor has the potential to be one of the best if not the best midfielder in the country, he has it all.  At 24, finally that seems to be coming to fruition. Gavin White is the best wing back in the country. Paudie Clifford is the Kerry play maker supreme, wearing #13 but will be everywhere. Jason Foley V Shane McGuigan is huge, Foley hasn't been beaten all year, even when Kerry were playing badly. If Derry come out on top in all those 4 areas they will be well on the way to victory. Kerry always had difficulties breaking down systems, tomorrow may be no different. Their fast accurate kick passing could be the key to unlocking it. The drier the sod the better in order for that to work. Like today, I expect the stronger bench to get their team over the line.

How many of Derry 15 would make Kerry 15?

Quote from: Seamus on July 16, 2023, 12:41:18 AM

Quote from: HiMucker on July 15, 2023, 09:23:51 PM
Both our midfielders got the better of Barry and oconnor on the kick outs.
Midfield is definitely somewhere we have an advantage on for tomorrow. Half back line as well, but need to contain paudie Clifford. I think our hf line should win that battle as well. If we dominate that middle 8 it will go a long way to nullifying the Kerry forward threat.

Look, best of luck to Derry but that is an amazing analysis. If that were the case Derry will win pulling up. Dermot O'Connor has the potential to be one of the best if not the best midfielder in the country, he has it all.  At 24, finally that seems to be coming to fruition. Gavin White is the best wing back in the country. Paudie Clifford is the Kerry play maker supreme, wearing #13 but will be everywhere. Jason Foley V Shane McGuigan is huge, Foley hasn't been beaten all year, even when Kerry were playing badly. If Derry come out on top in all those 4 areas they will be well on the way to victory. Kerry always had difficulties breaking down systems, tomorrow may be no different. Their fast accurate kick passing could be the key to unlocking it. The drier the sod the better in order for that to work. Like today, I expect the stronger bench to get their team over the line.

It actually Diarmuid not Dermot O'Connor   "Diarmuid " is new Michael O'Connell

Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 16, 2023, 01:11:48 AM

Quote from: Seamus on July 16, 2023, 12:41:18 AM

Quote from: HiMucker on July 15, 2023, 09:23:51 PM
Both our midfielders got the better of Barry and oconnor on the kick outs.
Midfield is definitely somewhere we have an advantage on for tomorrow. Half back line as well, but need to contain paudie Clifford. I think our hf line should win that battle as well. If we dominate that middle 8 it will go a long way to nullifying the Kerry forward threat.

Look, best of luck to Derry but that is an amazing analysis. If that were the case Derry will win pulling up. Dermot O'Connor has the potential to be one of the best if not the best midfielder in the country, he has it all.  At 24, finally that seems to be coming to fruition. Gavin White is the best wing back in the country. Paudie Clifford is the Kerry play maker supreme, wearing #13 but will be everywhere. Jason Foley V Shane McGuigan is huge, Foley hasn't been beaten all year, even when Kerry were playing badly. If Derry come out on top in all those 4 areas they will be well on the way to victory. Kerry always had difficulties breaking down systems, tomorrow may be no different. Their fast accurate kick passing could be the key to unlocking it. The drier the sod the better in order for that to work. Like today, I expect the stronger bench to get their team over the line.

It actually Diarmuid not Dermot O'Connor   "Diarmuid " is new Michael O'Connell

Of course Buzz, I should have checked the spelling, I have been watching him since he was a garsun. Maybe the new Micko but not the new Jacko

Quote from: restorepride on July 15, 2023, 11:11:36 PM

Quote from: Walter Cronc on July 15, 2023, 11:05:01 PM
Any idea of expected attendance? 40-50k?

Nearer the 40 I would have thought, maybe even less if Kilkenny and New York don't bring a wheen!  :D  It feels as if not as many Derry supporters travelling as v Gaillimh last year.  Croke Park have given an expected figure of 50,000 - so they might be in the know!! :o

If they had put the Meath-Down game on today it might have been close to a sell out.

Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 16, 2023, 01:09:52 AM
How many of Derry 15 would make Kerry 15?

Depends on what roles you'd want for them, but you could easily make a case for half the team I'd have thought. May not all be upgrades, but neither would they be downgrades.
It might take that mixture of the best 15 from both to stop the mighty dubs in the final too!

Derry to put up a gallant effort and do ulster football proud ( plus the anyone but Dublin or Kerry brigade )

But eventually football will win out after 50-55 mins and Kerry's supreme footballers will come through.

You can do all the running, S&C, handpassing, basketball and possession control you want but against a packed defence it won't put the ball over the bar from distance if McGuigan isn't on song.

Everyone on the Kerry team can kick a point, we saw that the last day.

Give the people what they want, Dublin v Kerry.

That's what the people will tune in for. Not pass the ball around the back line , slow build up, hand pass it into the correct position for a shot, and only then are you allowed to shoot.

Away soon, just hope we put in some sort of performanceabd not fall flat like the 2nd Half against Galway last year.

could we see a derry collapse if if does not go their way in first 15 mins

For Derry to have any real chance here today, they'll need to inflict themselves manically on Kerry, just as Tyrone did in the 2003 AISF -- easier said than done, for sure, but business as usual just won't cut it, I'd say.

For Kerry it just about getting a result and having no injuries or suspensions for the final.

Bar Glass and McGuigan how many other Derry players would make kerry 15?

Found it interesting that there was a couple of off the ball frees given to Dublin yesterday for holding... is this something refs are focusing on this week, I noticed Tom O'Sullivan had a hold of Darragh Canavan's jersey in most Tyrone attacks in the first half, not complaining as Hampsey was likely at the same on Clifford. I think McGuigan will be cute enough to win frees if Foley or O'Sullivan are at the same today.
Derry have the runners like Ethan Doherty, McKinless who are experts at winning frees also

Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 16, 2023, 11:49:39 AM
Bar Glass and McGuigan how many other Derry players would make kerry 15?

McCluskey, McKaigue, Rogers, Ethan Doherty

Would be surprised if mcguigan shows up today

Quote from: inroundthesquare on July 16, 2023, 11:53:38 AM

Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 16, 2023, 11:49:39 AM
Bar Glass and McGuigan how many other Derry players would make kerry 15?

McCluskey, McKaigue, Rogers, Ethan Doherty

Mckinless, Cassidy, Conor Doherty, McFaul be in with a shout too.

Quote from: WT4E on July 16, 2023, 12:43:20 PM
Would be surprised if mcguigan shows up today

Yeah, good point, he hasn't even got man of the match in every game this year, only half of them. And he's only ever picked up one such award in his three senior championship games in croker before, so chances are he'll be anonymous.

Can Derry score enough?

Fook it, after that reception Derry by 3.

Yeroooooooooooo!

Kerry by 10, possible more

Both teams start as selected, rare enough nowadays for that to happen.

Quote from: tbrick18 on July 16, 2023, 03:37:16 PM
Fook it, after that reception Derry by 3.

Yeroooooooooooo!

Ha! Derry for me by the minimum. Good luck

Kerry one championship defeat to Ulster opposition in 11 years.
Since Kerry has adopted a more defensive they no longer fear Ulster opposition . Ulster teams now fear Kerry.

One of those games where you wish both would lose.

Goal chance for both teams in the opening two minutes.

Kerry sledging . This is the stuff Spillange used cry about when happened to Kerry.

Two goals in a minute. 6 mins Kerry lead 1-1 to 1-0

15 minutes played Derry leading 1-3 to 1-1

Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 16, 2023, 04:00:50 PM
Kerry one championship defeat to Ulster opposition in 11 years.
Since Kerry has adopted a more defensive they no longer fear Ulster opposition . Ulster teams now fear Kerry.

Lol no they don't. There's nothing special about them over Dublin or Galway.

Clifford and McGuigan showing up so far anyway.

Quote from: Silkyskillssunshinee on July 16, 2023, 04:20:53 PM
Clifford and McGuigan showing up so far anyway.

Both management teams will have to double up instead of leaving them one on one.

Kerry 1-5 to 1-4 in front 23 mins gone.

It's very cagey so far

Not allowed to tackle Clifford at all it seems...

Quote from: screenexile on July 16, 2023, 04:27:18 PM
Not allowed to tackle Clifford at all it seems...

Good explanation from Deegan

'Kerry' Joe! Enjoyable game so far.

Quote from: tonto1888 on July 16, 2023, 04:28:02 PM

Quote from: screenexile on July 16, 2023, 04:27:18 PM
Not allowed to tackle Clifford at all it seems...

Good explanation from Deegan

Simple enough call for Chrissy and easy black card

Not Dublin Joe anymore, it's kerry joe

Goals are there for Derry . 

A foolish black card by Diarmuid O'Connor. Derry two in front 30 minutes played.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 04:28:51 PM

Quote from: tonto1888 on July 16, 2023, 04:28:02 PM

Quote from: screenexile on July 16, 2023, 04:27:18 PM
Not allowed to tackle Clifford at all it seems...

Good explanation from Deegan

Simple enough call for Chrissy and easy black card

Not a big fan of McQuillan but think he is having a good game

This is Derrys for the taking

Shane Ryan deserves at least a yellow for that.

If that's not charging then I don't know what is?

Rogers is doing well

Schumacher move there.

There's zero intensity from the Kerry defence compared to the Tyrone game.

FML DERRY GONNA WIN THIS

Foley getting destroyed

Normally I can't hack  watching Derry , but they've been  brilliant so far

Quote from: clarshack on July 16, 2023, 04:35:27 PM
There's zero intensity from the Kerry defence compared to the Tyrone game.

I said it before kerry played there final against tyrone. Where so intense would be hard to match it.

Paudie Clifford the type of player needs a slap every time he leaves the house

To be fair to Derry, their 'system' is a lot easier to watch when they actually face a side at their level.

Just not great to watch them grind the likes of Cork, Clare and Monaghan to death.

Raised elbow there from Clifford?

Derry Joe

Quote from: clarshack on July 16, 2023, 04:35:27 PM
There's zero intensity from the Kerry defence compared to the Tyrone game.

Kerry clearly  don't hate Derry  enough  ,like they do Tyrone

Clifford's mark free taken from completely the wrong position. Sick of this,time for the spray foam to mark free location properly. Good game.

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 16, 2023, 04:39:23 PM

Quote from: Harold Disgracey on July 16, 2023, 04:38:19 PM
Raised elbow there from Clifford?

What?

It was perfect.

On first look looked like high elbow but on replay looked legit hit

Every free. Does my head in

Half time Derry 1-11 Kerry 1-8.  Good half of football and a deserved lead for Derry.

Can't see Derry losing this. They just have more energy today.

Quote from: WT4E on July 16, 2023, 04:40:12 PM

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 16, 2023, 04:39:23 PM

Quote from: Harold Disgracey on July 16, 2023, 04:38:19 PM
Raised elbow there from Clifford?

What?

It was perfect.

On first look looked like high elbow but on replay looked legit hit

Real time looked a free, that's how Joe seen it, that's all that matters

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 16, 2023, 04:39:23 PM

Quote from: Harold Disgracey on July 16, 2023, 04:38:19 PM
Raised elbow there from Clifford?

What?

It was perfect.

The elbow came up after the shoulder, something the often happens when a smaller player hits a bigger man. Recall Brian Mallon being sent off for a similar hit on Rory Woods.

Super first half from Derry, they've unleashed the dogs and went for it in a controlled way.

Two wrong calls even themselves out, I guess.  Kerry keeper should have seen yellow, Clifford shouldn't have.

Kerry have the more talented team but Dublin are better at beating this system than Kerry. Kilkenny, Fenton, Bugler, McCarthy etc would only love if Derry win this.

Without Clifford Kerry really are nothing special.

What was mckauige yellow for

Quote from: WT4E on July 16, 2023, 04:45:16 PM
What was mckauige yellow for

He grabbed Clifford's jersey

Quote from: WT4E on July 16, 2023, 04:45:16 PM
What was mckauige yellow for

Presume persistent fouling.

Quote from: Silkyskillssunshinee on July 16, 2023, 04:44:18 PM
Kerry have the more talented team but Dublin are better at beating this system than Kerry. Kilkenny, Fenton, Bugler, McCarthy etc would only love if Derry win this.

Honestly I don't like Derry the noisy neighbours but that is a load of shit. Kerry have Clifford.. but Derry have a host of talented footballlers

Quote from: Harold Disgracey on July 16, 2023, 04:46:10 PM

Quote from: WT4E on July 16, 2023, 04:45:16 PM
What was mckauige yellow for

Presume persistent fouling.

Being near Clifford.

Quote from: clarshack on July 16, 2023, 04:35:27 PM
There's zero intensity from the Kerry defence compared to the Tyrone game.

Reinforcing my belief that Kerry have a weird issue with Tyrone and still haven't got over 2003.

Quote from: SouthDublinBro on July 16, 2023, 04:44:34 PM
Without Clifford Kerry really are nothing special.

Well he was poor against Throne & they annihilated them

Who is the Derry physio?

Derry at 11/8 right now is surely tremendous value. Bookies still have Kerry as favourite...

Quote from: RedHand88 on July 16, 2023, 04:46:57 PM

Quote from: clarshack on July 16, 2023, 04:35:27 PM
There's zero intensity from the Kerry defence compared to the Tyrone game.

Reinforcing my belief that Kerry have a weird issue with Tyrone and still haven't got over 2003.

Hopefully they will obsess with Derry instead after today.

4/6 Kerry are! Strange

Tyrone's shadow is all over this game. 

McConville embarrassing himself with a lack of understanding regarding what a black card offense is.

Correct it wasn't a deliberate pull down, it was, as Deegan pointed out, a deliberate trip. Then the huff afterwards with Harte having to calm him down

Learning the rules should be a minimum requirement to be a pundit.

Quote from: Silkyskillssunshinee on July 16, 2023, 04:44:18 PM
Kerry have the more talented team but Dublin are better at beating this system than Kerry. Kilkenny, Fenton, Bugler, McCarthy etc would only love if Derry win this.

They don't have the more talented team on this showing

Quote from: tyroneman on July 16, 2023, 04:52:52 PM
McConville embarrassing himself with a lack of understanding regarding what a black card offense is.

Correct it wasn't a deliberate lull down, it was, as Deegan pointed out, a deliberate trip. Then the huff afterwards.

Learning the rules should be a minimum requirement to be a pundit.

Scary and he a IC manager and doesn't know the rulebook.

Quote from: tyroneman on July 16, 2023, 04:52:52 PM
McConville embarrassing himself with a lack of understanding regarding what a black card offense is.

Correct it wasn't a deliberate lull down, it was, as Deegan pointed out, a deliberate trip. Then the huff afterwards.

Learning the rules should be a minimum requirement to be a pundit.

He's also a manager too! Bizarre that he's clueless with the rules

I didnt realise Ronan Gallagher was part of the Derry set up.

Quote from: tyroneman on July 16, 2023, 04:52:52 PM
McConville embarrassing himself with a lack of understanding regarding what a black card offense is.

Correct it wasn't a deliberate lull down, it was, as Deegan pointed out, a deliberate trip. Then the huff afterwards.

Learning the rules should be a minimum requirement to be a pundit.

And the fact he is an IC Manager and doesent know the rule.

Quote from: RedHand88 on July 16, 2023, 04:50:53 PM
Derry at 11/8 right now is surely tremendous value. Bookies still have Kerry as favourite...

Don't waste money on Derry as Kerry will up the gears in second half. Expect to target Lynch in nets

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 04:52:01 PM
4/6 Kerry are! Strange

It is especially when Kerry are defending as poorly today as they did against Mayo.

Quote from: Silkyskillssunshinee on July 16, 2023, 04:44:18 PM
Kerry have the more talented team but Dublin are better at beating this system than Kerry. Kilkenny, Fenton, Bugler, McCarthy etc would only love if Derry win this.

Kerry will beat the dubs well in final.

Conor Glass in game. Rogers very good.

Clifford does that bounce dummy all the time and gets away with it

Start to the second half Kerry would have wanted. Derry lead cut to one point.

Very soft free for Geaney there.

Free taken from wrong place again.

Quote from: clarshack on July 16, 2023, 05:07:09 PM
Very soft free for Geaney there.

Man over the ball dips, any touch on the back is the easiest of frees to give away

Quote from: Rudi on July 16, 2023, 05:07:52 PM
Free taken from wrong place again.

Would he have scored it had the white line been there?

I'm with you and mentioned it a while ago, should have a white spray

Kerry have upped the tempo.
Derry can't afford to lose the ball when they attack. Otherwise a repeat of last year awaits

50 mins played Derry 1-12 Kerry 1-12

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:10:28 PM

Quote from: Rudi on July 16, 2023, 05:07:52 PM
Free taken from wrong place again.

Would he have scored it had the white line been there?

I'm with you and mentioned it a while ago, should have a white spray

Probably but not the gimme it turned out to be. Its ridiculous at this stage, the stealing of meters & lessening of angle.

The Kerry dark arts thread will be getting a bump. 

55 mins gone. Derry leading by 1 point could be further ahead but wasted a few good goal scoring chances.

What Kerry are doing to McGuigan is disgraceful.

Today we have two equally rested teams playing each other.

Why did the GAA have to create inequalities in the QF stage?

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 16, 2023, 05:18:42 PM
Today we have two equally rested teams playing each other.

Why did the GAA have to create inequalities in the QF stage?

I was thinking the same thing

Kerry look like they have ran out of ideas up front.

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2023, 05:19:42 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 16, 2023, 05:18:42 PM
Today we have two equally rested teams playing each other.

Why did the GAA have to create inequalities in the QF stage?

I was thinking the same thing

Plus 1, Mayo or Tyone not given any chance.

Derry two in front 60 mins played. Dublin Monaghan was 0-12 each on 60 mins yesterday.

Derry have this

Quote from: Rudi on July 16, 2023, 05:23:07 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2023, 05:19:42 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 16, 2023, 05:18:42 PM
Today we have two equally rested teams playing each other.

Why did the GAA have to create inequalities in the QF stage?

I was thinking the same thing

Plus 1, Mayo or Tyone not given any chance.

Making teams play 3 weekends in a row was desperate. Huge flaw with this system.

Kerry have this. Derry look tired.

Quote from: RedHand88 on July 16, 2023, 05:24:47 PM

Quote from: Rudi on July 16, 2023, 05:23:07 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2023, 05:19:42 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 16, 2023, 05:18:42 PM
Today we have two equally rested teams playing each other.

Why did the GAA have to create inequalities in the QF stage?

I was thinking the same thing

Plus 1, Mayo or Tyone not given any chance.

Making teams play 3 weekends in a row was desperate. Huge flaw with this system.

So what's the solution? No benefits to wining your province?

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:26:20 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on July 16, 2023, 05:24:47 PM

Quote from: Rudi on July 16, 2023, 05:23:07 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2023, 05:19:42 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 16, 2023, 05:18:42 PM
Today we have two equally rested teams playing each other.

Why did the GAA have to create inequalities in the QF stage?

I was thinking the same thing

Plus 1, Mayo or Tyone not given any chance.

Making teams play 3 weekends in a row was desperate. Huge flaw with this system.

So what's the solution? No benefits to wining your province?

There are benefits. You get a provincial medal.

Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 16, 2023, 05:26:05 PM
Kerry have this. Derry look tired.

Lad Kerry haven't scored in 20 minutes.

Kerry have been pretty flat so far with 5 mins of normal time left.

Joe is Kerry motm.

67 mins on the clock. Derry 1-14 Kerry 1-14

Joe has been given his orders. 

Quote from: RedHand88 on July 16, 2023, 05:27:29 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:26:20 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on July 16, 2023, 05:24:47 PM

Quote from: Rudi on July 16, 2023, 05:23:07 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2023, 05:19:42 PM

Quote from: From the Bunker on July 16, 2023, 05:18:42 PM
Today we have two equally rested teams playing each other.

Why did the GAA have to create inequalities in the QF stage?

I was thinking the same thing

Plus 1, Mayo or Tyone not given any chance.

Making teams play 3 weekends in a row was desperate. Huge flaw with this system.

So what's the solution? No benefits to wining your province?

There are benefits. You get a provincial medal.

Ah, cause ultimately you enter the competition to win that.

There's only one medal that counts

Derry needed to take those goal chances. Almost inevitable Kerry (with the help of the ref) will creep back into it

Derry making mistakes now, last 4 scores for Kerry.

3 big games in Croke Park in a year, 2 semi finals and a club final and Glass has went awol in all of them.

Quote from: Gael80 on July 16, 2023, 05:33:07 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Three big calls with Derry two up. The free in the middle and the two soft frees. I think they were all wrong calls. Changed the game. It's why Derry had to take their goal chances.

Ive saif it her a million times......the big teams get the big calls

Bad from McKinless and he's hurt himself in the process.

FT Kerry 1-17 Derry 1-15.  Scores dried up for Derry in the 2nd half only 0-4 and left to rue those missed goal chances.

Wtf was he thinking with that free!

Both Dublin and Kerry are flawed. They should rerun the QFs.

He didn't have to take the free from that position

Quote from: grounded on July 16, 2023, 05:42:43 PM
Wtf was he thinking with that free!

Said the same.. Completely f**king stupid, individualism that he wanted the score to his name? Or what was going through his head

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:44:19 PM
He didn't have to take the free from that position

Philly called it. Said he had moved in too close

Quote from: Mourne Red on July 16, 2023, 05:44:59 PM

Quote from: grounded on July 16, 2023, 05:42:43 PM
Wtf was he thinking with that free!

Said the same.. Completely f**king stupid, individualism that he wanted the score to his name? Or what was going through his head

Must have wanted another 0-1 to his name in the papers.

Quote from: tonto1888 on July 16, 2023, 05:45:07 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:44:19 PM
He didn't have to take the free from that position

Philly called it. Said he had moved in too close

You can still take it back as long as you don't move it to a better position or beyond the move position

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

2 very good semi finals.  Monaghan & Derry a tad unlucky. Quarter finalists need a minimum of 13 days rest.

Derry missed some good chances when 2 up plus McKinless should have taken points on both occasions when he got through.  Had Derry got 4 up Kerry would have had to open up a bit and that would have suited Derry. Great chance of reaching an AI final missed

Dublin mediocre yesterday, Kerry similar today but Derry will have some regrets after today. It's anybody's guess who wins it now.

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

They were both fouls.

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Is a soft free a free or not?

Stephen O'Brien's impact off the bench a game changer. Does he start the next day or come on at HT again?

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Derry were well beaten at the end...ref gave them a chance with the extra minutes but Derry crapped the bed. Better team won whilst not playing well for most of the game

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:50:27 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Is a soft free a free or not?

I've raised this before. I hate the term soft free. It's either a free or it's not

Quote from: Mourne Red on July 16, 2023, 05:44:59 PM

Quote from: grounded on July 16, 2023, 05:42:43 PM
Wtf was he thinking with that free!

Said the same.. Completely f**king stupid, individualism that he wanted the score to his name? Or what was going through his head

He simply over hit it.

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

I didn't think either were free kicks and it's amazing how McQuillan is still continuing to get big games at this stage. He must have connections because it's not based on competency. His job is not to make the game a close contest it's to apply the rules.

I'm still not sure how Derry lost that, they were much the better team all day. It looked like they just run out of gas near the end, Roger's (who was superb) looked dead on his feet there.

So, the classico final is happening but both teams didn't arrive as they expected to.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:50:27 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Is a soft free a free or not?

I used the wrong  term.  I don't  think either were free kicks

In the replays both of the soft frees were clearly frees.  Derry left this one behind them with their profligacy in front of goal in the second half.

Kingdom deserved winners. Sean Cavanagh is some dose it must be said lol. Should be a great Final hopefully.

Quote from: Piskin on July 16, 2023, 05:57:10 PM
Kingdom deserved winners. Sean Cavanagh is some dose it must be said lol. Should be a great Final hopefully.

Derry 100% left that behind them.

Quote from: bennydorano on July 16, 2023, 05:53:03 PM
I'm still not sure how Derry lost that, they were much the better team all day. It looked like they just run out of gas near the end, Roger's (who was superb) looked dead on his feet there.

So, the classico final is happening but both teams didn't arrive as they expected to.

Simliar than Monaghan yesterday. Giving a very good account of themselves for an hour then outscored in the final 10 minutes plus added time 0-5 to 0-1. Dublin, Kerry simply have better impact off their benches to push home for the wins.

Have Kerry and Dublin only met in an All-Ireland Final every 4 years since 2011?

Quote from: RedHand88 on July 16, 2023, 05:58:02 PM

Quote from: Piskin on July 16, 2023, 05:57:10 PM
Kingdom deserved winners. Sean Cavanagh is some dose it must be said lol. Should be a great Final hopefully.

Derry 100% left that behind them.

totally agree, feel so bad for them.
btw, pigskin is just the same WUM  aka EIRO OG, KERRY FOR SAMS and many others.

Quote from: RedHand88 on July 16, 2023, 05:58:02 PM

Quote from: Piskin on July 16, 2023, 05:57:10 PM
Kingdom deserved winners. Sean Cavanagh is some dose it must be said lol. Should be a great Final hopefully.

Derry 100% left that behind them.

They didn't have the balls or the brains to be brutally honest. Kerry didn't panic when the pressure was on especially when they were kicking wides late on.

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:54:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:50:27 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Is a soft free a free or not?

I used the wrong  term.  I don't  think either were free kicks

Push in back when try to dip the ball is a free, when did that change?

Quote from: RedHand88 on July 16, 2023, 05:58:02 PM

Quote from: Piskin on July 16, 2023, 05:57:10 PM
Kingdom deserved winners. Sean Cavanagh is some dose it must be said lol. Should be a great Final hopefully.

Derry 100% left that behind them.

Terrible pundit who constantly interrupts others & cuts in when they are making a point. How or why they keep bringing him back is beyond me.

Few very soft frees to Kerry and then the referee missed the closed fist into the ribs for the Clifford turn over
But Derry butchered too many chances

The last flick of the ball to delay the quick free should have been a red card - very dangerous to block someone kicking the ball like that

Quote from: Gael80 on July 16, 2023, 06:00:54 PM

Quote from: Piskin on July 16, 2023, 05:51:34 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Derry were well beaten at the end...ref gave them a chance with the extra minutes but Derry crapped the bed. Better team won whilst not playing well for most of the game

You need a bit of luck to win All Ireland's. Kerry got the big call in last years final and two game changing and probably game determining decisions today. Got out of jail but they'll take it and should be a good final. Better team lost today, that is championship football.

Yet the ref gave Derry every chance at the end with the extra minutes. Better team won whilst not playing their best

Quote from: Piskin on July 16, 2023, 05:57:10 PM
Kingdom deserved winners. Sean Cavanagh is some dose it must be said lol. Should be a great Final hopefully.

+1

Quote from: Silkyskillssunshinee on July 16, 2023, 05:50:54 PM
Stephen O'Brien's impact off the bench a game changer. Does he start the next day or come on at HT again?

He starts 100%, and that game brings Kerry on a tonne.  The 10 minutes without O'Connor was huge.  Shows how important he's become.  Clifford unreal.
Great effort from Derry.  They had the chances but it wouldn't drop for them. 4 points in second half killed them.  Thought they ran out of legs whereas as Kerry emptied the bench and stayed strong. It's been pointed out a thousand times that the bench was an achilles heal.  If Derry keep evolving they've a few good years to look forward to based on today.

Quote from: yellowcard on July 16, 2023, 05:52:28 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

I didn't think either were free kicks and it's amazing how McQuillan is still continuing to get big games at this stage. He must have connections because it's not based on competency. His job is not to make the game a close contest it's to apply the rules.

The o';brien one wasn't a free. He just went so low with his sidestep that he fell

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 06:03:29 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:54:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:50:27 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Is a soft free a free or not?

I used the wrong  term.  I don't  think either were free kicks

Push in back when try to dip the ball is a free, when did that change?

What was the foul on the other one? Think it was O'Brien who was "fouled"

Quote from: joemamas on July 16, 2023, 06:00:07 PM

Quote from: RedHand88 on July 16, 2023, 05:58:02 PM

Quote from: Piskin on July 16, 2023, 05:57:10 PM
Kingdom deserved winners. Sean Cavanagh is some dose it must be said lol. Should be a great Final hopefully.

Derry 100% left that behind them.

Don't be petty & bitter.  Derry were not good enough to win it as Kerry were not at their best. It's very simple whoever scores the most in the game wins...

totally agree, feel so bad for them.
btw, pigskin is just the same WUM  aka EIRO OG, KERRY FOR SAMS and many others.

Dubs will handle Ciarraí in the AIF -- the Muckers have shown the way.

Quote from: pbat on July 16, 2023, 05:33:50 PM
3 big games in Croke Park in a year, 2 semi finals and a club final and Glass has went awol in all of them.

Thats harsh. He does a mountain of defensive work that you don't see.
   But for the record, I don't like the way he plays for Glen or Derry. He's set up as a defensive midfielder.  Why? He has far more to offer. At minor level he was a menace going forward but this attacking element of his game must be coached out of him.
     If you look at mcKinless's chance in the second half, Glass was outside of him in a central position but made no real effort to support him and offer another option. I cant understand it.
     
         

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 16, 2023, 06:09:58 PM
Dubs will handle Ciarraí in the AIF -- the Muckers have shown the way.

Agreed. Fenton, Kilkenny, McCarthy all have at least one more massive performance left in them on the big stage. Dubs by 3

Derry don't quite have it takes to win the all Ireland.
Eamonn Coleman knew he did before they started in 1993


Irish Times
"Coleman wasn't just a vaudevillian turn outside dressing rooms. He had walked the walk, bringing a minor All-Ireland back to the county in 1983. In 1992, Derry won the NFL and previously he had piloted University of Ulster at Jordanstown (UUJ) to their first Sigerson Cups in 1986 and 1987.
Gormley was on both of those UUJ teams. He remembers being struck by Coleman's implacable views on what would be good enough for Derry. How had the manager affected the county team?
"Unbelievably. It wouldn't have happened without him. I remember the night before a Sigerson final, we were discussing the Derry team and naming players. I came up with someone and Eamonn said, 'no, he'd never cut the mustard in Croke Park — too slow'. I said sure we have to win Ulster first but his attitude was if a player wasn't good enough to win an All-Ireland, he wasn't good enough. I was struck by that because for me Ulster teams never came into the reckoning for All-Irelands. Eamonn's ambitions were different.""

Extremely soft free given by McQuillan for a foul on O'Brien reduced the gap to one. Just when Derry thought they had a huge turnover. Seemed like a big momentum changer. Reminded me of the late very soft free Kerry got in last year's final at almost the same point in the game. That also negated a big turnover.

That said Derry kept Kerry scoreless for 15 minutes earlier in the 2nd half but they wasted quite a few chances to extend their lead up to 4, 5 or 6 up. I'd say they will have plenty regrets after this one unfortunately.

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 16, 2023, 06:06:49 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on July 16, 2023, 05:52:28 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

I didn't think either were free kicks and it's amazing how McQuillan is still continuing to get big games at this stage. He must have connections because it's not based on competency. His job is not to make the game a close contest it's to apply the rules.

The o';brien one wasn't a free. He just went so low with his sidestep that he fell

That was a gamechanger. Momentum swung Kerry's was at that moment.  Derry were marginally he better team, just showed a bit of niaivity in front of the posts in the second half, with some excellent blocks and saves by Kerry also. But as someone said already, the big teams get the breaks. Would like to know what mcquillan said to mcguigan before that last kick?

You could say the Clifford shoulder which was a turnover ball for Kerry but was a mistaken free for Derry was a momentum changer in the first half. Derry should've taken that goal chance, instead of soccer shit he should've picked her up and buried it.

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 16, 2023, 06:09:58 PM
Dubs will handle Ciarraí in the AIF -- the Muckers have shown the way.

Nil me ceaptha. Ciarrai are younger.

Quote from: Whishtup on July 16, 2023, 06:24:58 PM

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 16, 2023, 06:06:49 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on July 16, 2023, 05:52:28 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

I didn't think either were free kicks and it's amazing how McQuillan is still continuing to get big games at this stage. He must have connections because it's not based on competency. His job is not to make the game a close contest it's to apply the rules.

The o';brien one wasn't a free. He just went so low with his sidestep that he fell

That was a gamechanger. Momentum swung Kerry's was at that moment.  Derry were marginally he better team, just showed a bit of niaivity in front of the posts in the second half, with some excellent blocks and saves by Kerry also. But as someone said already, the big teams get the breaks. Would like to know what mcquillan said to mcguigan before that last kick?

Kerry the better team in the 2nd half, defended with grit & composure. Forwards were struggling but put the ball over the bar when it mattered most, had a few goal chances as well. Derry are like Armagh they don't have the required football intelligence at the end of games. That last kick by the Derry player was beyond belief,,,,

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2023, 06:31:19 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 16, 2023, 06:09:58 PM
Dubs will handle Ciarraí in the AIF -- the Muckers have shown the way.

Nil me ceaptha. Ciarrai are younger.

Nach éa, i ndáiríre?

Quote from: highorlow on July 16, 2023, 06:26:12 PM
You could say the Clifford shoulder which was a turnover ball for Kerry but was a mistaken free for Derry was a momentum changer in the first half. Derry should've taken that goal chance, instead of soccer shit he should've picked her up and buried it.

Bit of a difference, in all fairness. O'briens wasn't anywhere near a free whereas Clifford's shoulder was a meaty one and straddles the dangerous play area. Anyway, wides and poor shooting cost Derry. Kerry very, very lucky there.

Derry didn't have the squad and were out on their feet in last 10 minutes. Kerry outscored them then at crucial time and Kerry substitutes had a good impact especially Stephen O'Brien.

I think Derry definitely had more chances there than Monaghan yesterday, Monaghan were never in the lead.

Kerry's defensive play has improved massively the last few years

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 16, 2023, 06:43:16 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2023, 06:31:19 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 16, 2023, 06:09:58 PM
Dubs will handle Ciarraí in the AIF -- the Muckers have shown the way.

Nil me ceaptha. Ciarrai are younger.

Nach éa, i ndáiríre?

Is ea. Ambaiste!

Derry just ran out of steam and the shooting form that they had in the first half faded away as the legs got heavy. I Really thought they had Kerry shook in the first half especially Clifford. I think Kerry will come right in the final and win.

The Derry wans must be well on the way back to Lavey, Ballinadrapers etc. Thinking.

Quote from: Whishtup on July 16, 2023, 06:44:13 PM

Quote from: highorlow on July 16, 2023, 06:26:12 PM
You could say the Clifford shoulder which was a turnover ball for Kerry but was a mistaken free for Derry was a momentum changer in the first half. Derry should've taken that goal chance, instead of soccer shit he should've picked her up and buried it.

Bit of a difference, in all fairness. O'briens wasn't anywhere near a free whereas Clifford's shoulder was a meaty one and straddles the dangerous play area. Anyway, wides and poor shooting cost Derry. Kerry very, very lucky there.

Kerry deserved winners at the end. Kerry keeper & defence were calm & strong under pressure. The Ulster ref gave Derry a chance to draw the game in the end but Derry did not capitalize on that luck. Kerry kicked some sweet points to win it.

No decent subs cost them

Quote from: Piskin on July 16, 2023, 07:06:45 PM

Quote from: Whishtup on July 16, 2023, 06:44:13 PM

Quote from: highorlow on July 16, 2023, 06:26:12 PM
You could say the Clifford shoulder which was a turnover ball for Kerry but was a mistaken free for Derry was a momentum changer in the first half. Derry should've taken that goal chance, instead of soccer shit he should've picked her up and buried it.

Bit of a difference, in all fairness. O'briens wasn't anywhere near a free whereas Clifford's shoulder was a meaty one and straddles the dangerous play area. Anyway, wides and poor shooting cost Derry. Kerry very, very lucky there.

Kerry deserved winners at the end. Kerry keeper & defence were calm & strong under pressure. The Ulster ref gave Derry a chance to draw the game in the end but Derry did not capitalize on that luck. Kerry kicked some sweet points to win it.

Jesus you talk some keek!

I thought Derry had that one in the bag  but Kerry found that extra gear  just as Derry hit the wall. It's a tough one to take home.

Forgot who it was but young sub caught a pass from thr keeper more or less in front of goal.  Should have taken the mark but didn't

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 07:13:44 PM

Quote from: Piskin on July 16, 2023, 07:06:45 PM

Quote from: Whishtup on July 16, 2023, 06:44:13 PM

Quote from: highorlow on July 16, 2023, 06:26:12 PM
You could say the Clifford shoulder which was a turnover ball for Kerry but was a mistaken free for Derry was a momentum changer in the first half. Derry should've taken that goal chance, instead of soccer shit he should've picked her up and buried it.

Bit of a difference, in all fairness. O'briens wasn't anywhere near a free whereas Clifford's shoulder was a meaty one and straddles the dangerous play area. Anyway, wides and poor shooting cost Derry. Kerry very, very lucky there.

Kerry deserved winners at the end. Kerry keeper & defence were calm & strong under pressure. The Ulster ref gave Derry a chance to draw the game in the end but Derry did not capitalize on that luck. Kerry kicked some sweet points to win it.

Jesus you talk some keek!

No...just facts

Thoroughly enjoyed the game. Felt Derry bottled it with the couple of wides at crucial times. Felt 2 Kerry tackles should have been straight reds and lead to serious looking injuries, really enjoyed the battle between the full forwards and their men.. mc Faul brought sosmething they really didn't have last year and I feel Derry still need at least another player or 2 to be serious contenders so meenagh and Co will have a busy winter looking for another mc faul for next year...

Quote from: Kidder81 on July 16, 2023, 06:54:55 PM
Kerry's defensive play has improved massively the last few years

Last year their defensive improvement is what basically won them the AI last year.  Tyrone in the Quarter final was their best defensive performance this year. Today 1st half was not great defensively or 2nd half when Derry created a couple of goal chances and Kerry will have to improve on today's defensive performance in order to beat Dublin.

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2023, 06:57:45 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 16, 2023, 06:43:16 PM

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2023, 06:31:19 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 16, 2023, 06:09:58 PM
Dubs will handle Ciarraí in the AIF -- the Muckers have shown the way.

Nil me ceaptha. Ciarrai are younger.

Nach éa, i ndáiríre?

Is ea. Ambaiste!

Seafóid a chara!  ;)

Quote from: An Watcher on July 16, 2023, 07:21:07 PM
Forgot who it was but young sub caught a pass from thr keeper more or less in front of goal.  Should have taken the mark but didn't

Yes, it was a real arm in the air moment! He completely was caught for composure.

Great game, two teams who went at it, I really enjoyed it.
I saw Derry in the semi-final last year and thought they were awful, their manager has done a fantastic job, they were great to watch today but if they had more self-belief the result could have been different.
Derry will surely regret the chances they missed, they went for goal, when a simple tap over was the best option, but its easy for me in my living room.
Well played both teams and thank you a great afternoons entertainment.

One hell of a game.
Derry blew it with those wides when 1-14 to 1-12 up.
The team with the best 20 players won.
Dublin Joe's watch must have stopped in added time.

Nothing about the systematic targeting of Mc Guigan? Also soft yellow for Mc Caigue and Kerry full back gets a tick after fouling all day? Mc Quillan is a firms man. Looked bad for Mc Kinless at the end. Stonewall red for O Shea, not even booked.

Derry could not handle the pressure & intensity basically.

Quote from: thejuice on July 16, 2023, 06:59:15 PM
Derry just ran out of steam and the shooting form that they had in the first half faded away as the legs got heavy. I Really thought they had Kerry shook in the first half especially Clifford. I think Kerry will come right in the final and win.

In soccer stuff happens between 80 and 90 minutes
In GAA it's more likely between 60 and 70.
Derry need to go home and think again

Quote from: Kidder81 on July 16, 2023, 06:54:55 PM
Kerry's defensive play has improved massively the last few years

All credit to Paddy Tally

Quote from: seafoid on July 16, 2023, 07:37:00 PM

Quote from: thejuice on July 16, 2023, 06:59:15 PM
Derry just ran out of steam and the shooting form that they had in the first half faded away as the legs got heavy. I Really thought they had Kerry shook in the first half especially Clifford. I think Kerry will come right in the final and win.

In soccer stuff happens between 80 and 90 minutes
In GAA it's more likely between 60 and 70.
Derry need to go home and think again

It's more like between 60 and 75 mins.
Inexperienced teams need a big lead heading into that timeframe.

Quote from: passedit on July 16, 2023, 07:33:26 PM
Nothing about the systematic targeting of Mc Guigan? Also soft yellow for Mc Caigue and Kerry full back gets a tick after fouling all day? Mc Quillan is a firms man. Looked bad for Mc Kinless at the end. Stonewall red for O Shea, not even booked.

TSG might look at O'Shea incident tonight?🙄 if happened to Kerry boy and they lost would never hear the end of.

What was craic with Clifford letting mccloskey go in the first half? Kerry fairly poor throughout and still don. Derry have several players that rarely touch the ball which probably isn't enough to win an AI

QuoteForgot who it was but young sub caught a pass from thr keeper more or less in front of goal.  Should have taken the mark but didn't

Aye, thought that myself but was the pass inside the 45? I think it would've put Derry 3 up.

Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 16, 2023, 07:55:20 PM

Quote from: passedit on July 16, 2023, 07:33:26 PM
Nothing about the systematic targeting of Mc Guigan? Also soft yellow for Mc Caigue and Kerry full back gets a tick after fouling all day? Mc Quillan is a firms man. Looked bad for Mc Kinless at the end. Stonewall red for O Shea, not even booked.

TSG might look at O'Shea incident tonight?🙄 if happened to Kerry boy and they lost would never hear the end of.

Much like you lol

https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1680631410552340482

Quote from: passedit on July 16, 2023, 07:33:26 PM
Nothing about the systematic targeting of Mc Guigan? Also soft yellow for Mc Caigue and Kerry full back gets a tick after fouling all day? Mc Quillan is a firms man. Looked bad for Mc Kinless at the end. Stonewall red for O Shea, not even booked.

Mccaigue was more for persistent fouling I thought. Did O'Shea not just flick the ball away and then get an almighty boot?

Kerry were clearly targeting mcguigan but that will never be highlighted.

That was not like yesterday. McKinless fists one or two of those runs over the bar game over. Also again at a key moment the refs decision went with the big team. O'brien's was not a foul. That was a bad decision at a very key time that had a massive impact on that game.

All that being said Derry need a stronger squad. Mcgrogan being injured didn't help. (And tbh they didn't show it much on replay but i thought that was a dirty enough act too).

Hope dubs win the final...

Where do we rate Ulster teams after the last team exited today -

1. Derry
2. Monaghan
3. Armagh
4. Tyrone
5. Donegal
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Antrim
9. Fermanagh

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 16, 2023, 08:16:31 PM

Quote from: passedit on July 16, 2023, 07:33:26 PM
Nothing about the systematic targeting of Mc Guigan? Also soft yellow for Mc Caigue and Kerry full back gets a tick after fouling all day? Mc Quillan is a firms man. Looked bad for Mc Kinless at the end. Stonewall red for O Shea, not even booked.

Mccaigue was more for persistent fouling I thought. Did O'Shea not just flick the ball away and then get an almighty boot?

Kerry were clearly targeting mcguigan but that will never be highlighted.

That was not like yesterday. McKinless fists one or two of those runs over the bar game over. Also again at a key moment the refs decision went with the big team. O'brien's was not a foul. That was a bad decision at a very key time that had a massive impact on that game.

All that being said Derry need a stronger squad. Mcgrogan being injured didn't help. (And tbh they didn't show it much on replay but i thought that was a dirty enough act too).

Hope dubs win the final...

O'Shea's foul at the end stopped Mc Kinless hitting the quick free.

He knew what he was at.

As cynical as you'll see.

Quote from: Kidder81 on July 16, 2023, 08:17:15 PM
Where do we rate Ulster teams after the last team exited today -

1. Derry
2. Monaghan
3. Armagh
4. Tyrone
5. Donegal
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Antrim
9. Fermanagh

Tyrone bt Armagh, and Down bt Cavan

1. Derry
2. Monaghan
3. Tyrone
4. Armagh
5. Donegal
6. Down
7. Cavan
8. Antrim
9. Fermanagh

Quote from: marty34 on July 16, 2023, 08:26:57 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 16, 2023, 08:16:31 PM

Quote from: passedit on July 16, 2023, 07:33:26 PM
Nothing about the systematic targeting of Mc Guigan? Also soft yellow for Mc Caigue and Kerry full back gets a tick after fouling all day? Mc Quillan is a firms man. Looked bad for Mc Kinless at the end. Stonewall red for O Shea, not even booked.

Mccaigue was more for persistent fouling I thought. Did O'Shea not just flick the ball away and then get an almighty boot?

Kerry were clearly targeting mcguigan but that will never be highlighted.

That was not like yesterday. McKinless fists one or two of those runs over the bar game over. Also again at a key moment the refs decision went with the big team. O'brien's was not a foul. That was a bad decision at a very key time that had a massive impact on that game.

All that being said Derry need a stronger squad. Mcgrogan being injured didn't help. (And tbh they didn't show it much on replay but i thought that was a dirty enough act too).

Hope dubs win the final...

O'Shea's foul at the end stopped Mc Kinless hitting the quick free.

He knew what he was at.

As cynical as you'll see.

There was that but how in the name of god would that be a red?

Honestly don't think down any better than Antrim.

Quote from: Silkyskillssunshinee on July 16, 2023, 05:50:54 PM
Stephen O'Brien's impact off the bench a game changer. Does he start the next day or come on at HT again?

Yes, he won them that game.

Quote from: marty34 on July 16, 2023, 08:26:57 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 16, 2023, 08:16:31 PM

Quote from: passedit on July 16, 2023, 07:33:26 PM
Nothing about the systematic targeting of Mc Guigan? Also soft yellow for Mc Caigue and Kerry full back gets a tick after fouling all day? Mc Quillan is a firms man. Looked bad for Mc Kinless at the end. Stonewall red for O Shea, not even booked.

Mccaigue was more for persistent fouling I thought. Did O'Shea not just flick the ball away and then get an almighty boot?

Kerry were clearly targeting mcguigan but that will never be highlighted.

That was not like yesterday. McKinless fists one or two of those runs over the bar game over. Also again at a key moment the refs decision went with the big team. O'brien's was not a foul. That was a bad decision at a very key time that had a massive impact on that game.

All that being said Derry need a stronger squad. Mcgrogan being injured didn't help. (And tbh they didn't show it much on replay but i thought that was a dirty enough act too).

Hope dubs win the final...

O'Shea's foul at the end stopped Mc Kinless hitting the quick free.

He knew what he was at.

As cynical as you'll see.

Of course and you'd do exactly the same thing if playing!

As a player we were conceding stupid goals, just ones when the ball was in and around the house, as a corner back it's frustrating, but we decided to just stop the play by whatever means, those daft goals stopped and we won more games, is it cynical or smart?

Does it really matter, they all ended up with f*ck all at the end of the year. Ulster title doesn't hold the same prowess as it used to.

Quote from: inroundthesquare on July 16, 2023, 08:27:43 PM

Quote from: Kidder81 on July 16, 2023, 08:17:15 PM
Where do we rate Ulster teams after the last team exited today -

1. Derry
2. Monaghan
3. Armagh
4. Tyrone
5. Donegal
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Antrim
9. Fermanagh

Tyrone bt Armagh, and Down bt Cavan

Cavan got out of Div 3, Down didn't. Tyrone & Armagh toss of a coin

The targeting of McGuigan won't be highlighted on The Sunday Game if one of the Kerry media mafia is in the chair. It'll be danced around again but it was a blatant tactic, Jack O'Vonnor has always been obsessed with northern teams, just read his book.

Its also why he employed Tally. Against both Tyrone and Derry they were the aggressors and it worked.

Quote from: Kidder81 on July 16, 2023, 08:41:03 PM

Quote from: inroundthesquare on July 16, 2023, 08:27:43 PM

Quote from: Kidder81 on July 16, 2023, 08:17:15 PM
Where do we rate Ulster teams after the last team exited today -

1. Derry
2. Monaghan
3. Armagh
4. Tyrone
5. Donegal
6. Cavan
7. Down
8. Antrim
9. Fermanagh

Tyrone bt Armagh, and Down bt Cavan

Cavan got out of Div 3, Down didn't. Tyrone & Armagh toss of a coin

Down ended the season with momentum. The Cavan thread is quite depressed

Quote from: highorlow on July 16, 2023, 08:03:34 PM

QuoteForgot who it was but young sub caught a pass from thr keeper more or less in front of goal.  Should have taken the mark but didn't

Aye, thought that myself but was the pass inside the 45? I think it would've put Derry 3 up.

Fairly sure the keeper was inside the 45 so a mark was not possible

Quote from: SouthDublinBro on July 16, 2023, 08:30:51 PM

Quote from: Silkyskillssunshinee on July 16, 2023, 05:50:54 PM
Stephen O'Brien's impact off the bench a game changer. Does he start the next day or come on at HT again?

Yes, he won them that game.

He was really helped by the fact that Derry almost seemed to let him unmarked for long stretches.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is kept in reserve on the bench the next day though.

Just have a feeling Jack O'Connor will start Spillane again.

Quote from: twohands!!! on July 16, 2023, 08:55:17 PM

Quote from: SouthDublinBro on July 16, 2023, 08:30:51 PM

Quote from: Silkyskillssunshinee on July 16, 2023, 05:50:54 PM
Stephen O'Brien's impact off the bench a game changer. Does he start the next day or come on at HT again?

Yes, he won them that game.

He was really helped by the fact that Derry almost seemed to let him unmarked for long stretches.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is kept in reserve on the bench the next day though.

Just have a feeling Jack O'Connor will start Spillane again.

Will make little sense to start Spillane again when he was anonymous in all of the first half today.

Kerry were very lucky today.  Clear goal opportunity missed by derry and a few soft frees won it for them. Same as dublin yesterday.

Very unfortunate for derry. If they stop the booing at opposition frees craic i could support them.

Quote from: Piskin on July 16, 2023, 06:37:08 PMKerry the better team in the 2nd half, defended with grit & composure. Forwards were struggling but put the ball over the bar when it mattered most, had a few goal chances as well. Derry are like Armagh they don't have the required football intelligence at the end of games. That last kick by the Derry player was beyond belief,,,,

Cillian O'Connor kind of did the same at the end of the 2013 AI Final.

Quote from: clarshack on July 16, 2023, 05:40:21 PM
Bad from McKinless and he's hurt himself in the process.

+1

Good effort from Derry - they aren't far away.  Need to unearth a couple more forwards though because the likes of Toner and Loughlin aren't up the level required if you're looking to win All-Irelands imo.

Quote from: clarshack on July 16, 2023, 09:22:44 PM

Quote from: Piskin on July 16, 2023, 06:37:08 PMKerry the better team in the 2nd half, defended with grit & composure. Forwards were struggling but put the ball over the bar when it mattered most, had a few goal chances as well. Derry are like Armagh they don't have the required football intelligence at the end of games. That last kick by the Derry player was beyond belief,,,,

Cillian O'Connor kind of did the same at the end of the 2013 AI Final.

Yes, I'd say Cillian looks at that 21 year old version of himself and thinks WTF?

Rogers did some acrobatic display after O'Connor caught his knee ;D

Quote from: passedit on July 16, 2023, 07:33:26 PM
Nothing about the systematic targeting of Mc Guigan? Also soft yellow for Mc Caigue and Kerry full back gets a tick after fouling all day? Mc Quillan is a firms man. Looked bad for Mc Kinless at the end. Stonewall red for O Shea, not even booked.

Couldn't agree more.
Mcgrogan hit with a late dangerous sliding tackle as he scored early and had to go off injured immediately weakening our bench for the later stages.
Mcguigan was half killed.
How that charge by the keeper wasn't at least a free I do not know.
Mckinless block while trying to hit a quick free at the end was so dangerous and should have been a red.
Mcquillan gave frees against derry which he didn't give against kerry the while game.
All that said, we should still have won. Some poor decision making in last 10.
Better team lost today and I think kerry will account for Dublin easily enough.

Gutted as we definitely left it behind today.

Mckinless, Rogers, mcloskey, mcguigan, mcfaul, mcevoy I thought were immense. Better than anything kerry had with the exception of Clifford who is at another level.

Very proud of achievements this year and hopefully with another minor all Ireland this year the future is bright.

Looking at the replay of the Kerry keeper clattering into McGuigan and he knew exactly what he was doing. Another faux pas by McQuillan.

A company man is a good description of him, I'd always label him as the equaliser. Constantly favouring the team that is behind or trying to balance up some of his previous errors in the game. Derry just happened to fall foul of it today.

Quote from: yellowcard on July 16, 2023, 10:37:31 PM
Looking at the replay of the Kerry keeper clattering into McGuigan and he knew exactly what he was doing. Another faux pas by McQuillan.
...

Yep, as cynical a piece of taking a player out as you'll see -- the Ciarraí buachaillí know well what they're at.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 08:31:25 PM

Quote from: marty34 on July 16, 2023, 08:26:57 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 16, 2023, 08:16:31 PM

Quote from: passedit on July 16, 2023, 07:33:26 PM
Nothing about the systematic targeting of Mc Guigan? Also soft yellow for Mc Caigue and Kerry full back gets a tick after fouling all day? Mc Quillan is a firms man. Looked bad for Mc Kinless at the end. Stonewall red for O Shea, not even booked.

Mccaigue was more for persistent fouling I thought. Did O'Shea not just flick the ball away and then get an almighty boot?

Kerry were clearly targeting mcguigan but that will never be highlighted.

That was not like yesterday. McKinless fists one or two of those runs over the bar game over. Also again at a key moment the refs decision went with the big team. O'brien's was not a foul. That was a bad decision at a very key time that had a massive impact on that game.

All that being said Derry need a stronger squad. Mcgrogan being injured didn't help. (And tbh they didn't show it much on replay but i thought that was a dirty enough act too).

Hope dubs win the final...

O'Shea's foul at the end stopped Mc Kinless hitting the quick free.

He knew what he was at.

As cynical as you'll see.

Of course and you'd do exactly the same thing if playing!

As a player we were conceding stupid goals, just ones when the ball was in and around the house, as a corner back it's frustrating, but we decided to just stop the play by whatever means, those daft goals stopped and we won more games, is it cynical or smart?

I didn't say it was a red card.

I'm just saying Kerry are cynical, when the media etc. make them out as whiter than white.

Good game engineered by two Tyrone coaches. A few missed from Derry about 55-65mins cost them.

If an Ulster team put the hits on Clifford that Kerry put on McGuigan we'd never heard the end of it. Derry need to learn that you can't soft with those Kerry animals.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:50:27 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Is a soft free a free or not?

Depends on how well known the forward or county is - McQuillan wasn't too bad at all, but I don't think Derry got those 'soft frees' as quickly.

Quote from: rrhf on July 16, 2023, 07:21:52 PM
Thoroughly enjoyed the game. Felt Derry bottled it with the couple of wides at crucial times. Felt 2 Kerry tackles should have been straight reds and lead to serious looking injuries, really enjoyed the battle between the full forwards and their men.. mc Faul brought sosmething they really didn't have last year and I feel Derry still need at least another player or 2 to be serious contenders so meenagh and Co will have a busy winter looking for another mc faul for next year...

They never showed a replay of the first Derry injury after he scored a point. Was it a late hit?

Quote from: tyssam5 on July 16, 2023, 10:58:38 PM

Quote from: rrhf on July 16, 2023, 07:21:52 PM
Thoroughly enjoyed the game. Felt Derry bottled it with the couple of wides at crucial times. Felt 2 Kerry tackles should have been straight reds and lead to serious looking injuries, really enjoyed the battle between the full forwards and their men.. mc Faul brought sosmething they really didn't have last year and I feel Derry still need at least another player or 2 to be serious contenders so meenagh and Co will have a busy winter looking for another mc faul for next year...

They never showed a replay of the first Derry injury after he scored a point. Was it a late hit?

I thought he was taken out but would need to see it again.

With everything that happened it's easy to forget but McGrogan injury was a massive loss for Derry as well

Rodgers was brilliant, love watching him play. Glass was poor I thought and when Kerry pushed up on the kickouts in the last 10 they won them. Derry had chances but couldn't take them and just are not good enough to win Sam

Quote from: Mario on July 16, 2023, 11:06:19 PM
With everything that happened it's easy to forget but McGrogan injury was a massive loss for Derry as well

Easy to forget because the panel never even mentioned it.

Quote from: tyssam5 on July 16, 2023, 11:11:09 PM

Quote from: Mario on July 16, 2023, 11:06:19 PM
With everything that happened it's easy to forget but McGrogan injury was a massive loss for Derry as well

Easy to forget because the panel never even mentioned it.

It was a mysterious injury.
Forgotten in the blink of an eye.
And TSG analysts didn't notice at all.
Padraic's replacement immediately coughed up 2 scores.

But no commentator anywhere has even noticed.

Quote from: NotedObserver on July 16, 2023, 08:00:35 PM
What was craic with Clifford letting mccloskey go in the first half? Kerry fairly poor throughout and still don. Derry have several players that rarely touch the ball which probably isn't enough to win an AI

Bang on.. including some of their subs. As they break away from Gallagher's system things are improving... might be a better team next year

Quote from: tbrick18 on July 16, 2023, 10:26:19 PM

Quote from: passedit on July 16, 2023, 07:33:26 PM
Nothing about the systematic targeting of Mc Guigan? Also soft yellow for Mc Caigue and Kerry full back gets a tick after fouling all day? Mc Quillan is a firms man. Looked bad for Mc Kinless at the end. Stonewall red for O Shea, not even booked.

Couldn't agree more.
Mcgrogan hit with a late dangerous sliding tackle as he scored early and had to go off injured immediately weakening our bench for the later stages.
Mcguigan was half killed.
How that charge by the keeper wasn't at least a free I do not know.
Mckinless block while trying to hit a quick free at the end was so dangerous and should have been a red.
Mcquillan gave frees against derry which he didn't give against kerry the while game.
All that said, we should still have won. Some poor decision making in last 10.
Better team lost today and I think kerry will account for Dublin easily enough.

Gutted as we definitely left it behind today.

Mckinless, Rogers, mcloskey, mcguigan, mcfaul, mcevoy I thought were immense. Better than anything kerry had with the exception of Clifford who is at another level.

Very proud of achievements this year and hopefully with another minor all Ireland this year the future is bright.

Agree with all that, except the bolded!

Kerry's defence wouldn't inspire confidence when you run directly down the middle, as Derry showed today.   I'd be confident of a goal or two if Eoin Murch or Jack Mc can exploit those spaces.   

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 16, 2023, 11:18:12 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 16, 2023, 10:40:30 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on July 16, 2023, 10:37:31 PM
Looking at the replay of the Kerry keeper clattering into McGuigan and he knew exactly what he was doing. Another faux pas by McQuillan.
...

Yep, as cynical a piece of taking a player out as you'll see -- the Ciarraí buachaillí know well what they're at.

What would you do him for?
Not a thing wrong with it for me. He can't stop gravity bringing him back to the ground.

Note: he jumped to collect the ball, not into the challenge.

He jumped and then turned mid air to get his hip into McGuigans face when he saw McGuigan coming... it was 100% a free the other way and a yellow card!

Absolutely.   

I wonder if he had that decision on his mind when, a few minutes later,  he gave Clifford a yellow for a perfectly executed shoulder.

Dirtiest bunch of pricks we played in years, and we played everybody past 4yrs.Understand why Tyrone detest them so much. Hope Dublin beat them out of the field.

Strange refereeing performance. Mc league early yellow was a v important call as well.

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 16, 2023, 11:58:05 PM
Dirtiest bunch of pricks we played in years, and we played everybody past 4yrs.Understand why Tyrone detest them so much. Hope Dublin beat them out of the field.

Listen ye werent behind us in our battles, so fight away yer selves but understand it takes so much more in Cp than bringing a good enthusiastic team. Welcome to success

What the difference between the Gary Mohan high catch leasing into the Dublin man and the Kerry Keeper on McGuigan

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 17, 2023, 12:08:59 AM
What the difference between the Gary Mohan high catch leasing into the Dublin man and the Kerry Keeper on McGuigan

Not easy a semi final defeat. Ye need 2 or 3 more players to win Sam. But ye can.. Derry are we're Tyrone were in 96, eventually you will take it on yourselves to stop blaming and then Sam comes

Quote from: Wolfetones on July 16, 2023, 06:07:57 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 06:03:29 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:54:43 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:50:27 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Is a soft free a free or not?

I used the wrong  term.  I don't  think either were free kicks

Push in back when try to dip the ball is a free, when did that change?

What was the foul on the other one? Think it was O'Brien who was "fouled"

Did you have a chance to look at this again Milltown? You're never too short of an opinion.

We missing 2 corner forwards, have been for awhile, everybody in Derry knows that, they should played Shea Downey as corner forward and dropped him bck just in front of Clifford. That was Derry biggest mistake today. Not having strong bench a big downfall too, still a fair few players in Derry need be on the panel, with a proper panel of 40, not the bare bones. Goalkeeper hadn't his finest hour either. Mcfaul, McKinless, McKeigue all had to have words with him. He just  not good enough to play deep out the field like Ethan Rafferty

Rather predictably The Sunday Game skirted over the off the ball abuse McGuigan received in that match today by comparing it to the abuse Clifford received which I never actually seen.

It was one of the most blatant pieces of targeting a player seen all season and while I didn't expect Tomas O'Se to say too much he actually said more than Whelan. As for Cora Staunton, Im not sure what she adds but she won't give an opinion on anything yet gets wheeled out week after week.

Quote from: yellowcard on July 17, 2023, 12:22:25 AM
Rather predictably The Sunday Game skirted over the off the ball abuse McGuigan received in that match today by comparing it to the abuse Clifford received which I never actually seen.

It was one of the most blatant pieces of targeting a player seen all season and while I didn't expect Tomas O'Se to say too much he actually said more than Whelan. As for Cora Staunton, Im not sure what she adds but she won't give an opinion on anything yet gets wheeled out week after week.

Staunton just produces a word salad of garbage, should not be there .
And they never even hinted at the injury to mc Grogan, nor tge impact that had on the Derry game.
It was avery poor analysis.

Who was it came in on the late sliding tackle that injured him anyway? They wont show any footage of it.

Quote from: rrhf on July 17, 2023, 12:13:14 AM

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 17, 2023, 12:08:59 AM
What the difference between the Gary Mohan high catch leasing into the Dublin man and the Kerry Keeper on McGuigan

Not easy a semi final defeat. Ye need 2 or 3 more players to win Sam. But ye can.. Derry are we're Tyrone were in 96, eventually you will take it on yourselves to stop blaming and then Sam comes

Maybe.  I certainly wouldn't begrudge Derry a Sam, but then again, Mayo have been knocking on the door for years now with no Sam. 

Sometimes your best team in years just runs into a better team.

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 17, 2023, 12:42:35 AM

Quote from: yellowcard on July 17, 2023, 12:22:25 AM
Rather predictably The Sunday Game skirted over the off the ball abuse McGuigan received in that match today by comparing it to the abuse Clifford received which I never actually seen.

It was one of the most blatant pieces of targeting a player seen all season and while I didn't expect Tomas O'Se to say too much he actually said more than Whelan. As for Cora Staunton, Im not sure what she adds but she won't give an opinion on anything yet gets wheeled out week after week.

Staunton just produces a word salad of garbage, should not be there .
And they never even hinted at the injury to mc Grogan, nor tge impact that had on the Derry game.
It was avery poor analysis.

Who was it came in on the late sliding tackle that injured him anyway? They wont show any footage of it.

A word salad is right. No harm but she can't string two sentences together. There must be other woman out there who can at least give a proper insight to a game. She is well suited to RTE.

Anyway back the the game itself. Disappointing to come out on the wrong side of it. We 100% left that one behind today but you can't give up guilt edge chances against a team like Kerry.

Brendan Rogers is some footballer......that is all!!

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 16, 2023, 11:58:05 PM
Dirtiest bunch of pricks we played in years, and we played everybody past 4yrs.Understand why Tyrone detest them so much. Hope Dublin beat them out of the field.

Plenty pints of bitter & huge feed of chips are not good for you

Derry fluffed it in the end. Kerry haven't played Derry in recent years and it showed in the first half as were caught out a bit. Still played poor enuf in second but was enuf to win. Derry wides lost them that game and this could be down to being out of their feet

Quote from: NotedObserver on July 17, 2023, 03:48:59 AM
Derry fluffed it in the end. Kerry haven't played Derry in recent years and it showed in the first half as were caught out a bit. Still played poor enuf in second but was enuf to win. Derry wides lost them that game and this could be down to being out of their feet

They didn't hit many wides in the final 10 min most of them came in the third quarter and missing the two goal chances were nothing to do with being out on their feet. Derry haven't played Kerry before either but it will be clear to the players the next day that Clifford aside they are every bit as good and probably better footballers than their Kerry counterparts.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:50:27 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Is a soft free a free or not?

That appears to depend , on which team benefits, or which end of the ground its at, or the run of play.
So often what is a free in one instance is not a free in a exactly similar instance a few seconds later, and that is by the same referee, in the same game.
Do you want to talk about comparing different refs and games?
GAA refereeing is dreadful, because there are no definitive rules, and as far as i can see no formal, universal training and coaching.  Its long past time that the GAA set up a coaching academy for referees and started to reward them properly for their contribution and talent.

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 17, 2023, 06:50:54 AM

Quote from: screenexile on July 16, 2023, 11:55:16 PM

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 16, 2023, 11:18:12 PM

Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on July 16, 2023, 10:40:30 PM

Quote from: yellowcard on July 16, 2023, 10:37:31 PM
Looking at the replay of the Kerry keeper clattering into McGuigan and he knew exactly what he was doing. Another faux pas by McQuillan.
...

Yep, as cynical a piece of taking a player out as you'll see -- the Ciarraí buachaillí know well what they're at.

What would you do him for?
Not a thing wrong with it for me. He can't stop gravity bringing him back to the ground.

Note: he jumped to collect the ball, not into the challenge.

He jumped and then turned mid air to get his hip into McGuigans face when he saw McGuigan coming... it was 100% a free the other way and a yellow card!

He turned mid air to protect himself in the collision.
Is it the mid air turn that makes it a foul? Had he clattered McGuigan's face without turning it would be ok?
It's not a free.

Very unorthodox way of protecting himself.

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 17, 2023, 07:35:58 AM
No it is not. Turning so that your side takes the impact is completely natural.

It's probably a red in rugby. One free that really annoyed me was McEvoy dispossessing Geaney on the 14 out under Hogan then Geaney seemed to go down very easy to buy a free.

Dublin will win the final by 4-5 points comfortably.

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 17, 2023, 06:36:32 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:50:27 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Is a soft free a free or not?

That appears to depend , on which team benefits, or which end of the ground its at, or the run of play.
So often what is a free in one instance is not a free in a exactly similar instance a few seconds later, and that is by the same referee, in the same game.
Do you want to talk about comparing different refs and games?
GAA refereeing is dreadful, because there are no definitive rules, and as far as i can see no formal, universal training and coaching.  Its long past time that the GAA set up a coaching academy for referees and started to reward them properly for their contribution and talent.

The losing team or supporters generally complain about the ref and it's no different here it seems.

Tell me what you know actually goes into the set up of inter county referees.

The rules are the same for both teams, the ref has absolutely no skin in the game, so I'm struggling to work out why he'd be more generous to one over another.

It's lazy to blame the ref rather than look at individual or collective performances of your team.

The foul where the Kerry player was on the sideline, over the ball, and pushed in the back was a foul, soft but a lazy foul, he was going nowhere and surrounded by two Derry players, a clever player buys that free, the Derry player was sucked in.

I'm not here to defend the referee, when they make a mistake I'll call it too, in the Down game I wasn't overly impressed with his performance, not down to missing frees just poor flow to the game.

Not sure Clifford's was a yellow, McKaigues was for persistent fouling not just tugging a jersey, the desperate attempts by Kerry at the end resulted in the correct calls, and he added on plenty of time to reflect Kerry's attempts to slow down the game, but not a mention of that.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2023, 07:46:14 AM

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 17, 2023, 06:36:32 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:50:27 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Is a soft free a free or not?

That appears to depend , on which team benefits, or which end of the ground its at, or the run of play.
So often what is a free in one instance is not a free in a exactly similar instance a few seconds later, and that is by the same referee, in the same game.
Do you want to talk about comparing different refs and games?
GAA refereeing is dreadful, because there are no definitive rules, and as far as i can see no formal, universal training and coaching.  Its long past time that the GAA set up a coaching academy for referees and started to reward them properly for their contribution and talent.

The losing team or supporters generally complain about the ref and it's no different here it seems.

Tell me what you know actually goes into the set up of inter county referees.

The rules are the same for both teams, the ref has absolutely no skin in the game, so I'm struggling to work out why he'd be more generous to one over another.

It's lazy to blame the ref rather than look at individual or collective performances of your team.

The foul where the Kerry player was on the sideline, over the ball, and pushed in the back was a foul, soft but a lazy foul, he was going nowhere and surrounded by two Derry players, a clever player buys that free, the Derry player was sucked in.

I'm not here to defend the referee, when they make a mistake I'll call it too, in the Down game I wasn't overly impressed with his performance, not down to missing frees just poor flow to the game.

Not sure Clifford's was a yellow, McKaigues was for persistent fouling not just tugging a jersey, the desperate attempts by Kerry at the end resulted in the correct calls, and he added on plenty of time to reflect Kerry's attempts to slow down the game, but not a mention of that.

I didn't blame the referee.
And you didn't make any attempt to address the points I made

Even Tomas o'se said it Mr. The O'Brien free was critical in that game and it wasn't a free.

Kerry scored a point when it should have been a free out for the Ryan challenge on McGuigan and if McQuillan doesn't give a free for the phantom foul on O'Brien then it's a drawn game.
Derry can feel rightly aggrieved.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2023, 07:46:14 AM

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 17, 2023, 06:36:32 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:50:27 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Is a soft free a free or not?

That appears to depend , on which team benefits, or which end of the ground its at, or the run of play.
So often what is a free in one instance is not a free in a exactly similar instance a few seconds later, and that is by the same referee, in the same game.
Do you want to talk about comparing different refs and games?
GAA refereeing is dreadful, because there are no definitive rules, and as far as i can see no formal, universal training and coaching.  Its long past time that the GAA set up a coaching academy for referees and started to reward them properly for their contribution and talent.

The losing team or supporters generally complain about the ref and it's no different here it seems.

Tell me what you know actually goes into the set up of inter county referees.

The rules are the same for both teams, the ref has absolutely no skin in the game, so I'm struggling to work out why he'd be more generous to one over another.

It's lazy to blame the ref rather than look at individual or collective performances of your team.

The foul where the Kerry player was on the sideline, over the ball, and pushed in the back was a foul, soft but a lazy foul, he was going nowhere and surrounded by two Derry players, a clever player buys that free, the Derry player was sucked in.

I'm not here to defend the referee, when they make a mistake I'll call it too, in the Down game I wasn't overly impressed with his performance, not down to missing frees just poor flow to the game.

Not sure Clifford's was a yellow, McKaigues was for persistent fouling not just tugging a jersey, the desperate attempts by Kerry at the end resulted in the correct calls, and he added on plenty of time to reflect Kerry's attempts to slow down the game, but not a mention of that.

Mill town Geaney dived for the free it wasn't a free

Although what ultimately lost the game was the poor wides Derry kicked in the second half especially the two mid way through the half hogan side which were at a critical time in the match

Quote from: clarshack on July 17, 2023, 08:28:46 AM
Kerry scored a point when it should have been a free out for the Ryan challenge on McGuigan and if McQuillan doesn't give a free for the phantom foul on O'Brien then it's a drawn game.
Derry can feel rightly aggrieved.

Had that free been given against Ryan it would actually have been a free in.

Quote from: clarshack on July 17, 2023, 08:28:46 AM
Kerry scored a point when it should have been a free out for the Ryan challenge on McGuigan and if McQuillan doesn't give a free for the phantom foul on O'Brien then it's a drawn game.
Derry can feel rightly aggrieved.

There are soft frees for both sides throughout the game.

Yes, the free given to O'Brien came at a crucial time. There was contact, so I can understand the decision, however, for me the contact was not sufficient to warrant a free.

But the key is that Derry were still 1 point up after that. But, after playing brilliantly for most of the game, Derry were nothing short of poor for the remainder. Kerry were there for the taking, but they didn't quite manage it. Decision making inside the opposition 45 was probably the difference between the teams. Though hats off to both teams for some of the score taking during the game.

Hopefully after yesterday Derry will now get more credit and respect for their brilliantly creative attacking play. We created at least 5 or 6 goal opportunities in that game although the majority were half chances. I'd have to give credit to Kerry for some tremendous last gasp and brave defending. It's so heartbreaking to lose especially when we were the better team for over 60 minutes. All credit to Kerry though for hanging in there and taking advantage of their spell of dominance.

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 17, 2023, 07:56:35 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2023, 07:46:14 AM

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 17, 2023, 06:36:32 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 05:50:27 PM

Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 05:48:37 PM

Quote from: Aaron Boone on July 16, 2023, 05:30:31 PM
Joe has been given his orders.

Mc quillan is the  most infuriating referee  I've ever seen .  I'm all for having respect for official s , but by Christ  he makes it so hard  for people to do that.  Those two very soft frees  effectively won Kerry the game . I ain't from Derry but I am absolutely raging . I dunno how Derry folk are feeling

Is a soft free a free or not?

That appears to depend , on which team benefits, or which end of the ground its at, or the run of play.
So often what is a free in one instance is not a free in a exactly similar instance a few seconds later, and that is by the same referee, in the same game.
Do you want to talk about comparing different refs and games?
GAA refereeing is dreadful, because there are no definitive rules, and as far as i can see no formal, universal training and coaching.  Its long past time that the GAA set up a coaching academy for referees and started to reward them properly for their contribution and talent.

The losing team or supporters generally complain about the ref and it's no different here it seems.

Tell me what you know actually goes into the set up of inter county referees.

The rules are the same for both teams, the ref has absolutely no skin in the game, so I'm struggling to work out why he'd be more generous to one over another.

It's lazy to blame the ref rather than look at individual or collective performances of your team.

The foul where the Kerry player was on the sideline, over the ball, and pushed in the back was a foul, soft but a lazy foul, he was going nowhere and surrounded by two Derry players, a clever player buys that free, the Derry player was sucked in.

I'm not here to defend the referee, when they make a mistake I'll call it too, in the Down game I wasn't overly impressed with his performance, not down to missing frees just poor flow to the game.

Not sure Clifford's was a yellow, McKaigues was for persistent fouling not just tugging a jersey, the desperate attempts by Kerry at the end resulted in the correct calls, and he added on plenty of time to reflect Kerry's attempts to slow down the game, but not a mention of that.

I didn't blame the referee.
And you didn't make any attempt to address the points I made

You didn't answer mine! Was it a free or not?

In all sports referees view things differently, there are plenty of discussions on multiple threads about different sports that they are discussing what was a foul and what wasn't, these other sports are professional sports so even in that area of officiating people will always question it.

The rules are the same for both teams, saying GAA referees are dreadful is just lazy and saying that the rules aren't definitive, you'd need to explain that a bit more to for me to address it

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2023, 08:02:30 AM
Even Tomas o'se said it Mr. The O'Brien free was critical in that game and it wasn't a free.

I basically said he bought the free, its the easiest free to give and the daftest one to give away, just cause O'se said it means nothing, he wasn't refereeing it and a lot of the ex players on multiple occasions don't even know the rules ffs!

Quote from: lenny on July 17, 2023, 08:44:36 AM
Hopefully after yesterday Derry will now get more credit and respect for their brilliantly creative attacking play. We created at least 5 or 6 goal opportunities in that game although the majority were half chances. I'd have to give credit to Kerry for some tremendous last gasp and brave defending. It's so heartbreaking to lose especially when we were the better team for over 60 minutes. All credit to Kerry though for hanging in there and taking advantage of their spell of dominance.

Something I do wonder.... would they have played like that under Gallagher?

I think Meenagh deserves huge credit for how they did yesterday and should get the job full time now.

As a neutral, the standard of the referee in the two semi finals was day and night. Hurson top class, Mcquillan on the other hand not so much

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2023, 08:54:41 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2023, 08:02:30 AM
Even Tomas o'se said it Mr. The O'Brien free was critical in that game and it wasn't a free.

I basically said he bought the free, its the easiest free to give and the daftest one to give away, just cause O'se said it means nothing, he wasn't refereeing it and a lot of the ex players on multiple occasions don't even know the rules ffs!

It kind of does mean something. If even a Kerry man is saying that then it's not just sour grapes from a losing team. Did Deegan , who would know the rules, not say it wasn't a free too?

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2023, 09:02:59 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2023, 08:54:41 AM

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2023, 08:02:30 AM
Even Tomas o'se said it Mr. The O'Brien free was critical in that game and it wasn't a free.

I basically said he bought the free, its the easiest free to give and the daftest one to give away, just cause O'se said it means nothing, he wasn't refereeing it and a lot of the ex players on multiple occasions don't even know the rules ffs!

It kind of does mean something. If even a Kerry man is saying that then it's not just sour grapes from a losing team. Did Deegan , who would know the rules, not say it wasn't a free too?

What were you told as a kid playing, get over the ball and dip it, you'll win your free, if I didn't give them in a game I'd be hounded out the gate.

Someone will throw it up and let me have another look at it, remember I said I only seen it half jar'd after being at a friends for barbeque  ;D

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 17, 2023, 07:35:58 AM
No it is not. Turning so that your side takes the impact is completely natural.

I thought you couldn't break a tackle with both feet of the air, you can't in hurling anyway. Very cynical challenge and could have hurt the lad.

Ai when you're picking the ball up - he wasn't picking the ball up...

Quote from: north_antrim_hound on July 17, 2023, 09:13:09 AM

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 17, 2023, 07:35:58 AM
No it is not. Turning so that your side takes the impact is completely natural.

I thought you couldn't break a tackle with both feet of the air, you can't in hurling anyway. Very cynical challenge and could have hurt the lad.

It was one of the more dangerous challenges of the entire match. He eyed up McGuigan beforehand and made sure he left something on him. When you consider some of the innocuous decisions that pass as fouls or even yellow cards in the modern game, the punishment (none) did not fit the crime. Would it have taken a concussion or a head injury for some people to claim that it was an actual foul, the player was not protected by the referee in that instance.   

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2023, 09:13:49 AM
Ai when you're picking the ball up - he wasn't picking the ball up...

I'll need to see it again, my hazy recollection was he was over the ball and in an attempt to lift it and was 'touched' in the back and ref blew for push in back, thought it was soft at the time and that the player bought it, can't remember him diving.

I've waved such things on at times when I feel the player goes to ground first before playing the ball but if a player is attempting the lift the ball or over the ball and there is contact in the back, its a free

Quote from: yellowcard on July 17, 2023, 09:20:17 AM

Quote from: north_antrim_hound on July 17, 2023, 09:13:09 AM

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 17, 2023, 07:35:58 AM
No it is not. Turning so that your side takes the impact is completely natural.

I thought you couldn't break a tackle with both feet of the air, you can't in hurling anyway. Very cynical challenge and could have hurt the lad.

It was one of the more dangerous challenges of the entire match. He eyed up McGuigan beforehand and made sure he left something on him. When you consider some of the innocuous decisions that pass as fouls or even yellow cards in the modern game, the punishment (none) did not fit the crime. Would it have taken a concussion or a head injury for some people to claim that it was an actual foul, the player was not protected by the referee in that instance.   

I actually watched this one and it could have been a free when I watched it multiple times, watching it live I didn't give it a second thought.

Regardless of the debate whether Ryans challenge was a foul, in the interest of protecting the player, was mc Quillan  obligated to stop play for a potential head injury?

Derry gave their best performance of the year yesterday, they were superb for most of the game ... until they got mugged on the home straight.  As a neutral, I feel that the ref. unduly swayed the game in Kerry's favour ... some very soft frees one direction, yet blatant transgression by the Kerry goalkeeper went unnoticed ... McQuillan might as well have stuck the ball over the bar himself during that play.

Kerry are Kerry, unreal athletes and play the game in a way that is great to watch.  Clifford once again off the scale.

Back to the ref, time keeping needs to be really looked at .... too many examples of referees making up time for 'one last play' in an effort to bring a team back into it, maybe in an effort to make up for incorrect decisions earlier in the game ... it shouldn't be in the refs remit to decide the time, let's follow the ladies and take it out of the refs. hands.

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2023, 09:25:38 AM

Quote from: yellowcard on July 17, 2023, 09:20:17 AM

Quote from: north_antrim_hound on July 17, 2023, 09:13:09 AM

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 17, 2023, 07:35:58 AM
No it is not. Turning so that your side takes the impact is completely natural.

I thought you couldn't break a tackle with both feet of the air, you can't in hurling anyway. Very cynical challenge and could have hurt the lad.

It was one of the more dangerous challenges of the entire match. He eyed up McGuigan beforehand and made sure he left something on him. When you consider some of the innocuous decisions that pass as fouls or even yellow cards in the modern game, the punishment (none) did not fit the crime. Would it have taken a concussion or a head injury for some people to claim that it was an actual foul, the player was not protected by the referee in that instance.   

I actually watched this one and it could have been a free when I watched it multiple times, watching it live I didn't give it a second thought.

I was watching live and couldn't believe how it wasn't a free and yellow at least. It sets a president that it's ok to ride the tackle off the ground.

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/dublin-ireland-16-july-2023-kerry-goalkeeper-shane-ryan-news-photo/1535749975

Again, I go bck and ask what the difference there was to Mohan catch and free out, and what the Kerry Keeper did?

Quote from: Derryman forever on July 17, 2023, 09:38:16 AM
Regardless of the debate whether Ryans challenge was a foul, in the interest of protecting the player, was mc Quillan  obligated to stop play for a potential head injury?

That is a very valid point.

Quote from: north_antrim_hound on July 17, 2023, 09:40:39 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2023, 09:25:38 AM

Quote from: yellowcard on July 17, 2023, 09:20:17 AM

Quote from: north_antrim_hound on July 17, 2023, 09:13:09 AM

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 17, 2023, 07:35:58 AM
No it is not. Turning so that your side takes the impact is completely natural.

I thought you couldn't break a tackle with both feet of the air, you can't in hurling anyway. Very cynical challenge and could have hurt the lad.

It was one of the more dangerous challenges of the entire match. He eyed up McGuigan beforehand and made sure he left something on him. When you consider some of the innocuous decisions that pass as fouls or even yellow cards in the modern game, the punishment (none) did not fit the crime. Would it have taken a concussion or a head injury for some people to claim that it was an actual foul, the player was not protected by the referee in that instance.   

I actually watched this one and it could have been a free when I watched it multiple times, watching it live I didn't give it a second thought.

I was watching live and couldn't believe how it wasn't a free and yellow at least. It sets a president that it's ok to ride the tackle off the ground.

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/dublin-ireland-16-july-2023-kerry-goalkeeper-shane-ryan-news-photo/1535749975

I think the keeper should have got red for that challenge. If that was the other way around and Derry keeper did that on Clifford what do yous think would have happened?

Quote from: clarshack on July 17, 2023, 09:53:25 AM

Quote from: north_antrim_hound on July 17, 2023, 09:40:39 AM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 17, 2023, 09:25:38 AM

Quote from: yellowcard on July 17, 2023, 09:20:17 AM

Quote from: north_antrim_hound on July 17, 2023, 09:13:09 AM

Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 17, 2023, 07:35:58 AM
No it is not. Turning so that your side takes the impact is completely natural.

I thought you couldn't break a tackle with both feet of the air, you can't in hurling anyway. Very cynical challenge and could have hurt the lad.

It was one of the more dangerous challenges of the entire match. He eyed up McGuigan beforehand and made sure he left something on him. When you consider some of the innocuous decisions that pass as fouls or even yellow cards in the modern game, the punishment (none) did not fit the crime. Would it have taken a concussion or a head injury for some people to claim that it was an actual foul, the player was not protected by the referee in that instance.   

I actually watched this one and it could have been a free when I watched it multiple times, watching it live I didn't give it a second thought.

I was watching live and couldn't believe how it wasn't a free and yellow at least. It sets a president that it's ok to ride the tackle off the ground.

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/dublin-ireland-16-july-2023-kerry-goalkeeper-shane-ryan-news-photo/1535749975

I think the keeper should have got red for that challenge. If that was the other way around and Derry keeper did that on Clifford what do yous think would have happened?

Are you suggesting an anti-northern bias in Joe McQuillan's refereeing of games?  :)

Lad not called Dublin Joe for nothing, might need renamed Kerry Joe. If he gets the final he not know what to do.

Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2023, 08:55:27 AM

Quote from: lenny on July 17, 2023, 08:44:36 AM
Hopefully after yesterday Derry will now get more credit and respect for their brilliantly creative attacking play. We created at least 5 or 6 goal opportunities in that game although the majority were half chances. I'd have to give credit to Kerry for some tremendous last gasp and brave defending. It's so heartbreaking to lose especially when we were the better team for over 60 minutes. All credit to Kerry though for hanging in there and taking advantage of their spell of dominance.

Meenagh was very impressive. His planning was meticulous.

Something I do wonder.... would they have played like that under Gallagher?

I think Meenagh deserves huge credit for how they did yesterday and should get the job full time now.