The Many Faces of US Politics...

Started by Tyrones own, March 20, 2009, 09:29:14 PM

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heganboy

Strange that given the furore over costs of private flights, no one in the administration thought about the cost of Pence's publicity stunt to the public purse.

Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity

omaghjoe

I have to say I do a fair bit of eye rolling and muttering under my breath at the fawning over the military in America and actually a wee bit of anger at the way I feel Im expected to join in and it all done in front of kids as well. And what the feck is this freedom anyway? I feel far freer in Ireland to be honest

However.... there is no doubt that everyone who lives in America benefits greatly from the military and that extends to varying degrees to people living in countries that have close links to America.

America's global position no doubt helps its sovereign defence but without a military a country with the resources that America has would be an immediate target for exploitation. Also its global position is actually a major hindrance to be able to project its military power in a useful way. And America's ability to do this through a deep water navy, vast airforce, nuclear deterrent...etc etc. is without a powerful diplomatic tool that America wields to its economic benefit via trade and commerce. Like it or not everyone in America benefits from this in one way or another.


stew

Quote from: heganboy on October 10, 2017, 01:37:57 AM
Strange that given the furore over costs of private flights, no one in the administration thought about the cost of Pence's publicity stunt to the public purse.

That's all it was a publicity stunt, as for the expense? C'mon, given Obamas wastefulness on that score you are being a tad hypocritical here.
Armagh, the one true love of a mans life.

screenexile

Quote from: stew on October 10, 2017, 09:22:43 AM
Quote from: heganboy on October 10, 2017, 01:37:57 AM
Strange that given the furore over costs of private flights, no one in the administration thought about the cost of Pence's publicity stunt to the public purse.

That's all it was a publicity stunt, as for the expense? C'mon, given Obamas wastefulness on that score you are being a tad hypocritical here.

It would be interesting to note the expenditure of the two presidents personal expenditure in the Whitehouse!! Are there figures for that anywhere?

AZOffaly

Puck, I'm a bit surprised at this. I lived in the States from 1997 to 2001, and there was NEVER a 'Thanks for your Service'. In fact America treated it's veterans in an absolutely despicable manner. Since 9/11, and the war in Afghanistan, I believe the US ruling classes decided that they needed to popularise the option of the military, to keep thousands of young men and women interested in a career in the armed forces. There was a massive push for faux patriotism, and anyone who said anything against the foreign policy was 'UnAmerican'. This then morphed into the overt displays of military support at NFL games, and other sporting events. Which was paid for by the Government, as essentially a massive recruiting campaign. And then, in a move to try and normalise the fact that young men and women are flying half way around the world to be shot at, and to shoot, this 'Thank you for your service' has come in.

I used to quite regularly meet US armed forces in Shannon airport when I was travelling back and forth to England, and I had chats with a few of them about the Cardinals, or whatever. I wished them 'good luck' and hoped they got home ok, but even if I were American, I don't think I would say 'Thanks for your service' because in my eyes that's a cynical manipulation of public sentiment by a government (past and present) that is only interested in maintaining support for the operations overseas, and continues to see it's young men and women as meat for the grinder if needs be.


gallsman

That's a crucial point AZ - all this sort of shite at NFL games is window dressing. The American system continues to treat its veterans with absolute contempt, starting with the President ffs.

AZOffaly

Quote from: gallsman on October 10, 2017, 10:12:29 AM
That's a crucial point AZ - all this sort of shite at NFL games is window dressing. The American system continues to treat its veterans with absolute contempt, starting with the President ffs.

Yes. This was discussed here a few years ago I believe. The fact that the Government paid for those displays tells you all you need to know. It was dressed up as a 'Thank You for your service' when really it was the Government saying 'Here's a few million dollars, please make it look like you appreciate our military, because we need to keep up support of what we are doing overseas.'

J70

And the piece of shit in chief has some balls trying to generate outrage over disrespecting the military and the flag when he mocked and dismissed John McCain's time as a prisoner of war, saying he respected people "who weren't captured". The same sc**bag who boasted that his own personal Vietnam was trying to avoid STDs in the 70s. I guess the bone spurs didn't slow down THAT aspect of his morally bankrupt existence?

J70

Quote from: magpie seanie on October 09, 2017, 04:40:34 PM
Trump should start with Budweiser. I think putting a flag on a beer can is more disrespectful that taking a knee during an anthem. But it's not really about that of course. It's about what they're protesting for except they can't or won't come out and say that.

Not just the flag.

Their products, at least in the US, now have "America" on one side of the bottle/can, in the same font and size as the word "Budweiser".




AZOffaly

Is that ongoing J70? I thought that was a July 4th thing.

They should have 'Piss' written on them.

J70

Quote from: AZOffaly on October 10, 2017, 02:23:32 PM
Is that ongoing J70? I thought that was a July 4th thing.

They should have 'Piss' written on them.

They were still on them a few weeks ago (last time I saw a case in the supermarket).

Even if I drank Budweiser (why would anyone drink shitty American beer like Budweiser or Coors or Miller with the multitude of craft and decent foreign brews available?) I would boycott it on principle for such a cynical, self serving campaign.

Puckoon

AZ, fair enough. We were ships in the night - my having arrived here in O2.

Older veterans have long been wearing their WW2, Korea, Vietnam hats and tee shirts with their regiment/platoon and tour years on them. I can't and won't speak for when that started, but I'll certainly ask a few of them if they were thanked/ if they think this component was campaign based.

I'll agree 100% on one thing - the veterans care system is beyond disgraceful. Even if the campaign you and others have suggested is completely true, the actual neglect of these men and women is a shame. Everyone knows it and perhaps it's another reason why people say thank you. The know they're getting rode every which way they can by the government they served.

I'm not overly surprised to read that you wouldn't say thanks - and I don't mean that in a personal disparaging way. It's not Irish culture to do so or think that way about the military of any country, America included. It's definitely American thing and being directly in the middle of it - I've zero problems with it. Costs me nothing, and I genuinely mean it when I say it.

I'm also not overly surprised to read joes comments either, but that's because he's a cynic.

AZOffaly

The older guys have always been proud of their service, and wear those patches with pride. I wasn't saying that the veterans themselves were ashamed or anything, nor was I suggesting they should be. However I would be more than surprised if any of those old timers were thanked for their service until the mid 00s. It wasn't even 'a thing' when I was there.

I know that Vietnam vets, for example, were treated as if they were lepers when they came back. Far from being 'thanked' for their service, they were almost shunned in a lot of cases.

Zulu

Nothing to do with the men and women who serve but I don't get thanking them for their service. They are not protecting any American's freedom, if that's even under threat and you want to thank someone then thank their nuclear arsenal, while they have that they won't be invaded by any force on this planet!

It's been a long time since America faced anyone on an equal footing and as far as I can see their military has brought a lot of unnecessary death and destruction to many innocent people for little more than maintaining their geo-political power. World geo-politics isn't a simple situation and many poor people are forced to join the US army due to limited alternatives but while I wouldn't disrespect them I can't see why you'd feel the need to thank them.

Eamonnca1

Quote from: Gmac on October 10, 2017, 01:20:34 AM
How's indigenous peoples day going for u Eamon ?

I went to work. We don't get that holiday, but public sector people do!