Apathy towards Hurling in the North/Ulster

[bigarsedkeeper]

The thing is Johnny there's more people with Itchy's view in Down that would let on. 'Leave that hurley to them boys down in Munster' would be common enough round us. Hurling is always fighting a losing battle it feels in football counties, just getting a game played seems like a big favour to you from the football lads. I really don't have a solution. Do Derry play hurling one week and football the next up 13s? I was told Dublin do that but that might be lies. The likes of Burren would never agree a football match every other week.

My lads play both codes and soccer during the winter. They've managed it this year but one will have to give at some point I'm sure. To be fair it is easier to work round the soccer because it's at a different time of the year mostly. I had one weekend where they had 3 games to play and it was the last weekend for the soccer matches.

I'm 99% sure Dublin have been doing football & hurling at alternate weekends at Go-Games ages now for several years, not sure about older age groups.

I'm not 100% sure what the actual format is for "blitz" games at Go-Games level in Tyrone, but I definitely know that in the schedule there are weekends that are exclusively for hurling. I think it runs on a three week cycle where football gets the first two weeks, then hurling the third.

For youth hurling U13 upwards, most hurling in Tyrone ATM is either via the Tain Óg leagues or competing in a neighboring county. Last year the county leagues didn't start until September and it looks likely it'll be the same this year.

Down do hurling 1st and 3rd Saturdays for 7s, 9s & 11s and the football at 7s & 9s go 2nd and 4th Saturdays. U11 football goes every Sunday morning though. It worked well last year but with all the tournaments starting again they just bull on whenever suits them.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Do you think there's an apathy towards hurling in the glens of Antrim, the ards  peninsula, Keady,Burt, slaughtneil, dungiven, Middleton, Dungannon etc etc etc ...

Nonsense thread. Though the ground being better in the better counties is one of the better reasons I have heard

Football clubs should be promoting hurling.

Adds so much to a player's skills set, it's a huge bonus.  Unfortunately 'football people', for some reason, see it as a threat.

It is a threat and in some counties it is wrecking football. I would say if your county has <150k population you need to prioritise one of the two. The problem I see is the hurling nazis who think that you are a lesser human if you do not worship Hurling and acknowledge a win in the Lory Meagher as some sort of enormous achievement.

What county is hurling 'causing a threat'? Explain that.(outwith KK).

Itchy, Cavan have started hurling, at a senior level, again and it's doing the footballers no harm.

Don't see it as a threat.

Players, at club level, can do the two no problem.

The examples are out there - at the highest levels, Sleacht Néill, Cratloe, Loughmore-Castleiney and Kilmacud Crokes etc. etc..  All doing doubles this past few years.

Football heads don't see the benefits of playing the two sports.

Your 'nazi' comment is quite telling - after saying counties 'need to prioritise one of the two'.

Re: The Lory Meagher competition.  It's at that team's level - like the Joe Mc Donagh and Christy Ring etc.  A good structured (while not perfect) for all the teams competing. Compare this with football and the arrogance of teams saying we've no interest in any competition unless it's the Sam Maguire.  At least now, some teams are buying into the TC. About time the arrogant footballers are starting to show some sense.

Regarding Cavan, Hurling is not a priority and as a result it is not a threat. However the cost of supporting this county team is a concern and I am not sure it is justified.

I dont live in Cavan anymore, the issues I see are in the county I live (and I would prefer to not say which county) and I am talking about hurling at club level. I will give you an example. Club I am involved with is small, has probably the bare minimum at each age group (approx 15-18 boys) hence we play mostly in B level at football. We would like to do more with our footballers to improve the standard, but even something as basic as training twice a week is impossible due to hurling commitments. We have a hurling training, hurling matches, hurling development squads (fellas that couldn't run a lap of the field are being called in to county dev squads at U13 for example being told they are county players, players aged 2 years below the U13 age are being called in). Speaking to other clubs the thoughts are the same. However, you cannot say a word or the hurling nazis in the county will jump down your throat. Thats my honest assessment of it. We can coexist with soccer and rugby but hurling is our biggest issue as a football club.

At least you are honest Itchy, but go have a word with Slaughtneil who've dominated the club scene in hurling and football and indeed camogie the last while. Being a proper dual club hasn't impacted on them one bit and is probably a big pull to potential members within that area.

It's doable if you want to do it, but maybe its too easy to blame the other code when there's more fundamental issues at play.

The thing is Johnny there's more people with Itchy's view in Down that would let on. 'Leave that hurley to them boys down in Munster' would be common enough round us. Hurling is always fighting a losing battle it feels in football counties, just getting a game played seems like a big favour to you from the football lads. I really don't have a solution. Do Derry play hurling one week and football the next up 13s? I was told Dublin do that but that might be lies. The likes of Burren would never agree a football match every other week.

My lads play both codes and soccer during the winter. They've managed it this year but one will have to give at some point I'm sure. To be fair it is easier to work round the soccer because it's at a different time of the year mostly. I had one weekend where they had 3 games to play and it was the last weekend for the soccer matches.

Derry alternate fixtures

Up to what age group Fear?

I'd need to check here but clashes never were an issue for us especially at minor and senior. We have clashes because we play in 2 counties but that's a choice we make

[Itchy]

The bit that doesn't fully add up for me is the being unable to train twice a week in the football due to hurling.

Small club

An u15 could have the following in a week

U15 football training
U15 hurling training
U17 football training
U17 hurling training
A u15 match ,(alternate football/hurling each week)
A u17 match (alternate football/hurling each week)
County dev squad(s) in either or both codes

Not even including soccer/rugby overlap from their winter season. Not including schools training and games.

Like I said, it's just not possible in a club with small numbers.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

The bit that doesn't fully add up for me is the being unable to train twice a week in the football due to hurling.

Small club

An u15 could have the following in a week

U15 football training
U15 hurling training
U17 football training
U17 hurling training
A u15 match ,(alternate football/hurling each week)
A u17 match (alternate football/hurling each week)
County dev squad(s) in either or both codes

Not even including soccer/rugby overlap from their winter season. Not including schools training and games.

Like I said, it's just not possible in a club with small numbers.

Their business

[marty34]

Do you think there's an apathy towards hurling in the glens of Antrim, the ards  peninsula, Keady,Burt, slaughtneil, dungiven, Middleton, Dungannon etc etc etc ...

Nonsense thread. Though the ground being better in the better counties is one of the better reasons I have heard

Football clubs should be promoting hurling.

Adds so much to a player's skills set, it's a huge bonus.  Unfortunately 'football people', for some reason, see it as a threat.

It is a threat and in some counties it is wrecking football. I would say if your county has <150k population you need to prioritise one of the two. The problem I see is the hurling nazis who think that you are a lesser human if you do not worship Hurling and acknowledge a win in the Lory Meagher as some sort of enormous achievement.

What county is hurling 'causing a threat'? Explain that.(outwith KK).

Itchy, Cavan have started hurling, at a senior level, again and it's doing the footballers no harm.

Don't see it as a threat.

Players, at club level, can do the two no problem.

The examples are out there - at the highest levels, Sleacht Néill, Cratloe, Loughmore-Castleiney and Kilmacud Crokes etc. etc..  All doing doubles this past few years.

Football heads don't see the benefits of playing the two sports.

Your 'nazi' comment is quite telling - after saying counties 'need to prioritise one of the two'.

Re: The Lory Meagher competition.  It's at that team's level - like the Joe Mc Donagh and Christy Ring etc.  A good structured (while not perfect) for all the teams competing. Compare this with football and the arrogance of teams saying we've no interest in any competition unless it's the Sam Maguire.  At least now, some teams are buying into the TC. About time the arrogant footballers are starting to show some sense.

Regarding Cavan, Hurling is not a priority and as a result it is not a threat. However the cost of supporting this county team is a concern and I am not sure it is justified.

I dont live in Cavan anymore, the issues I see are in the county I live (and I would prefer to not say which county) and I am talking about hurling at club level. I will give you an example. Club I am involved with is small, has probably the bare minimum at each age group (approx 15-18 boys) hence we play mostly in B level at football. We would like to do more with our footballers to improve the standard, but even something as basic as training twice a week is impossible due to hurling commitments. We have a hurling training, hurling matches, hurling development squads (fellas that couldn't run a lap of the field are being called in to county dev squads at U13 for example being told they are county players, players aged 2 years below the U13 age are being called in). Speaking to other clubs the thoughts are the same. However, you cannot say a word or the hurling nazis in the county will jump down your throat. Thats my honest assessment of it. We can coexist with soccer and rugby but hurling is our biggest issue as a football club.

Disappointing first post after my comments.

That bad I don't know where to statrt.

[imtommygunn]

Honestly I see a lot of irony in talking about hurling nazis when you clearly don't want hurling about the place.

That schedule isn't that bad - coaches could manage it among themselves.

[Armagh Cúchulainns]

When you ask is there an apathy towards hurling?
I always feel as though that's a dressed up question and what is usually meant by it is
Why don't you football heads give hurling the time of day?

Largely the main reason is - they have no interest in it but people aren't happy to leave it at that - and people go so far as to want to push their interest onto other people.

As a hurling/football referee - I get message requests on a regular basis from camogie and ladies football clubs and personnel asking for me to referee games - I always say no - why - I have no interest in either sport.
This has on occasion led to further, and in some cases, stupid, comments being made by the requestees but I don't engage with them any further I just say I don't referee those sports.

I think what some people want at some level, is that hurling should be forced onto football people and in the counties were its role reversal the football people want the football to be forced onto hurling people.

As its one organisation - people have a perception that 'we' must be all encompassing and every county board should be pushing the 2 sports equally.
Yes I do agree on a few things regarding structural issues with the setup of hurling North of Dublin and there are also major issues with football but the increased numbers playing football mask a lot of this.
Where it becomes a problem is where one side actively sets out to do the other harm - and we all know of many many exmaples of this.

[marty34]

Honestly I see a lot of irony in talking about hurling nazis when you clearly don't want hurling about the place.

That schedule isn't that bad - coaches could manage it among themselves.

One nigh a week for each, then bltz at week-end.

If senior clubs, winning doubles at the highest level like SN, Cratloe, Crokes and Cratloe can do it....surely U13's and U15's can cope with the timetable.

Training helps for the young lads and girls but it's the work that's done away from the pitch that tells the story.  The ones who never have a ball or hurley out of their hands, the ones that always play soccer even at break and lunch-time at school and do sports at the local youth club etc.  That's the benefits.

Not just training once or twice aweek for and hour.

[Itchy]

Honestly I see a lot of irony in talking about hurling nazis when you clearly don't want hurling about the place.

That schedule isn't that bad - coaches could manage it among themselves.

One nigh a week for each, then bltz at week-end.

If senior clubs, winning doubles at the highest level like SN, Cratloe, Crokes and Cratloe can do it....surely U13's and U15's can cope with the timetable.

Training helps for the young lads and girls but it's the work that's done away from the pitch that tells the story.  The ones who never have a ball or hurley out of their hands, the ones that always play soccer even at break and lunch-time at school and do sports at the local youth club etc.  That's the benefits.

Not just training once or twice aweek for and hour.

You are missing the point, I would suggest intentionally too. How many youth members has those 4 teams above? Would they have only 13 - 18 kids at U13 and again U15 and again at U17? You can look down your nose at what I am saying all you want but the facts are absolutely clear in my mind. You cannot do both sports to equal levels in small clubs (and probably in small counties too). The hurling nazis think that each club should be given 50:50 equal split between football and hurling in small clubs where it is impossible to do so. If anyone thinks that the schedule I have laid out above "isnt that bad" as someone said earlier, well they clearly have no concern over the loading of sports on kids and the long term effects of the same.

If you have a club with 40 youth members at each age group then that is different, you can conceivably have a football and hurling team with only small amounts of overlap and both can work together. I am not referring to that.

[imtommygunn]

It can be managed Itchy is my point. Why does someone have to be at all those training sessions? Why can agreements not be reached between coaches?

[full moon]

How much expenditure do the likes of Fermanagh, Sligo, Cavan, Monaghan etc have on their hurling teams?

[Milltown Row2]

How much expenditure do the likes of Fermanagh, Sligo, Cavan, Monaghan etc have on their hurling teams?

Lets just say its not a 50/50 split.

At senior level though I'd expect that if the senior footballers are all kitted out with all the extras then the hurlers get the same, the meals after games and training sessions and overnight stays and so on should be also the same as for the use of training facilities and S&C coaches and so on that should all be similar

[Itchy]

It can be managed Itchy is my point. Why does someone have to be at all those training sessions? Why can agreements not be reached between coaches?

Well if you have 13 - 18 players and say you excuse half of them due to them having 2 hurling sessions that week, what sort of training can you do with 6/7 lads. It doesnt work or at least if you do this you will have a very poorly prepared team. You also have zero chance of having a 2nd training session a week. I have found myself cancelling football trainings as lads are wrecked and the football team is paying the price. You cannot give both codes an equal footing in a small club.

[Itchy]

How much expenditure do the likes of Fermanagh, Sligo, Cavan, Monaghan etc have on their hurling teams?

This is old...

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/gaa-football/1940012/cavan-gaa-county-team-expenses-rose-by-e73000-in-2017/

Cavan spent 544k in 2017 on all teams. It was up 73k on the previous year. 2017 was the 1st year they re-entered a Senior Hurling team. So I suppose it roughly means in a county like Cavan, 5 years ago, 70k was the cost of a hurling team. Was it 70k well spent?

[imtommygunn]

Yes. The hurlers in your county deserve a chance to be able to compete at county level.