Tailteann Cup 2022

[yellowcard]

Cavan and Fermanagh know each other very well especially with Ricey and Kieran Donnelly involved in both set ups. I like Fermanagh doing well mostly sound folk and supporters. Unlike say an Armagh who are difficult to tolerate and lean towards thuggery on and off the field

That's a fair bit of mental gymnastics to fit Armagh into a thread on the Tailtean Cup.

I'll join in. With Armaghs recent Championship record, it's the likes of them that should be in the Tailteann Cup. It should never have been split on League only

And yes, it's tongue firmly in cheek so no need to bite, but saw the opportunity when you mentioned Armagh. Of course it's far more nuanced than that. But there's an element of truth in it.

It's not biting, its simply pulling up nonsensical claims so join in if you want. An element of truth to what?

Your Championship record is brutal. One of the worst in Ulster. And you're the last team to be in an Ulster final, everyone else has got there recently before you. But you do decently in Spring, so that lets you into Sam. If there was a weighting on championship results only (which it should be), you'd be doing well to not be in Tailteann. Mad system we have when you can be grand in Spring, bad in summer, but be rewarded. What was your last big Championship result?

The League is still the best gauge of a teams level. Championship results can mask a teams true standing depending on the draw although I accept that Armagh have a poor record in Ulster championship in recent times. If championship was used as a barometer then Derry would have been playing Tailteann cup this year also. I'm not sure how you define a 'big' championship win but we beat Derry 2 years ago.   

[Dreadnought]

Your Championship record is brutal. One of the worst in Ulster. And you're the last team to be in an Ulster final, everyone else has got there recently before you. But you do decently in Spring, so that lets you into Sam. If there was a weighting on championship results only (which it should be), you'd be doing well to not be in Tailteann. Mad system we have when you can be grand in Spring, bad in summer, but be rewarded. What was your last big Championship result?

The League is still the best gauge of a teams level. Championship results can mask a teams true standing depending on the draw although I accept that Armagh have a poor record in Ulster championship in recent times. If championship was used as a barometer then Derry would have been playing Tailteann cup this year also. I'm not sure how you define a 'big' championship win but we beat Derry 2 years ago.

Is it though? Take Cavan for instance. We've reached 2 Ulster finals, winning 1, while going down the divisions. We've beaten numerous Division 1 teams last 4 years. Last 4 years we've only been beaten by Division 1 teams in Championship. That's a far better Championship record than likes of Louth and Limerick and others who are there based solely on league. We concentrated on Championship, while using league to blood players. Are Cavan a Division 4 level team in reality? League is not always the best gauge of some teams, as it is our secondary competition. Championship doesn't mask anything, it is the main competition. A combination of both is needed maybe. I don't know of a Championship in the country who splits yearly on league only. They are all based on previous years Championships and moving up and down from them. 

And Derry wouldn't be. They reached the final. Even before winning on Sunday, they deserve their place by reaching it.

[yellowcard]

Your Championship record is brutal. One of the worst in Ulster. And you're the last team to be in an Ulster final, everyone else has got there recently before you. But you do decently in Spring, so that lets you into Sam. If there was a weighting on championship results only (which it should be), you'd be doing well to not be in Tailteann. Mad system we have when you can be grand in Spring, bad in summer, but be rewarded. What was your last big Championship result?

The League is still the best gauge of a teams level. Championship results can mask a teams true standing depending on the draw although I accept that Armagh have a poor record in Ulster championship in recent times. If championship was used as a barometer then Derry would have been playing Tailteann cup this year also. I'm not sure how you define a 'big' championship win but we beat Derry 2 years ago.

Is it though? Take Cavan for instance. We've reached 2 Ulster finals, winning 1, while going down the divisions. We've beaten numerous Division 1 teams last 4 years. Last 4 years we've only been beaten by Division 1 teams in Championship. That's a far better Championship record than likes of Louth and Limerick and others who are there based solely on league. We concentrated on Championship, while using league to blood players. Are Cavan a Division 4 level team in reality? League is not always the best gauge of some teams, as it is our secondary competition. Championship doesn't mask anything, it is the main competition. A combination of both is needed maybe. I don't know of a Championship in the country who splits yearly on league only. They are all based on previous years Championships and moving up and down from them. 

And Derry wouldn't be. They reached the final. Even before winning on Sunday, they deserve their place by reaching it.

I would say Cavan and Derry in recent years were two anomalies but by and large the League is still the best gauge. Neither were division 4 teams to begin with but for whatever reason they drifted into it. If League position was linked to championship status perhaps this might not have happened.

[Dreadnought]

Your Championship record is brutal. One of the worst in Ulster. And you're the last team to be in an Ulster final, everyone else has got there recently before you. But you do decently in Spring, so that lets you into Sam. If there was a weighting on championship results only (which it should be), you'd be doing well to not be in Tailteann. Mad system we have when you can be grand in Spring, bad in summer, but be rewarded. What was your last big Championship result?

The League is still the best gauge of a teams level. Championship results can mask a teams true standing depending on the draw although I accept that Armagh have a poor record in Ulster championship in recent times. If championship was used as a barometer then Derry would have been playing Tailteann cup this year also. I'm not sure how you define a 'big' championship win but we beat Derry 2 years ago.

Is it though? Take Cavan for instance. We've reached 2 Ulster finals, winning 1, while going down the divisions. We've beaten numerous Division 1 teams last 4 years. Last 4 years we've only been beaten by Division 1 teams in Championship. That's a far better Championship record than likes of Louth and Limerick and others who are there based solely on league. We concentrated on Championship, while using league to blood players. Are Cavan a Division 4 level team in reality? League is not always the best gauge of some teams, as it is our secondary competition. Championship doesn't mask anything, it is the main competition. A combination of both is needed maybe. I don't know of a Championship in the country who splits yearly on league only. They are all based on previous years Championships and moving up and down from them. 

And Derry wouldn't be. They reached the final. Even before winning on Sunday, they deserve their place by reaching it.

I would say Cavan and Derry in recent years were two anomalies but by and large the League is still the best gauge. Neither were division 4 teams to begin with but for whatever reason they drifted into it. If League position was linked to championship status perhaps this might not have happened.

Cavan were probably really the only anomaly. Derry seemed to deserve to drift down those years, as both their Championship and League record was bad at that time. Fair play to them for coming out of it though. Cavan, however, went down while maintaining good Championship results. And a huge bugbear of mine is that they used Covid disrupted leagues to gauge this. Cavan relegated from Division 2 on a decent points total on head to head. And down to Division 4 on a truncated League, while suffering a hangover from winning ulster a few months before. Should never have been down there.

Anyway, I've made my point. There's probably no perfect answer. Leagues tells some of the story, but not all of it. Like are some Division 1 teams really better than Dublin being now a division ahead of them? It is far more nuanced, and I was fishing a wee bit.

[Westside]

One of the bonuses of the Tailteann Cup is removing the possibility of having to sit with/near Armagh supporters.

I didn't realise that Armagh had a rivalry with Cavan but every days a school day.

We don't consider Armagh rivals. Merely an annoyance. Upstarts who don't know how to behave either on the field or in the stands.

[Dreadnought]

One of the bonuses of the Tailteann Cup is removing the possibility of having to sit with/near Armagh supporters.

I didn't realise that Armagh had a rivalry with Cavan but every days a school day.

Big row in the pre match parade 2014?

Well I'd forgotten that myself. Given it's so long ago, I expect that very few players are still playing from that time. And I'm not sure what exactly the fans had to do with it either but you if you search hard enough to be offended I guess you will find a reason somewhere.

Still a few from Cavan playing, but I'm more messing than anything. My mother still has no time for Armagh since it! 

[yellowcard]

One of the bonuses of the Tailteann Cup is removing the possibility of having to sit with/near Armagh supporters.

I didn't realise that Armagh had a rivalry with Cavan but every days a school day.

We don't consider Armagh rivals. Merely an annoyance. Upstarts who don't know how to behave either on the field or in the stands.

🤣🤣 If GAA fans had the same approach over incidents that happened at matches in the past there would be nobody sitting beside each other in grounds up and down the country. 

[Itchy]

In my opinion league is too simple to measure it. So for example Armagh going out training 6 months before everyone else so they are flying in the league does not make them a better team. By and large everyone is at similar level of fitness for championship so thats where teams should be measured.

[Lazer]

Cavan were probably really the only anomaly. Derry seemed to deserve to drift down those years, as both their Championship and League record was bad at that time. Fair play to them for coming out of it though. Cavan, however, went down while maintaining good Championship results. And a huge bugbear of mine is that they used Covid disrupted leagues to gauge this. Cavan relegated from Division 2 on a decent points total on head to head. And down to Division 4 on a truncated League, while suffering a hangover from winning ulster a few months before. Should never have been down there.

Anyway, I've made my point. There's probably no perfect answer. Leagues tells some of the story, but not all of it. Like are some Division 1 teams really better than Dublin being now a division ahead of them? It is far more nuanced, and I was fishing a wee bit.

I agree about the Covid leagues being used as the gauge, that combined with the Tailteann having a knockout and N/S Divisions this year makes it a nonsense.
Would have been  far better to delay a year and set up properly and had the correct format in place for year one.

For all those teams that got knocked out in the first round of Tailteann what have they gained over being knocked out of the first round of the qualifiers?

[yellowcard]

In my opinion league is too simple to measure it. So for example Armagh going out training 6 months before everyone else so they are flying in the league does not make them a better team. By and large everyone is at similar level of fitness for championship so thats where teams should be measured.

But how do you measure championship performance when luck of the draw could see a big team knocked out early. Should Monaghan, Tyrone, Armagh or Mayo fall into the Tailteann Cup next year if they fail to win their first round qualifier next week at the expense of say Limerick, Tipperary or Leitrim? League is still the best gauge of performance. If teams are so concerned about getting back up the ladder then they will have to take the League more seriously. Incidentally I don't think many counties don't take the League seriously in the modern era. Sure Armagh have started training for next years League already.   

[seafoid]

League is the fairest. It's over 7 games. Maybe the Tailteann will change how D2 teams think about relegation.

[armaghniac]

Sure Armagh have started training for next years League already.

That's because they do SFA in the championship.

[seafoid]

Sure Armagh have started training for next years League already.

That's because they do SFA in the championship.

It's Geezer's fault

[Dreadnought]

League is the fairest. It's over 7 games. Maybe the Tailteann will change how D2 teams think about relegation.

It wasn't though. Some teams are in it due to a 3 group game league in 2021. And how really is it fairest? Winter/early Spring football, a few inopportune injuries and you're out of the championship in summer? Like we can relegate someone on winter football score difference. It's too arbitrary, league directly linked to Championship isn't done anywhere else in GAA. There has to be better ways than this.

[yellowcard]

League is the fairest. It's over 7 games. Maybe the Tailteann will change how D2 teams think about relegation.

It wasn't though. Some teams are in it due to a 3 group game league in 2021. And how really is it fairest? Winter/early Spring football, a few inopportune injuries and you're out of the championship in summer? Like we can relegate someone on winter football score difference. It's too arbitrary, league directly linked to Championship isn't done anywhere else in GAA. There has to be better ways than this.

I'll give you the fact that League campaigns were shortened in 2021 due to Covid which may have skewed things. But otherwise I really don't see the complaints.

Cavan will have two chances to get back up to Sam Maguire status before next years championship. Either win the Tailteann Cup or finish in the top 2 in division three. If they are incapable of doing that then they can have no complaints over pitches being too soft or the likes. The rules are the same for everybody. In Armagh club football a teams championship grading is linked to league performance and it works very well.