Appeals

[J70]

So the take home message from this is "all in lads - if you get punished, we'll appeal it and most likely get you off".

Back to business as usual for the GAA when it comes to discipline.

As long as only 3 or 4 are punished from a dozen involved then there is no real justice.

Which is why we need team punishments, but it won't happen.

And this isn't just about melees. Its the whole GAA culture over the past 30 years. Get the solicitors in to look for an uncrossed T or an undotted I and get your player off on some ludicrous technicality is the general consensus. This indulgence (and even celebration to an extent) of rule breaking and cute hoorism afterwards sickens my hole, to be honest, and it doesn't do the GAA any favours as a sporting/cultural organization, even if it is fairly reflective of Irish society.

[marty34]

Yeah, wee Johnny will miss a county final because he punched somebody in the semi-final type of attitude.

Yeah, he should miss because he acted the clown.

[yellowcard]

So the take home message from this is "all in lads - if you get punished, we'll appeal it and most likely get you off".

Back to business as usual for the GAA when it comes to discipline.

As long as only 3 or 4 are punished from a dozen involved then there is no real justice.

Which is why we need team punishments, but it won't happen.

And this isn't just about melees. Its the whole GAA culture over the past 30 years. Get the solicitors in to look for an uncrossed T or an undotted I and get your player off on some ludicrous technicality is the general consensus. This indulgence (and even celebration to an extent) of rule breaking and cute hoorism afterwards sickens my hole, to be honest, and it doesn't do the GAA any favours as a sporting/cultural organization, even if it is fairly reflective of Irish society.

It is thought that Donegal chose not to appeal because they were simply afraid that Murphy would be cited and also suspended. Not because they thought it was the correct thing to do. They gambled and lost and Ferry and McGee must be left asking questions of the Donegal management team who failed to back them in the way that Armagh backed their players.

It has been going on for years where players have been getting off on technicalities. However it's not like any player committed a serious offence to begin with during this incident. It was blown up by The Sunday Game in the aftermatch of David Gough flashing red cards everywhere in the Athletic Grounds.       

[J70]

So the take home message from this is "all in lads - if you get punished, we'll appeal it and most likely get you off".

Back to business as usual for the GAA when it comes to discipline.

As long as only 3 or 4 are punished from a dozen involved then there is no real justice.

Which is why we need team punishments, but it won't happen.

And this isn't just about melees. Its the whole GAA culture over the past 30 years. Get the solicitors in to look for an uncrossed T or an undotted I and get your player off on some ludicrous technicality is the general consensus. This indulgence (and even celebration to an extent) of rule breaking and cute hoorism afterwards sickens my hole, to be honest, and it doesn't do the GAA any favours as a sporting/cultural organization, even if it is fairly reflective of Irish society.

It is thought that Donegal chose not to appeal because they were simply afraid that Murphy would be cited and also suspended. Not because they thought it was the correct thing to do. They gambled and lost and Ferry and McGee must be left asking questions of the Donegal management team who failed to back them in the way that Armagh backed their players.

It has been going on for years where players have been getting off on technicalities. However it's not like any player committed a serious offence to begin with during this incident. It was blown up by The Sunday Game in the aftermatch of David Gough flashing red cards everywhere in the Athletic Grounds.       

Let's say your "it is thought" speculation on Murphy is true.

That is a f**king ridiculous state of affairs.

If Murphy did something and the evidence is there, then it shouldn't matter one f**k whether or not Donegal appeal the other suspensions. He should have been cited and punished. End of story.

It beggars belief that that could be the actual way the GAA conducts its business.

[yellowcard]

So the take home message from this is "all in lads - if you get punished, we'll appeal it and most likely get you off".

Back to business as usual for the GAA when it comes to discipline.

As long as only 3 or 4 are punished from a dozen involved then there is no real justice.

Which is why we need team punishments, but it won't happen.

And this isn't just about melees. Its the whole GAA culture over the past 30 years. Get the solicitors in to look for an uncrossed T or an undotted I and get your player off on some ludicrous technicality is the general consensus. This indulgence (and even celebration to an extent) of rule breaking and cute hoorism afterwards sickens my hole, to be honest, and it doesn't do the GAA any favours as a sporting/cultural organization, even if it is fairly reflective of Irish society.

It is thought that Donegal chose not to appeal because they were simply afraid that Murphy would be cited and also suspended. Not because they thought it was the correct thing to do. They gambled and lost and Ferry and McGee must be left asking questions of the Donegal management team who failed to back them in the way that Armagh backed their players.

It has been going on for years where players have been getting off on technicalities. However it's not like any player committed a serious offence to begin with during this incident. It was blown up by The Sunday Game in the aftermatch of David Gough flashing red cards everywhere in the Athletic Grounds.       

Let's say your "it is thought" speculation on Murphy is true.

That is a f**king ridiculous state of affairs.

If Murphy did something and the evidence is there, then it shouldn't matter one f**k whether or not Donegal appeal the other suspensions. He should have been cited and punished. End of story.

It beggars belief that that could be the actual way the GAA conducts its business.

I'm not disagreeing with you but it has been the way of the GAA for years. As Eamon McGee said previously, appeal and deny and it is almost certain that your suspension will be overturned with the correct legal team behind you. Maybe Donegal thought that since the 4 Tyrone players had failed to get off previously that things had changed and therefore didn't bother appealing. Maybe I have missed something but nobody is still the wiser as to what the 5 players did to warrant one match bans in the first place. So this is slightly different to some more clear cut bans being overturned in the past. 

The message is now back to the same as it ever was however. Appeal, deny and get a good legal team in place and you should be fine.   

[J70]

And make sure everyone piles in when an incident occurs!

I hope its not the case and a glorious, sporting, end-to-end contest breaks out, but I'm afraid this match could end up being a nasty, ill-tempered affair with the Sunday Game spending 15 minutes going through the scuffles.

[armaghniac]

I still say that they need a rule change to stop the all in aspect. Whistle blows and players should be required to stand where there are and 2m from other players (this will also prevent Covid).
This season is probably lost, but they need to introduce something like this in the pre season competitions and stick to it.

[JoG2]

According to the Irish News today Rian O'Neill got his suspension overturned due to the fact that the video evidence used was not official footage. Whatever that means. His was the only suspension I thought might be justified in the first instance even if there was an argument to be had in terms of the actual force of the striking action. I'm not sure how the other lads managed to get off given that they were in the initial referees report.

It is good for Armagh and the right outcome was eventually reached but it does make a bit of a mockery of the GAA disciplinary system.

Well that's a load of nonsense for a start.. Any video evidence can be used

Are you sure? Have heard that before about not official footage

Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white in the rule book

[Armagh18]

According to the Irish News today Rian O'Neill got his suspension overturned due to the fact that the video evidence used was not official footage. Whatever that means. His was the only suspension I thought might be justified in the first instance even if there was an argument to be had in terms of the actual force of the striking action. I'm not sure how the other lads managed to get off given that they were in the initial referees report.

It is good for Armagh and the right outcome was eventually reached but it does make a bit of a mockery of the GAA disciplinary system.

Well that's a load of nonsense for a start.. Any video evidence can be used

Are you sure? Have heard that before about not official footage

Any video footage as long as it's 'reliable and unedited'. Back and white in the rule book

Fair enough. Would love to see the refs report and hear exactly what went all in all hearings!

[Wildweasel74]

As J70 already said, it's now open season for all in. I remember Mark Lynch been sent of a few yrs bck to break up the Kildare goalkeeper skirmishing with the much smaller Derry forward. Other arrived after, He got the line as 3rd man in, even though he done nothing. First 2 men only got yellows. Must done away with that rule, though it never addressed the main aggressor starting it in the first place.

[Wildweasel74]

Plus too many supporters are only too happy to get their own county players off and to hell with the rules or doing right.

[David McKeown]

I think this entire thread shows how much a shambles the system is. No one appealed in this case just for the sake of it. No one was cleared on mere technicalities or because I 's weren't dotted or t's weren't crossed. Nor did the language of the referees report result in appeals being successful. Proper procedures were not followed and there was real prejudice caused by those failings. No one should be expected to accept a ban that has not been fairly applied. In that regard justice has been done.

There is though a real opportunity for the Association to look at the farce that this case has demonstrated and to learn from it. Unfortunately I doubt the association will.

[armaghniac]

Mackin withdrew his appeal and will serve his suspension like a man. This is entirely unrelated to the fact that he is injured.

[Main Street]

So the take home message from this is "all in lads - if you get punished, we'll appeal it and most likely get you off".

Back to business as usual for the GAA when it comes to discipline.

As long as only 3 or 4 are punished from a dozen involved then there is no real justice.

Which is why we need team punishments, but it won't happen.

And this isn't just about melees. Its the whole GAA culture over the past 30 years. Get the solicitors in to look for an uncrossed T or an undotted I and get your player off on some ludicrous technicality is the general consensus. This indulgence (and even celebration to an extent) of rule breaking and cute hoorism afterwards sickens my hole, to be honest, and it doesn't do the GAA any favours as a sporting/cultural organization, even if it is fairly reflective of Irish society.

Team punishments have happened. About 10 years ago in a televised league (div 2) game at Clones, Mon v Kildare, there was a very lengthy melee just as the players were leaving the pitch at ht. It was clearly started by a disgruntled Kildare player who received a red card and later a Kildare official 4 months. The red card hurt Kildare and they lost a close game.
Croke Park decided that both Monaghan and Kildare be fined Eur5k. Monaghan appealed and instead of the 5k fine they ended up being sanctioned to concede home advantage v Galway. Kildare, the crafty feckers, saw what happened to the Monaghan appeal and decided to pay their 5k.
Galway pushed out ahead at the end and won a close game, Monaghan were relegated, they only had 2 home games and it's safe enough to claim that losing that home advantage was a big factor in the relegation.
Afair there were a number of teams similarly sanctioned (losing home advantage) around that time in the league.
A team punishment is a hefty sanction whereas targeting the worst culprits can just hurt a team but not cripple it.

Contributing to melee is vague but what about the Category 3 rule
(i) Striking or attempting to strike with arm, elbow, hand or knee.

Why can that not be applied to the more aggressive participants in a melee?

[LCohen]

The whole system is need of review. But fans also need to get the a few things straight.

Players can be identified by officials or by a camera. The amount of complaining that you read here based on the video alone and ignoring that officials may have seen things off camera is incredible.

There are also claims that refs have to aim and achieve parity is frankly nonsense. It won't always be the case that both teams are equally guilty. Even in a fracas that has roughly equal numbers from both sides won't necessarily have equal numbers crossing the line into the type of actions that the disciplinary authorities are cracking down on (punches, headlocks, throwing to the ground etc).

What makes you say they are cracking down on punches, headlocks etc. None of the 3 Armagh players were cited for this. None of them were involved in any of this. The height of the complaint against them was that they contributed to a melee. This whole process was a farce from start to finish.

In answer to your question is the various punishments that have been meted out for punching and subsequent to the Armagh vs Tyrone match, headlocks.

I never said any of Armagh players were cited for punches or headlocks so you appear to be answering a question nobody has posed.

I would not be as confident as you that these players were not involved in something. The referee saw something.