Appeals

[tyrone08]

Have the GAA shot themselves in the foot with news that all armagh players have won their appeals?

I am guessing the refs are going to feel undermined as their decisions are now being over ruled.

One match bans are now meaning less it seems as there is a high chance it will be over turned.

Surely every team will now appeal every major decisions as its clear you most likely will get off.

So much for the GAA setting their stall out in regards to meeles etc at the start of the year.

[Wildweasel74]

I like a process in where u appeal and fail, ban doubled, am not sure if this previously done in American fball or Rugby.

[LCohen]

The whole system is need of review. But fans also need to get the a few things straight.

Players can be identified by officials or by a camera. The amount of complaining that you read here based on the video alone and ignoring that officials may have seen things off camera is incredible.

There are also claims that refs have to aim and achieve parity is frankly nonsense. It won't always be the case that both teams are equally guilty. Even in a fracas that has roughly equal numbers from both sides won't necessarily have equal numbers crossing the line into the type of actions that the disciplinary authorities are cracking down on (punches, headlocks, throwing to the ground etc).

[David McKeown]

The whole system is need of review. But fans also need to get the a few things straight.

Players can be identified by officials or by a camera. The amount of complaining that you read here based on the video alone and ignoring that officials may have seen things off camera is incredible.

There are also claims that refs have to aim and achieve parity is frankly nonsense. It won't always be the case that both teams are equally guilty. Even in a fracas that has roughly equal numbers from both sides won't necessarily have equal numbers crossing the line into the type of actions that the disciplinary authorities are cracking down on (punches, headlocks, throwing to the ground etc).

What makes you say they are cracking down on punches, headlocks etc. None of the 3 Armagh players were cited for this. None of them were involved in any of this. The height of the complaint against them was that they contributed to a melee. This whole process was a farce from start to finish.

[marty34]

Yeah, whole thing needs looked at. It's crazy this past while especially.

Players/counties appeal and they appeal again etc.

Too many chances to appeal.  They should get only one.

This must be driving referee mad - why send lads off, there's a good chance they'll get off by appeal.

Whole process at inter-county needs looked at.

[rosnarun]

I like a process in where u appeal and fail, ban doubled, am not sure if this previously done in American fball or Rugby.

very true there has to be a potential cost else why not appeal.
how long before some one sues saying the overturned decision change the outcome and demand a replay , some thing similar to how Galway cheated Mayo out of the 1925 All Ireland

[thewobbler]

I'm really quite frustrated by all this shite.

Every fuckwit player and mentor in Ireland will now again be convinced that the appeals process always delivers the result you want. Cue another busy year for hearings committees up and down the country, where little Johnny says "I've been training since new year's day for this match, and to miss it for handbags, it'll break me, I may never play again".

f**k that.

[David McKeown]

I'm really quite frustrated by all this shite.

Every fuckwit player and mentor in Ireland will now again be convinced that the appeals process always delivers the result you want. Cue another busy year for hearings committees up and down the country, where little Johnny says "I've been training since new year's day for this match, and to miss it for handbags, it'll break me, I may never play again".

f**k that.

Few things.

1. Armagh only had one appeal. The CCCC recommended a sanction. Armagh could either accept that or ask for a hearing. They asked for a hearing where in the case of O'Neill the suspension was dismissed because it had not be brought in a procedurally fair manner. Therefore the merits of it did not have to be discussed. The suspensions of the other three were upheld on the basis that the referees report is gospel. There only appeal against that decision was to the Central Appeals Committee. So there wasn't and aren't endless appeals in this matter. It's similar to other sports that allow for retrospective punishment.

2. No one had their ban over turned on the basis of any kind of sob story. Either the bans weren't fair or they weren't accurate.

3. If we as an association don't want this to continue then we need to do something about it. It's a farce that melee isn't defined in the rule book (although interestingly it is in International Rules). It's a farce that no one knows why certain players are picked out but others aren't. Attempts have been made to improve things but they can't get through council. There is no excuse for the association not to have a robust and well written rule book. There is no excuse for the association not having clear and transparent procedures. The true farce out of all of this is that nothing will likely change.

[general_lee]

I'm really quite frustrated by all this shite.

Every fuckwit player and mentor in Ireland will now again be convinced that the appeals process always delivers the result you want. Cue another busy year for hearings committees up and down the country, where little Johnny says "I've been training since new year's day for this match, and to miss it for handbags, it'll break me, I may never play again".

f**k that.

Few things.

1. Armagh only had one appeal. The CCCC recommended a sanction. Armagh could either accept that or ask for a hearing. They asked for a hearing where in the case of O'Neill the suspension was dismissed because it had not be brought in a procedurally fair manner. Therefore the merits of it did not have to be discussed. The suspensions of the other three were upheld on the basis that the referees report is gospel. There only appeal against that decision was to the Central Appeals Committee. So there wasn't and aren't endless appeals in this matter. It's similar to other sports that allow for retrospective punishment.

2. No one had their ban over turned on the basis of any kind of sob story. Either the bans weren't fair or they weren't accurate.

3. If we as an association don't want this to continue then we need to do something about it. It's a farce that melee isn't defined in the rule book (although interestingly it is in International Rules). It's a farce that no one knows why certain players are picked out but others aren't. Attempts have been made to improve things but they can't get through council. There is no excuse for the association not to have a robust and well written rule book. There is no excuse for the association not having clear and transparent procedures. The true farce out of all of this is that nothing will likely change.

Have to agree. What constitutes "contributing to a melee" is too ambiguous. Is it only physical or are verbal contributions included? Is someone trying to split up a melee contributing? Is being within 2m of a melee contributing?

[marty34]

I'm really quite frustrated by all this shite.

Every fuckwit player and mentor in Ireland will now again be convinced that the appeals process always delivers the result you want. Cue another busy year for hearings committees up and down the country, where little Johnny says "I've been training since new year's day for this match, and to miss it for handbags, it'll break me, I may never play again".

f**k that.

Few things.

1. Armagh only had one appeal. The CCCC recommended a sanction. Armagh could either accept that or ask for a hearing. They asked for a hearing where in the case of O'Neill the suspension was dismissed because it had not be brought in a procedurally fair manner. Therefore the merits of it did not have to be discussed. The suspensions of the other three were upheld on the basis that the referees report is gospel. There only appeal against that decision was to the Central Appeals Committee. So there wasn't and aren't endless appeals in this matter. It's similar to other sports that allow for retrospective punishment.

2. No one had their ban over turned on the basis of any kind of sob story. Either the bans weren't fair or they weren't accurate.

3. If we as an association don't want this to continue then we need to do something about it. It's a farce that melee isn't defined in the rule book (although interestingly it is in International Rules). It's a farce that no one knows why certain players are picked out but others aren't. Attempts have been made to improve things but they can't get through council. There is no excuse for the association not to have a robust and well written rule book. There is no excuse for the association not having clear and transparent procedures. The true farce out of all of this is that nothing will likely change.

Have to agree. What constitutes "contributing to a melee" is too ambiguous. Is it only physical or are verbal contributions included? Is someone trying to split up a melee contributing? Is being within 2m of a melee contributing?

But where does this end?  We'll need rules for everything to do with every action a player does?

Btw, I thought there was a rule that 3rd man in etc. gets a red card. Is this still in action?

Would this not stop a melee if enforced?

[thewobbler]

Honestly David while you're clearly trying to be level headed about this, you're barking up the wrong tree looking for clear definitions for everything that may constitute foul play.

No sporting association in the world attempts to defines a melee in law. They instead, like GAA, have a catch-all disrepute charge, that can be employed as needed.

The biggest problem with GAA disciplinary process is NOT the rule book as you suggest: that's a complete cop out. The problem is cultural. Short of putting a man in hospital, players and their entire support, expect red cards to be overturned. It's absolutely f**king ludicrous. It needs to change.

[Wildweasel74]

Am on for a independent review of games by a committee during the week after game, review ref report but also review Any TV footage. Any player doing wrong, get banned etc, 1 appeal, if it goes against them, ban doubled. No 2nd appeal etc. How come these Counties are not fined for bringing the game into a bad light. Rory O'Connell started all this crap when he got a injunction to play in a game he was rightly suspended for. Punching should be at least a 2 match ban. Kicking the same if not more. Too many dangerous head high tackles are only getting yellow cards where a number are beyond the yellow card level. Again very poor directive to refs. Any sub incursion 6 months, Backroom Staff the same

[Louther]

Honestly not a surprise. Said it before and say if again but GAA disciplinary structure is a shambles. It's a combination of been poorly worded/defined and old school wink & a nudge people sitting on them be it at county and provincial level.

I've been in the room and you can tell straight away what's happening. I feel for refs who are trying to do their job.

The GAA structure to keep with the modern game now. They can't seem to get even the basics right - fixtures, suspensions, expenses agreed and move on. All the whole the championship starts and no one barely notices. You'd hope that will change this weekend.

[Wildweasel74]

I remember Tommy Carr getting 6 months for kicking Brian Murray, nowadays supporters do that much crying, and management appeals that the same offence be lucky to get a 2 game ban.

[Wildweasel74]

End of the day, procedure or not, Rian O'Neill should been suspended, as to the Donegal sub Goalkeeper also.How after all these years men cannot be suspended on video evidence is ridiculous.