Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

Started by Joxer, October 06, 2010, 02:42:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

ziggysego

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2010, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on October 07, 2010, 10:21:48 PM
Conference centre, museum, hotel/restuarant, etc etc

:D

Like take your points says.... You ever been?


You are not going to have a conference centre on the andytown road. Nor a museum, or a hotel! It is not Jones Rd, or even close.

People laughed at these days when they were suggested for Croke Park.
Testing Accessibility

fitzroyalty

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on October 07, 2010, 11:16:14 PM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on October 07, 2010, 10:21:48 PM
Conference centre, museum, hotel/restuarant, etc etc

:D

Like take your points says.... You ever been?


You are not going to have a conference centre on the andytown road. Nor a museum, or a hotel! It is not Jones Rd, or even close.
f**k me it's not Beirut! Any brand new stadium is going to have huge commercial potential. Stranger things have happened!

Rufus T Firefly

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:36:11 PM
I'd say a lot travelled by bus. For that game, probably more than normal by rail, but then Armagh and Down are two of the counties better served by the network - that won't be the case for people travelling from Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan and Tyrone. I think the only difference in the rail network between now and then was the Portadown - Omagh - Strabane - Derry line, closed around 1965.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but you are against the Casement redevelopment on the basis of access?

I have been to many, many matches in Clones and Casement, and the transport infrastructure around Casement is far superior to that of Clones (and I'm making this comparison, as Clones to me is the only genuine alternative). Belfast has frequent taxi and bus services to the City Centre that pass the Casement Park area, Park and Ride facilities to the City Centre from points along the motorway, and of course the motorway itself along with other main routes into that side of the City. There are also rail links and regular bus services. Throw in a couple of airports as well.

I have found (from personal experience) that getting out of Belfast after a big game is easier than Clones. Clones has hosted many big games - in response to your earlier question I have already pointed out that Casement held over 41,000 for the 1961 Ulster Final, and a crowd of around 35,000 for the Ulster semi-final of 1992. Someone else has pointed out that there was just under 28,000 for the Armagh v Derry semi-final in 2005, and I think there was a crowd of around 30,000 for the replay between Derry and Antrim in the Ulster semi-final of 2000.

These all point to evidence that Casement has hosted crowds of 30,000 plus without issues.

Just for interest by the way, I took this photo a few years back, before the floodlights were installed - the M1 is above the ground in the picture.



Applesisapples

Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:17:53 PM
Quote from: Applesisapples on October 07, 2010, 08:39:01 AM
Belfast is the Capital City of Ulster ( 9 County Not The Wee Province) and all the traffic does not have to desend on casement, think rail service with bus links and the Sprucefield park and ride....no brainer.
Is Belfast the Capital City of Ulster? Do the provinces have capital cities?

Anyway, as for Casement and rail services, that's fine for the small proprtion of Ulster GAA fans close to our 'vast' rail network. It would be interesting to know how many people currently use rail to travel to games in Casement. I can't imagine it being too significant.

As for busses or Park and Ride schemes, there's no reason why the same couldn't be done for Clones to relieve congestion. Part and ride from Monaghan. It's not something that could only be a solution for Casement. The uptake on such schemes would be another matter altogether.
I have a great affection and many happy memories of casement stretching to the late 1960's, but be realistic the executive in Stormont is providing the funding, personnally if the UC spent it in Clones I wouldn't care but I can't see the skirt wearing minister for Cuulture, Oorts en Leesure agreeing!! :D

snatter

Quote from: Applesisapples on October 08, 2010, 09:50:13 AM
I can't see the skirt wearing minister for Cuulture, Oorts en Leesure agreeing!! :D

Yes, but they've realised that £50million to the GAA is the price they must pay if they're to bail out their beloved Norn Iron with yet more public money.

Local soccer draws such small support that they were unable to maintain the free stand they got at Windsor, and now can't afford to bring Windsor up to Fifa minimum standards. Notwithstanding their miniscule support, they think its their right to bankrolled by the taxpayer. Hands up everyody that remembers Windsor Park getting a free stand whilst GAA crowds three times the size were standing on grass banks and got nothing.

Unionists will throw money to avoid the prospect of NI being forced to play in Scotland because more people would then question why we have two teams on this small island. Mc Causland and his OWC ilk would regard a single all ireland soccer team as a very symbolic weakening of their beloved union, and would regard any price as worth paying to avoid that.

That's what this has always been about, not the GAA's greater need, and certainly not the fact that there are better things to spend the money on.

The only difference between now and 1983 is that we've now got devolution and can now demand that our greater needs get funded equitably. Side deals between english Tory ministers and local unionists no longer count. They either give us the share that our larger crowds dictate we should have, or the deal's off and they can either play their games in Ayr, or start running a few lottos.

Two Hands FFS

I've been going to Casement to watch club & county matches(7/8 times a year) for about 20 years now & I honestly can barely recall any trouble either in the stadium or outside. As someone said you'd think it was Beirut!!!
The Ulster Council are going to take the money, they'd be crazy not to. There hardly like to say ' don't worry about the £50 million  we've got a nice ground in a different country that has tradition & is good craic, plus you'd get yourhead knocked in up andytown'
The Ulster council won't build a 40,000 seater stadium & then not think of the infrastructure & parking/restaurants. They will have already thought of this. They are very well organised & I'd be very surprised if the money comes that they don't make a good job of it.

Banana Man

just out of interest, does anyone know if they get the £50m will there b stipulations attached e.g. i must be made available for soccer games if something happened with the updated Windsor park, wouldn't shock me if nelson switched the goalposts on this one...

snatter

Quote from: Banana Man on October 08, 2010, 11:30:02 AM
just out of interest, does anyone know if they get the £50m will there b stipulations attached e.g. i must be made available for soccer games if something happened with the updated Windsor park, wouldn't shock me if nelson switched the goalposts on this one...

if they did that, they'd clearly be collapsing the deal, and they wouldn't get their beloved Windsor done up, which is what this is really all about (see above).

With devolution, this deal must be approved by both sides, not just unionists. Thankfully, they can't ignore our larger attendances like they did in 1983.

WeeDonns

QuoteName a problem at a GAA ground that would have been avoided by having an all-seater stadium. Just one.
At a club game a few years back, one of our lads got smacked off the ball. His Da ran on and thumped the guy who done it. If' he'd been sitting in a seat behind a fence, he probably wouldn't have.

Also, at another club game, similar situation where a lad's mum & dad both ran on to smack a boy.
There's 2 examples! Now we have a fence, you'll be glad to hear :)


Has anyone got the plans for Casement that were in the Irish News a while back?
They also show new car parks south of the M1 and a bridge over to casement. Also don't forget the many car parks on the boucher rd


QuoteYou are not going to have a conference centre on the andytown road. Nor a museum, or a hotel! It is not Jones Rd, or even close.

IMO the andytown road has a hell of a lot more going for it than Jones' had before croker was redeveloped. Before croker was redeveloped would Jurys have considered running a hotel out there??

Do yous think Ulster rugby would ever be interested in using it for a big tie?

RadioGAAGAA

Quote from: WeeDonns on October 08, 2010, 12:11:40 PM
QuoteName a problem at a GAA ground that would have been avoided by having an all-seater stadium. Just one.
At a club game a few years back, one of our lads got smacked off the ball. His Da ran on and thumped the guy who done it. If' he'd been sitting in a seat behind a fence, he probably wouldn't have.

Would the prevention be the seat or the fence?


Quote from: WeeDonns on October 08, 2010, 12:11:40 PM
Also, at another club game, similar situation where a lad's mum & dad both ran on to smack a boy.
There's 2 examples! Now we have a fence, you'll be glad to hear :)

Not really.


QuoteIMO the andytown road has a hell of a lot more going for it than Jones' had before croker was redeveloped.

There already are big conference hotels in the city centre, which will make any Andytown version a hard sell.

Quote
Do yous think Ulster rugby would ever be interested in using it for a big tie?

I would consider it highly unlikely - but not impossible.
i usse an speelchekor

WeeDonns

I was just joking about the two examples there.

QuoteThere already are big conference hotels in the city centre, which will make any Andytown version a hard sell.
There were already plenty of convention centres in Dublin city centre before croker opened, yet its successful. I'd say the unique location of having a convention in a sports stadium, may help market it as a venue. I don't see why it would be much different for a new Casement. Andytown isn't the nicest location, either is drumcondra, and neither are in the city centre.

Maguire01

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on October 07, 2010, 11:54:37 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on October 07, 2010, 07:36:11 PM
I'd say a lot travelled by bus. For that game, probably more than normal by rail, but then Armagh and Down are two of the counties better served by the network - that won't be the case for people travelling from Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan and Tyrone. I think the only difference in the rail network between now and then was the Portadown - Omagh - Strabane - Derry line, closed around 1965.

You can correct me if I'm wrong, but you are against the Casement redevelopment on the basis of access?

I have been to many, many matches in Clones and Casement, and the transport infrastructure around Casement is far superior to that of Clones (and I'm making this comparison, as Clones to me is the only genuine alternative). Belfast has frequent taxi and bus services to the City Centre that pass the Casement Park area, Park and Ride facilities to the City Centre from points along the motorway, and of course the motorway itself along with other main routes into that side of the City. There are also rail links and regular bus services. Throw in a couple of airports as well.

I have found (from personal experience) that getting out of Belfast after a big game is easier than Clones. Clones has hosted many big games - in response to your earlier question I have already pointed out that Casement held over 41,000 for the 1961 Ulster Final, and a crowd of around 35,000 for the Ulster semi-final of 1992. Someone else has pointed out that there was just under 28,000 for the Armagh v Derry semi-final in 2005, and I think there was a crowd of around 30,000 for the replay between Derry and Antrim in the Ulster semi-final of 2000.

These all point to evidence that Casement has hosted crowds of 30,000 plus without issues.

Just for interest by the way, I took this photo a few years back, before the floodlights were installed - the M1 is above the ground in the picture.


Thanks for the photo, but I drive past it along the M1 twice a day and have been to countless matches at Casement so i'm familiar with the set-up.

And i'm not against Casement on the basis of access at all. I'm just making the point that anywhere you have 35,000 people trying to leave at the same time, you'll have delays. I've been to Casement at matches with 20,000 people and it has taken me half an hour just to get out onto the motorway.

And you say there were "no issues" when Casement has hosted big matches. I never said there was. But i'm sure everybody wasn't in and out in 10 minutes either.
Personally the delay doesn't bother me - if it did i'd sit at home. But it's the main argument used by those who favour Casement over Clones.

ardmhachaabu

Maguire you are really missing the crux of it here which is the GAA may be getting £50M to redevelop Casement, not Clones from the British government

Transport links in and out of Belfast simply can't be compared to the roads in and out of Clones.
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something

Maguire01

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 08, 2010, 07:12:06 PM
Maguire you are really missing the crux of it here which is the GAA may be getting £50M to redevelop Casement, not Clones from the British government
I'm not missing the point at all. I understand exactly where the money is going and why. That doesn't mean the pros and cons of Casement can't be debated.

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on October 08, 2010, 07:12:06 PM
Transport links in and out of Belfast simply can't be compared to the roads in and out of Clones.
Maybe not, but my main point is that you're still going to have substantial delays at games in Casement. Or anywhere where you have 35,000 people all trying to get in or out at the same time. Yes, the motorway is handy when you get out onto it - a definite plus for Casement. But this idea that you hop in your car and drive straight out after a match at Casement is largely a myth.

Also, I'm not convinced as to how many do/would travel by rail to Casement - anyone got any details? And RTF even mentioned the airports which was very amusing, but pretty irrelevant for Ulster GAA games.