Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

Started by Joxer, October 06, 2010, 02:42:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

illdecide

i was always under the impression that these Government Grant schemes had to be spent (or a percentage) within a timescale? maybe someone else would know better. This Casement plan seems to be more hassle than its worth with too many objections from residents and now contractors.
Scrap the poxy thing and the Windsor Park upgrade and build it at the Maze...when it's complete they'll fall over each other to use it.
I can swim a little but i can't fly an inch

Wildweasel74

oh too many contractor try to argue their way into getting successful contracts when u get outbid or passed out in the tendering elimination. more times than enough things have to be retendered and that successful contractor meeting with a counter challenge from some else or the previous selected contractor, its a bollacks and had to deal with it twice in contracts we done!this thing not get off the ground for ages, then a last minute legal challenge come from residents to put another spanner in the works.

Maguire01

Quote from: Feckitt on June 22, 2013, 04:37:12 PM
With this legal delay on Casement, and some other legal delay on Windsor Park, is it completelely out of the question that the Maze Long Kesh site could be re-considered?
Yes, considering the money for Ravenhill has already been spent.

JPGJOHNNYG

Seems an odd thing to do by the construction firms as surely no other client will go near them in the future as they will fear a legal challenge everytime the firms dont get selected!! As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!

JPGJOHNNYG




Quote from: hardstation on June 25, 2013, 09:25:59 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 25, 2013, 08:33:06 AM
Seems an odd thing to do by the construction firms as surely no other client will go near them in the future as they will fear a legal challenge everytime the firms dont get selected!! As for the residents maybe the GAA should just move to a new site and sell the land to the council for a nice new abattoir or sewage works!!!!
Ye wha?
I mean that might give the residents something to actually moan about instead of constantly going on about the natural light being blocked by probably the lowest 40000 stadium on the planet any lower and the thing would be underground!

JPGJOHNNYG

Quote from: hardstation on June 25, 2013, 10:04:52 PM
Yeah, it's dead easy when it's at the bottom of someone else's garden.

Buy a house next to a stadium, airport, brown field site etc etc then you are a bit naive if you dont expect any sort of development at some point. If someone is still living there in a house built prior to Casement park then they have my fullest sympathy the rest took a risk when they bought their houses so tough luck I have a lot more sympathy for those who bought a house in the boom and then for whatever reason the council has slapped a compulsory purchase order on it at todays prices.
I think the GAA have been more than fair trying to accomodate the residents by taking off part of the roof and making the rest of the roof transparent but it looks like no matter what they do it will not be enough. I do agree with most here that the GAA should have avoided these problems in the first place by just developing a new site!

DennistheMenace

It will be a bigger white elephant than the millenium dome.

Walter Cronc

Quote from: DennistheMenace on June 26, 2013, 09:51:13 AM
It will be a bigger white elephant than the millenium dome.

Is the O2 not one of the biggest indoor arenas in the UK now??

NAG1

Quote from: DennistheMenace on June 26, 2013, 09:51:13 AM
It will be a bigger white elephant than the millenium dome.

The millenium dome is now one of the world's premier venues for events/ concerts/ conferences?


armaghniac

QuoteUnless you can honestly say that you would have no problem with a stadium like that being erected at the bottom of YOUR garden, you cannot criticise the residents for objecting to it being built at the bottom of their garden.

It is not quite as simple as that, if you choose to live near a stadium then that has certain implications, given that most places do not have  stadium next door.
Likewise people who live on a through road and then campaign to have it made into a cul-de-sac.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

JPGJOHNNYG

Quote from: hardstation on June 26, 2013, 09:37:09 AM
Again, it is very easy to have a "get over it" attitude when you live nowhere near it.

If it was built at the bottom of my garden, I'd be far from pleased.

As for buying a house beside Casement Park and not expecting development...my neighbour could take the notion to build a huge Christ the Redeemer statue out his back, it doesn't mean I have to accept it.

Unless you can honestly say that you would have no problem with a stadium like that being erected at the bottom of YOUR garden, you cannot criticise the residents for objecting to it being built at the bottom of their garden.

Pretty sure your christ the redeemer project wouldnt get very far with local planning whereas the upgrade of an existing stadium with all sorts of potential benefits to the local area may funnily enough get the thumbs up. People have a right to complain for sure but as I have already stated the GAA have already been quite open with the design process and have made alterations to benefit the local residents, I get the impression that the local residents wont be pleased until all the plans are shelved. I have not heard any moaning from residents around Ravenhill or Windsor - maybe they are being a bit more realistic about things. As for buying a house if noise or light was an issue then I wouldnt buy a house next to a site that had potential to be developed and a more realistic example you should have given is if a neighbour wanted to extend their house and if it was reasonable design then I would pretty much have to suck it up too whether I liked it or not

JPGJOHNNYG

Quote from: hardstation on June 26, 2013, 11:55:49 AM
Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 26, 2013, 11:48:23 AM
Quote from: hardstation on June 26, 2013, 09:37:09 AM
Again, it is very easy to have a "get over it" attitude when you live nowhere near it.

If it was built at the bottom of my garden, I'd be far from pleased.

As for buying a house beside Casement Park and not expecting development...my neighbour could take the notion to build a huge Christ the Redeemer statue out his back, it doesn't mean I have to accept it.

Unless you can honestly say that you would have no problem with a stadium like that being erected at the bottom of YOUR garden, you cannot criticise the residents for objecting to it being built at the bottom of their garden.
I get the impression that the local residents wont be pleased until all the plans are shelved.

You see, this is where you are wrong. The residents association isn't sitting there and knocking back everything the GAA are offering to do. They are putting forward proposals themselves which mainly comes down to lowering it at either side.

Nice try as stated earlier for the intended capacity the design is already very low. The playing field at Casement is sunken and that will be kept with the new ground also the Andy town road end will have an unusually large stand to again reduce the height of the rest of the stadium. Personally I cant see how they can lower the height of the sides even more unless they start slashing the capacity (they already have taken 2000 off to help accommodate concerns) which Im pretty sure the GAA will refuse

Now there must be literally dozens and dozens of grounds in England slap bang in the middle of dense residential areas that have had no problem being redeveloped over the years and Im sure they cast larger shadows over a greater number of residents than Casement ever will.

Check out the scale model for yourself regarding height

https://www.facebook.com/casementpark/photos_stream

compare it to say this

http://www.favhdwallpapers.com/anfield-stadium-hd-widescreen-wallpapers.html

or this

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/acidmit/22516805/89499/89499_original.jpg


Jeepers Creepers

Have Liverpool FC not started a program of buying the houses around Anfield?

drici

No chances left Ulster Council.
Now youse can go to Hell.

drici

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2010, 11:04:30 AM
I think people are missing the point of this discussion. The money is going to Casement end of story. What we should be discussing is what approach the GAA will take.

Will they do the right thing and build a top class stadium capable of hosting a wide range of events(small version of croke park)?
50 million is the amount from Stormont but several papers in the past have mentioned a budget of 100million for the stadium. If this was indeed the money involved then the potential is huge. To quote one of the above bloggers the stadium would be 40000 with 32000 seats and 8000 terrace - this is ideal. All those moaning about standing - well guess what you stand at the terrace, the vast majority of people like to sit and have the option to stand when they want! I would like to think that the whole stadium is roofed as the GAA seem to think Ireland is in the tropics and that it never rains - we need covered stadia even the terrace. The terrace should also be easily fitted with temporary seating if needed.
If done right then not only will the big Ulster GAA games be played there but as it would be by far and away the best stadium in Ulster  it could be used for a wide range of other events and concerts and maybe even the odd Heineken cup match earning Ulser GAA even more money!

The main arguments against Casement are unfounded. Locarion - in the city where hundreds of thousands of people live - as oppossed to a field in the back of beyond. Beside the M1 - okay can be a bottle neck at the juction but other options such as park and ride alleviate this, also potentially plenty of parking at Boucher or Musgrave park both of which only a short walk away. I think I would be right in saying nowhere in the 9 counties is more than 2 1/2 hours drive away.
Another argument against the development is that there is no room around the stadium - you can say that about anywhere - look at the previous aerial shots of Croke - pretty tight fit. Most of the people oppossed to this development were probably against the upgrade of Croke or Lansdowne also and now look at the facilities there - pretty impressive not to mention the knock on effect such developments have on the local area and certainly West Belfast is crying out for investment

My greatest fear is the GAA will do the half hearted effort they have done many times  in the past. Take a look at the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick for a modern stadium it looks like it was built in the 1920's not to mention again the fact that it has no cover at all - at least put a simple roof on - even somethng like the new RDS stand is better than nothing.
A similar GAA project at the moment is the new Pairc ui chaoimh. That project has gone in 2 years form a state of the art 60000 stadium to eclipse Lansdowne road to suddenly the more modest plan of a new two tier stand on one side and upgrade of the terracing -  :-[

Lets hope we have the stadium we need/deserve - interesting times ahead!

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2010, 12:27:47 PM
Is there even a shred of evidence that the GAA would allow the stadium be used like this or that any of the users would want it?

No but surely it makes financial sense. The stadium is going to be upgraded anyway so seeing its located in a big city then why not look at other options. If the GAA buried its head in the sand and built it soley for the Ulster final then yes it would be a massive waste of money and a white elephant and I would agree with you then that they should leave the stadium as it is. However a new stadium run well will pay for itself

Concert promoters will be reluctant to bring any big concerts into West Belfast for the fear of alienating half of the community.

Times have moved on and will hopefully continue to do so. We all have to try and live together at some stage. Obviously located in a Nationalist area but also right beside the mixed Balmoral area and not very far from the Kings Hall which served as Belfasts main concert venue for decades

Ulster rugby will never have the need to use Casement regardless if the GAA was to change its rules. Is it there really any need for another white elephant which will be full maybe once/twice a year. Yes redevelop Casement but not at a cost of £100 million.

It wont do any harm to ask them. Im sure Ulster rugby wouldnt mind a share of the bigger profits they would get from a 40000 crowd as oppossed to 15000 crowd at Ravenhill.

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 04, 2010, 05:36:54 PM
Ha ha reading most of these posts you would think everyone in west belfast was a hood. I never knew GAA supporters to be so snobish. Scrap the Casement plans judging by the comments here are only option is a new stadium in Cultra! ;D

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 04, 2010, 06:46:20 PM
All joking aside if casement is developed it will hopefully awake the sleeping giant that is Antrim and get the locals behind the antrim football team - a lot easier to go to Casement for a GAA match than the round trip to parkhead every other week to watch Celtic.

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on December 10, 2010, 10:22:14 AM
I am totally in support of Casement being redeveloped but a roof is a non-starter. The Millenium stadium is amazing but a GAA pitch is bigger and Im sure with a larger roof the costs will be exponential. The GAA sure cant even be bothered to place a standard roof on their modern stadia to cover the spectators ,(sports ground limerick for example) nevermind covering the whole playing surface as well.
If it was to happen the capacity would need to be on a power with croke park otherwise the roof would be too low and I would guess such a stadium would cost in todays money about a billion not 100 million rumoured for Casement so sorry lads forget it!


Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 22, 2011, 11:07:07 AM
Anyone know when we get to see some plans? Does anybody know when work will start or finish. The same goes for the new Pairc ui chaoimh.

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on March 23, 2011, 09:13:00 AM

Bingo

I think a 40000 seater stadium in Belfast has potential if marketed well and opened to other sports in the future (doubt that will happen soon but you never know). I agree with you though that the GAA doesnt seem to have thought things out properly. Their other big project is a 60000 seater stadium in Cork (why so big)
The GAA should have maybe one high quality 35000-40000 stadium in each province and should have maybe consulted the IRFU years ago about joint ventures. The remaining stadiums should have smaller capacities but better facilities. Instead the GAA wants to builld 32 white elephants around the country with huge capacities but terrible facilities.
The perfect example of the mismanagement is the dump that is the ''new'' gaelic grounds in Limerick. Why build a modern stadium in the West of Ireland with no roof! Secondly Limerick isnt a big place so why didnt the IRFU and GAA agree to build one 35000 high quality stadium that would have been used regularly and been easily maintained (Thomond park is good but to me feels unfinished).
l

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on July 08, 2011, 11:58:58 AM
Anybody got any news, any plans? At this rate it will ready in 40 years time. The same for parc ui chaoimh. Why the silence?

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 03, 2011, 09:51:56 PM
Still no sign of any plans. If work is to start in April then Im already worried by the lack of planning or forward thinking. Similar problem with Pairc ui Chaoimh. A couple of so called plans in the Cork Echo but to say they were sketchy was an understatement and this was compounded by a member of the county council on TG4 who was only able to confirm that the stadium was going to have a capacity of 40-60000 will cost 30-70 million, may or may not have terracing and maybe opened to other sports - Is this serious how can you not know more details when you are hoping to start digging in a few months. Half hearted uninspired gaelic grounds limerick style mark 2 and 3 stadia on the way. I hope Im proved wrong

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 07:21:43 AM
Ok managed to find a couple of pictures of the plans

https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/2846525827/beaaa39cd694783239c4ccb3ea75dbbc.jpeg

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/A7lk1-YCEAEDf6C.jpg:large

Found these plans on casement residents twitter account who seem pretty pi$$ed off about not being informed about whats going on. To be fair I thought there was information up at the leisure centre aswell as a Q&A open day. My quick research also found a letter that had been sent to the residents so I dont really know what they are talking about! Reading their comments they dont seem too happy with how the stadium looks either.
What do you think yourselves?
I do think the Andytown road end looks odd but it may grow on me.  Im not so sure about the yellow its a bit much even for an Antrim man , the seats yes, but the rest of it can we not find something more neutral.

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 09:33:59 AM
I think the green area is corporate. The plans show the media area now to be up at the Andytown road end. Will they use all or part of the old one?, seems a waste seeing it was only constructed a few years back. I also remeber in the Irish news a couple of years ago talk about a footbridge over the motoway linking the satdium to musgrave parking to improve accessand paking etc but that has now been shelved. Posted a new thread on skyscrapercity on the subject feel free to add any other picures when they are released.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1563744

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 09:45:26 AM
sorry fogrot to add Im pretty sure the pitch will remain where it is as the seating plan looks identical to the existing layout of Casement also the article I attched the other day from Belfastmediagroup states that retaill units including ticket office and merchandise shop will be located at the Andytown road end so no room to move the pitch in that direction as for the colour of the walls -  these days you just dont know lol.


Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 19, 2012, 10:46:44 AM
The redesign of Pairc ui Chaoimh has very few details as yet and evertime I read any plans they seem to change. Here are some early design pictures from a while pack but they dont really give anything away

http://www.archiseek.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10604

http://www.archiseek.com/forum/download/file.php?id=10603

The last I read the project will be completed by 2016. It will have a capacity of 45000 which will have 2 covered seated 2 tier stands. The ends will be left open and at the moment Im not sure if they will be seated or terraced. The project will cost 67 million euro which seems a lot considering the actual work being done (Celtic park only cost 40 million a few years ago and although not perfect is light years ahead of what is being planned here). It may be a missed opportunity. I think if you spend that much money you should have top class stadium

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on November 20, 2012, 06:36:27 AM
The walk is exactly a mile so not bad I think the bigger problem is how regular the trains are. As for Balmoral station I lived nearby when I was younger the area is fine and pretty mixed, if anything in the last 20 years it has actually become quite nationalist so you would be unlucky to have any problems.

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 12, 2013, 10:05:40 AM
Very early plans had a bridge over the motorway and that would have helped ''neutralise'' the venue somewhat but as it stand I agree a large % of the population would feel uncomfortable going to Casement to watch a concert. That is probably my main concern over the site much of the other negative comments are rubbish you only have to look at the success of Croke park. A stadium squeezed into a tight site with few links in what was a run down part of town

Quote from: JPGJOHNNYG on June 12, 2013, 05:04:17 PM
What is it with the parking do people want to park their car at the front gate or something??? There are any number of places to park if you are prepared to walk a little with places like Boucher and Kings hall less than a mile away. Go to most of the top grounds in England and I guarantee you if you want to take your car to the ground then be prepared to walk a little. I think this could work and as for the residents I think they are being completely unrealistic looking at the plans I cant think of any other 40000 stadium that looks so low and yet they are worried by its height!