Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[Hardy]

Looks well, still not a fan of the roof not being completed the whole way round!

I wonder if the NIMBY lobby gave out about the height of a roofed end.

Yes, roof only dropped because of protests by residents in apartments on Andytown road.

Architects confirmed on skyscraper architecture forum that the only reason the modern optimal bowl design isn't being used is because site is too constrained.

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be clawed for several hours on event days in order to caste dispersal space for crowds.

Much of the cost is to be made up of creating underground parking under the pitch, again because of a lack of space.

Isn't it obvious that the site is simply too small.
Unless they buy all the surrounding houses, we'll end up with a lot less than we should have got for the money.

I have no idea what this means.

[Eamonnca1]

Gotta laugh at people living in cities giving out about about the construction of tall buildings. That's like living in the country and giving out about the occasional smell of manure.

Away and live on Rathlin Island if you don't want to see any urban progress.

[Saffrongael]

Gotta laugh at people living in cities giving out about about the construction of tall buildings. That's like living in the country and giving out about the occasional smell of manure.

Away and live on Rathlin Island if you don't want to see any urban progress.

"Tall buildings" are not usually built in residential areas, on people's doorsteps.

[snatter]

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be clawed for several hours on event days in order to caste dispersal space for crowds.

I have no idea what this means.

woops, I was a bit slack on the swype there. Should have read

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be closed for several hours on event days in order to create dispersal space for crowds.

[snatter]

Yes its too tight and infrastructure is poor enough but there is no other option for the money to be used, It's Casement and nowhere else.

A half truth at best. The funding conditions say that the money must be spent on one single stadium.
There's nothing to say that the single stadium must be at Casement or any other site.

It's the GAA that chose Caement, after having been given a bit of a bum steer by consultants to say that it could accommodate a 40k fully seated fully covered stadium. Clearly it can't.

And the constrained size means that the finished result will be far inferior to what could have been built on a properly sized site.

Inferior in terms of capacity.

Inferior in terms of comfort - ffs what's worse than sitting in the rain.

Inferior views of pitch because the site can't support the modern bowl design.

Inferior in terms of paying for upkeep - if we're not able to hold concerts, we, the gaa supporters, will end up paying a lot more for the thing. The wrap round bowl design also means less room for specators to circulate and spend money on bars/cafes, etc. That costs us too.

Inferior design - instead of a landmark building that advertises the GAA's strengthend presence in Belfast, we get something low rise, tucked in behind housing. The stands will be different sizes, and the ground will look more like a 1980's stadium.

the likes of concerts I'm sure will seem difficult but plenty of stadiums that have concerts and they don't have problems, Croke Park being one of them

There won't be any concerts if the residents object. If they can object to the roof, they'll object to concerts, not only because of the noise and crowds, but for the fact that the main arterial A'town Rd (meant to be getting the rapid transport thing) would be closed for hours.

-------

In principle, I fully support the stadium being in Ulster's largest city, but it only makes sense if the stadium is on a suitable site to maximise income.

Can anybody think of any decent sized sites in Gtr Belfast that would be more suitable? In the UK and here in Cork, city authorities have no problems handing parks over  to allow new stadia to be built. They see it as good for the city as a whole.  The same should be done here.

I can't see any good reason for not pausing this project in order to get a better site, preferably gifted by the city. Then we'd get a better stadium, and it could pay for its upkeep in the long term.

As things stand, after the initial buzz dies down, people will soon come to realise that the GAA should have built somewhere else to get a better result.

[Main Street]

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be clawed for several hours on event days in order to caste dispersal space for crowds.

I have no idea what this means.

woops, I was a bit slack on the swype there. Should have read

Also confirmed that main Andytown Rd needs to be closed for several hours on event days in order to create dispersal space for crowds.

If only Andytown Rd could be 'clawed'.
'dispersal space' is an interesting term.

A 38,000 seater stadium for ca Eur 85m sounds like a good deal, compared to the Lansdowne rd 55,000 for Eur380m.

[Milltown Row2]

An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium. other areas could be at the top of the Mona by pass, the travellers have gone and there is plenty space with not too much housing.

The Falls Park could be an option also

Belfast is built up in most areas so it's always going to be difficult to keep people happy

[snatter]

An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium......

Couldn't agree more. No brainer.
It's, what 500m away from Casement, just the other side of the motorway junction, and it's

• closer to the railway stations
• has no neighbouring residents to object to the height of the stadium, allowing everybody to have an optimal view with a roof over their heads
• has no neighbouring residents to object to holding concerts
• is big enough to allow for safe dispersal of crowds without having to close main roads/rapid tranport busways for hours at a time
• big enough to cater for required parking without having to pour millions into the ground to build an underground car park
• will attract more custom, and still be close enough to West Belfast to generate the mooted economic benefits
• council owned, so should in theory be able to acquire easily (or preferably freely, possibly in return for allowing one non - gaa event per year?)

All SF/SDLP/Alliance city councillors should be thinking about the benefits a 40k, truly covered modern bowl design could bring to Belfast city.

[Jeepers Creepers]

An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium......

Couldn't agree more. No brainer.
It's, what 500m away from Casement, just the other side of the motorway junction, and it's

• closer to the railway stations

not by much

• has no neighbouring residents to object to the height of the stadium, allowing everybody to have an optimal view with a roof over their heads

row of houses facing, as many as Moreland objectors and a hospital. Add residents from a couple of hundred apartments in Musgrave manor

• has no neighbouring residents to object to holding concerts- Musgrave Hospital
  
  • is big enough to allow for safe dispersal of crowds without having to close main roads/rapid tranport busways for hours at a time
  Stockmans lane is busier than A-town road
  
  • big enough to cater for required parking without having to pour millions into the ground to build an underground car park
  maybe
  • will attract more custom, and still be close enough to West Belfast to generate the mooted economic benefits
  maybe
  • council owned, so should in theory be able to acquire easily (or preferably freely, possibly in return for allowing one non - gaa event per year?)
  parks might be protected land.
  All SF/SDLP/Alliance city councillors should be thinking about the benefits a 40k, truly covered modern bowl design could bring to Belfast city.
  

[/list]

[NAG1]

An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium......

Couldn't agree more. No brainer.
It's, what 500m away from Casement, just the other side of the motorway junction, and it's

• closer to the railway stations

not by much

• has no neighbouring residents to object to the height of the stadium, allowing everybody to have an optimal view with a roof over their heads

row of houses facing, as many as Moreland objectors and a hospital. Add residents from a couple of hundred apartments in Musgrave manor

• has no neighbouring residents to object to holding concerts- Musgrave Hospital
  
  • is big enough to allow for safe dispersal of crowds without having to close main roads/rapid tranport busways for hours at a time
  Stockmans lane is busier than A-town road
  
  • big enough to cater for required parking without having to pour millions into the ground to build an underground car park
  maybe
  • will attract more custom, and still be close enough to West Belfast to generate the mooted economic benefits
  maybe
  • council owned, so should in theory be able to acquire easily (or preferably freely, possibly in return for allowing one non - gaa event per year?)
  parks might be protected land.
  All SF/SDLP/Alliance city councillors should be thinking about the benefits a 40k, truly covered modern bowl design could bring to Belfast city.
  

[/list]

The fact that they couldnt agree, is how this project and the other two came about in the first place!

[snatter]

An area could have been Musgrave park, straight off the motorway and a large enough area for that type of stadium......

Couldn't agree more. No brainer.
It's, what 500m away from Casement, just the other side of the motorway junction, and it's

• closer to the railway stations

not by much still closer

• has no neighbouring residents to object to the height of the stadium, allowing everybody to have an optimal view with a roof over their heads

row of houses facing, as many as Moreland objectors and a hospital. Add residents from a couple of hundred apartments in Musgrave manor
  None of whom are anywhere near as close to the stadium as Casement residents are. Potential for huge buffer zone. Hospital is almost certainly to be downgraded/closed over next few years. Any remainder health functions could be carried out on much smaller site.

• has no neighbouring residents to object to holding concerts- Musgrave Hospital    Hospital is almost certainly to be downgraded/closed over next few years. Any remainder health functions could be carried out on much smaller site, or even share site of stadium
  
  • is big enough to allow for safe dispersal of crowds without having to close main roads/rapid tranport busways for hours at a time
  Stockmans lane is busier than A-town road  perhaps, BUT there's no need to close it as the crowds can safely disperse within the confines  of Musgrave Pk itself
  
  • big enough to cater for required parking without having to pour millions into the ground to build an underground car park
  maybe
  • will attract more custom, and still be close enough to West Belfast to generate the mooted economic benefits
  maybe
  • council owned, so should in theory be able to acquire easily (or preferably freely, possibly in return for allowing one non - gaa event per year?)
  parks might be protected land.  Already zoned recreational, any further change of use would be approved in context of overall planning gain of having a top class regioanl stadium
  All SF/SDLP/Alliance city councillors should be thinking about the benefits a 40k, truly covered modern bowl design could bring to Belfast city.
  

[/list]

[snatter]

The fact that they couldnt agree, is how this project and the other two came about in the first place!

Not true, SF/SDLP & Alliance (&GAA,IRFU and even IFA) were all in favour of shared stadium. Dissenters were alliance of NI Supporters clubs, DUP, & UUP.

SF,SDLP and Alliance now hold balance of power, and should do what's right for Belfast as a city,which in this case is to facilitate a top class, fully covered stadium, that could, with the GAA's approval be used for other events, that would financially benefit the GAA and Belfast city as a whole.

And for clarity, Casement will not be a top class stadium. The constrained site guarantees it.

[rrhf]

Lads there are 100 different ways to do anything. Just because we have a notion that our way is the best please act with a little humility and assume other options have been taken into account and assessed. Some people have worked long and hard to make casement an option. I suspect that the entire process will be resolved with some cold hard cash.

[NAG1]

The fact that they couldnt agree, is how this project and the other two came about in the first place!

Not true, SF/SDLP & Alliance (&GAA,IRFU and even IFA) were all in favour of shared stadium. Dissenters were alliance of NI Supporters clubs, DUP, & UUP.

SF,SDLP and Alliance now hold balance of power, and should do what's right for Belfast as a city,which in this case is to facilitate a top class, fully covered stadium, that could, with the GAA's approval be used for other events, that would financially benefit the GAA and Belfast city as a whole.

And for clarity, Casement will not be a top class stadium. The constrained site guarantees it.

I was referring simply to the MLA's/ Councillors in general, that they couldnt agree.

Casement does not need to be a world class stadium as it will never be hosting world class events, it was a project by Ulster Council which pays lip service to their pathetic attitude to the second biggest city and promotion of the games within it.

[snatter]

please act with a little humility

Afaics we have - I can see no personally directed posts here, never mind abusive ones. The purpose of a discussion board is to discuss, express opinion, preferably backed up with some clearly reasoned logic, etc.

More open and reasoned discussion about the pros and cons can only be healthy.
If nobody questions, then you can easliy end up with an Emperors New Clothes situation.

It's important to make positive contributions - hence Milltown / my own promotion of the Musgrave Pk site. It is notable that there haven't been that many supportive posts of the current scheme, maybe a new stadium with no roof makes that difficult.

assume other options have been taken into account and assessed.

The Ulster Council did tell us that external consultants did undertake a site assessment exercise. Whether that included Musgrave, or other Belfast sites, we don't know because the findings of the consultation weren't published.

What we do know, because the Ulster council did tell us, is that the assessment picked Casement on the basis that a  40k fully covered stadium could be built there.

We now know that assessment is wrong, the site is too constrained to deliver what it was meant to deliver. The original spec called for an exemplar best of breed landmark building. We now know that the site is too small to deliver that as well. There's a myriad of other drawbacks that all stem from the inadequate site size.

Some people have worked long and hard to make Casement an option.

Nobody could seriously question the commitment and devotion of the GAA figures behind the project. They haven't done anything fundamentally wrong.  They were wrongly advised that the site could host a 40k fully covered stadium. It can't.

It's my opinion that, now we know that there will never be a roof over the A'town Rd end,  the project should now be halted for further review. If planning problems delay the project, we should push back on the artificial spending deadline imposed, to  give time to explore other sites. Both within and beyond Belfast, if Belfast CC don't see fit to grant us a site.

I suspect that the entire process will be resolved with some cold hard cash.

That would be a retrogade step. Cities, and communities within them should be fighting  to get our stadia, given the economic benefits they bring. Bribing residents opens the floodgates for long term extortion. Either they want us, or they don't. If they don't, we should pack our bags and build on a better site where our investment is truly welcome.

We should spend our cash on building good facilities that will serve the GAA community for decades to come. The needs of the GAA should be paramount.