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[But I also accept that I can't be 100% certain of both of those things]

Is all notion of people just accepting what their county players do on the pitch at face value gone and is it all going to just be partisan bias and see what we want to see at this stage?

Strange I was thinking the exact opposite with a complete refusal from many posters (not all) to accept that there may be an alternative point of view with some even attacking the poster rather than debating the merits. I suppose this is the other side of the same coin and likely just as influenced by county loyalties and bias.

But there is no actual credible evidence for an alternative point of view here, this is the key point, no? Are we into the realm of alternative facts now? This smacks of a defence lawyer trying to place doubt on clear evidence as it's the only course of action remaining that they have in an effort to try and clear a guilty party.

Sean Kelly's antics in the Monaghan league game were raised earlier in this thread as some form of a defection tactic from, or justification for, what we all saw on Sunday, I was disappointed in Kelly's behaviour at the time and said as much, they did him and the Galway jersey no credit at all. There was some minimal contact in that incident and while we could have made excuses on the back of that, in an attempt to maintain some sort of defence for "our man" it flies in the face of the reality of the situation, he was barely touched and dived. It was what we all saw. Just like it was with that tr**p Forker on Sunday.

No one is so naïve as to not expect that judgements are going to be clouded by bias in certain instances, there will of course be times when things aren't exactly clear cut and arguments can be made either way, it would be disingenuous to think otherwise. I don't think this instance is one of those times.

I honestly don't accept that. To use the two most recent examples. I fully accept that my position is that Forker deliberately punches and then attempts to punch Kelly in the head. But I also accept that I can't be 100% certain of both of those things. The first video when slowed down seems to show a deliberate punch initially. However when at normal speed I can't be certain that Forker isn't making some kind of bad attempt on the ball. There's also sudden head movement which I would have expected. So there clearly is credible evidence for an alternative point of view.

Likewise whilst I think the second one is an attempted punch, i can see the other argument that I don't see any contact with Kelly's head, nor does Kelly's head move to avoid contact and Kelly doesn't flinch before or complain afterwards. In addition Forker who is very near by, would have been unhindered and likely wouldn't have missed had he been attempting to punch.

So I can totally understand why others may have different opinions on the incident. But the evidence simply isn't as clear as you make it out to be.

It's similar with the O'Neill incident. Yes his knees are undoubtedly on Quinn's head but I've yet to see footage of them being there without Quinn pulling him by the shirt and legs. So whilst I can understand why people were saying it was red I honestly don't agree nor do I think the video evidence is incontrovertible.

No need for alternative facts or anything of the like.

Only someone with omniscience can be 100% certain of anything in life which seems to be your bar here in the face of what's plain to be seen. I don't accept what you've outlined in this instance so we'll have to disagree and leave it be because there's little else to add when the evidence is as clear as I perceive it to be and as unclear as you do. Best of luck to ye for the rest of the championship.

Both teams probably threw away any chance of getting to the AI final last Sunday given the road left to travel now, hard to know which was the worse butchering of the prime position each team was in to top their groups, Mayo's probably a more spectacular collapse but Galway's just as bad really given the context.

we got the worst team out of the hat anyway, Mayo are a really good team and Galway are in serious bother with the injury situation.
If Comer and Kelly are unavailable I don't see how Galway can get a result, they are just too important to the team, along with the underrated McHugh. If Comer plays last Sunday and I think we have the feet up this . Mayo's record in knock out matches between the two counties when it's do or die as well is formidable. Hopefully this match will see Galway making a real stand and not a 2019 like situation.
Regardless, the eternal question remains "will Galway bate Mayo?".

Is all notion of people just accepting what their county players do on the pitch at face value gone and is it all going to just be partisan bias and see what we want to see at this stage?

Strange I was thinking the exact opposite with a complete refusal from many posters (not all) to accept that there may be an alternative point of view with some even attacking the poster rather than debating the merits. I suppose this is the other side of the same coin and likely just as influenced by county loyalties and bias.

But there is no actual credible evidence for an alternative point of view here, this is the key point, no? Are we into the realm of alternative facts now? This smacks of a defence lawyer trying to place doubt on clear evidence as it's the only course of action remaining that they have in an effort to try and clear a guilty party.

Sean Kelly's antics in the Monaghan league game were raised earlier in this thread as some form of a defection tactic from, or justification for, what we all saw on Sunday, I was disappointed in Kelly's behaviour at the time and said as much, they did him and the Galway jersey no credit at all. There was some minimal contact in that incident and while we could have made excuses on the back of that, in an attempt to maintain some sort of defence for "our man" it flies in the face of the reality of the situation, he was barely touched and dived. It was what we all saw. Just like it was with that tr**p Forker on Sunday.

No one is so naïve as to not expect that judgements are going to be clouded by bias in certain instances, there will of course be times when things aren't exactly clear cut and arguments can be made either way, it would be disingenuous to think otherwise. I don't think this instance is one of those times.

Is all notion of people just accepting what their county players do on the pitch at face value gone and is it all going to just be partisan bias and see what we want to see at this stage?

[Don't get me wrong I think both were punches but I'm not sure there's enough evidence there that would stand up to scrutiny were retrospective action be taken. I think the first it's too difficult to say conclusively that was anything other than accidental.]

It was a punch.

A punch or two ?

The first one you perhaps could make an argument for it being accidental.
The 2nd one for me was blatant.

Don't get me wrong I think both were punches but I'm not sure there's enough evidence there that would stand up to scrutiny were retrospective action be taken. I think the first it's too difficult to say conclusively that was anything other than accidental.


On the second one I don't think it's clear he makes contact so I'd not be surprised if no further action is taken because attempted strikes are much harder to prove than actual strikes because you have to demonstrate intent.

Disagree entirely that the first punch is a difficult call, it's very clear for all to see the intent there, I honestly can't believe the usage of the word accidental in relation to it, it's not going to put Galway up or down at this point if nothing is done so I don't care but the denial of what is obvious is an absurdity.

Lads trying to defend Forker here ffs. "He was clearly putting his hand on the ground". Catch yourselves on.

That's exactly what he was doing

Would you ever f**k away off for Christ's sake. He puts his hand on the ground, with a closed fist, with his arm fully extended, aye? To what end?

You've never fallen down in a tackle and put your hand out to support yourself I take it. I think it's you who needs to f**k away off kiddo

He was already on the f**king ground, what falling exactly was he doing?!

Absolutely blatant strike and then follow up attempt to strike. Trying to defend the indefensible.

The video is so clear and it's so obvious that I can't really understand why there's just not an acceptance of what happened, instead of people trying to somehow lie to themselves about it and convince themselves it was something else.
It won't effect the result yesterday at this stage and it won't make any difference to whether the GAA decide to pursue it or not for some retrospective action.

That was a catastrophic loss for Galway in the general scheme of things, such nonsense about "business end". Dubs and Kerry turned up walloping all before them today, no surer sign we're in the business end now.

Too much nonsense talk about Galway and the panel, started that game yesterday with only 9 starters from last years final and next week will be similar. The draw hasn't helped my optimism levels either, didn't look great for Sean Kelly either.

Patrick Kelly wasn't too far away from me on the terrace yesterday, likes of himself, Comer, McHugh, Molloy and Silke are really missed.
I felt last night like the season is as good as done given the position we've ended up in and the road that's ahead of them, Galway badly needed the week off to try and get key players recovery time, instead of that, the players are left having to play a Mayo team that has had Galway's number in knockout games going back a long time. If Galway can get to a semi-final (and that's the bar for these players now) from here, given the injuries and the schedule, it will be a greater accomplishment than making the final last year.

Sean Kelly is the heartbeat of that Galway team, can't fault him for the poor result yesterday, and is an incalculable loss if unavailable. Mannion looked a bit lost out there, the pick up off the ground that led to a 1st half Armagh point summed up his day. A better move in retrospect might have been McDaid to replace McHugh at HB and Maher to MF.
Without Comer as the focal point up front we look blunt, Burke hasn't been at it, amazed he stayed on for the duration yesterday, he's there to link play and the biggest opportunity of all he couldn't execute a standard enough return hand pass to Walsh for an attacking chance with Rafferty miles outside the goal. Burke had good performance against Rossies but outside of that, is playing more like he was in 2019 which isn't good. Heaney isn't having as much of an impact as usual, the dip in his performances is noteworthy as while he's unheralded outside the county he has been one of Galway's top men. Cooke made a mistake with the way the ball bounced on the kick pass back at the end but outside of that he has been one of Galway's best performers in the group stage. Tierney kicked a couple but isn't imposing himself on matches like you'd have wanted to see after the Connacht championship and league. Finnerty has been injured all the time.

We're just not scoring enough up front and Walsh is only playing middling at best, his decision making on the ball and free taking (which was immaculate in 2022 and one of the big reasons we made the final) have regressed to an unbelievable extent. Notable that he isn't taking kicks off the ground at the moment at all, I'd wonder if there's something up that we don't know about, if that's the case let Cooke and Tierney take them off the deck where needed. Conroy and Walsh had both ballooned the ball up with two similar attempts from the same position already in the second half. When presented with a crucial free at the death yesterday from a similar position, it might have been advisable to go off the ground to better deal with the tricky cross field wind which had proved problematic. Instead we got a carbon copy of the two earlier efforts, which was short and didn't curl in, summed up the day.

Kickout issues have been done to death but it's the speed of the restarts that are an issue as well as the inability of Galway to manufacture space for players, if we had a good system we wouldn't have lost yesterday as too many in the 2nd half became long ball 50/50s which we came out the wrong side of. Several times, and it was really obvious from being at the match, Galway players had made the initial run into a pocket of space and the ball needed to be kicked immediately to them, instead there is hesitation and the moment for that quick 30/40 metre clip to the player is gone. At one point Heaney made a run and the ball wasn't played for an easy, unmarked catch, in fact there was enough time for him to have to run back out and then back again at pace to nearly the 21 when the ball was clipped out and he got it. The difference is that instead of getting the ball 40 metres out with some Armagh players already bypassed, Galway now had the entire Armagh team to get through. These are the small margins that make up a loss.

Maybe I'm being overly critical of a one point loss but in the context of the year that was seismic, Tyrone couldn't do us the favour of a narrow win in the other game (how good have Westmeath been though? Hats off to them, unlucky not to have progressed from the group) so that result has derailed the season altogether.
Can Galway win next week? They can but given the injuries and the form upfront it will be a massive ask, I thought Armagh were decent yesterday but really and truly, Galway had more than enough of the ball to win that match, serious contenders wouldn't have come out the wrong side of it. Taking that and the Westmeath and Tyrone performances into account there doesn't look to be an AI in them despite the talk from some quarters, the two big boys started to stretch the legs yesterday although Kerry have been blessed with Mayo's collapse against Cork, mad how life's winners always seem get whatever luck is going even when they aren't involved.

The advantage of finishing top of the group is really being seen now, that one point difference yesterday has transformed the trajectory of both Galway and Armagh's seasons.
Galway to beat Mayo without Comer and Kelly is a big ask. Shane Walsh is way off form as well, no matter what squad depth you try and build, if you're top class difference makers are injured or out of form then it's tough to get results.

I thought Sean O Maolchiarain was fit again. Could he not fit in the full back line ? Comer is more difficult to replace.

He's not going to be next nor near the level required for Senior IC after such a long layoff, same with the like of Molloy getting back for a few minutes with the club, throwing these lads in wouldn't be fair on them or a plausible option. If Mulkerrin is starting the next day we're in serious, serious bother.

[it could hardly be deemed a punch]

https://twitter.com/bennytierney/status/1670568213141176321

Not great viewing... I can't make out which player threw the box??

Like not even close to the ball, that's pure filth, cheek to say it wasn't even a penalty 

I don't think anybody claimed that it wasn't a penalty but the foul was by Grugan. The ball was there to be played, he just mistimed the tackle but it could hardly be deemed a punch as some have suggested and there were no complaints from Kelly or Galway about it. Its mostly just fans of other counties (mostly Tyrone) that seem to have been triggered by that Armagh win yesterday.   

Are you for real? He went for it twice.

https://twitter.com/bennytierney/status/1670568213141176321

Not great viewing... I can't make out which player threw the box??

Didn't see that at the match, what a tr**p.

The advantage of finishing top of the group is really being seen now, that one point difference yesterday has transformed the trajectory of both Galway and Armagh's seasons.
Galway to beat Mayo without Comer and Kelly is a big ask. Shane Walsh is way off form as well, no matter what squad depth you try and build, if you're top class difference makers are injured or out of form then it's tough to get results.

[Hard to see us make late July after today unfortunately]

We are in the preliminary QFs on merit!  That was a shambles of a performance there today.  Our inability to convert good goal chances has been a serious problem all year and it reared its ugly head again today.  Missed a few kickable frees also.  Regardless of the draw, we will have our hands full with whoever we get for next weekend and that will be made a hell of a lot tougher if neither Kelly or Comer are available.  It will be a serious test of our so called squad depth!  Hard to see us make late July after today unfortunately.

Best of luck to Armagh for the remainder of the championship.

We're goosed given the lads out, that loss feels like a championship ender tonight, absolutely sick after it. Not playing well as is up front and facing into a rested Kerry, Derry or Dubs for the dreaded 3rd week on the bounce even if we win the preliminary Q final? Forget it.

That was a catastrophic loss for Galway in the general scheme of things, such nonsense about "business end". Dubs and Kerry turned up walloping all before them today, no surer sign we're in the business end now.

We have made it extremely tough for ourselves now.
Today was further proof - as if it were needed - that we are not the same team without Damo.

You can sing that, there is no focus up front without him.
I'd put any money on Galway Mayo from the draw for next week and given the injuries to key players and that sucker punch today, will be some test of this group. There's fine lines but that was as brutal a one point loss today as you'd get without being knocked out.

Best of luck to Armagh the rest of the way, great result for ye.

Rarely been as livid leaving a match, forget any talk about the ref, Galway absolutely just fucked that game away.themselves.
Missed peno, 3 missed scorable frees, Burke cannot find a return pass to let Walsh through with the goal open and Rafferty scrambling back, crazy bad decision making up front, balls picked up off the ground. Mental. There's no cut up top at all without Comer. Talk of squad depth looks overblown after today. Only one point in it, but I'm the context of the season, it's everything.
That missed free at the end is the difference between having a chance, and only a slim chance the way Galway are playing, and no chance at the big show.
Winners of Sam will be either Kerry, Dublin, Derry or Armagh, I'd give the 2nd and 3rd teams none at this stage, players are going to get knocks again next week and it's too much of a hard schedule after the games this week.
Mayo's implosion was even worse given they were 6 points up and Rossies lost as well, bad day for Connacht.