We had a penalty given against us on Friday night for a foot block. The opposition player took a shot from well outside outside our 21. One of our corner backs standing in the square stuck out his leg and stopped the ball. The ref gave a penalty. The player who stuck the leg out was 6/7 meters from the man who took the shot. Was this a penatly? I always thought a foot block was only given when players where in close proximity.
That is not a penalty. Sure if that were the case a goalie would never be able to save the ball with his feet at all.
AM,
i would have assumed it was only given if he was in close proximity as it could cause a nasty injury if the player follows through and hits his leg/shin/foot on the offending players studs, but not from that distance!! i personally don't know the ruling of a foot block, and as a goalkeeper i would like to know, as i may get a yellow card for making a save some night in a game, which could eventually actually lose us the game, rather than win it for us!!
No way is that a penalty, but like a few other rules it's not clearly defined and easily implemented.
RULE 5 AGGRESSIVE FOULS
5.12 To block or attempt to block with the boot
when an opponent is kicking the ball from the
hand(s).
PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS -
(i) Caution the offender; order off for
second cautionable foul.
(ii) Free kick from where the foul occurred
except as provided under Exceptions of
Rule 2.2.
It's a bit vague – the key word is when . If the blocker is some metres away, that can hardly be a block when the ball is being kicked, being after it's kicked. I also never realised it didn't apply to kicks off the ground – just kicks from the hand. I don't think a lot of referees know that either.
Quote from: Hardy on June 11, 2007, 06:31:38 PM
RULE 5 AGGRESSIVE FOULS
5.12 To block or attempt to block with the boot
when an opponent is kicking the ball from the
hand(s).
PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS -
(i) Caution the offender; order off for
second cautionable foul.
(ii) Free kick from where the foul occurred
except as provided under Exceptions of
Rule 2.2.
It's a bit vague – the key word is when . If the blocker is some metres away, that can hardly be a block when the ball is being kicked, being after it's kicked. I also never realised it didn't apply to kicks off the ground – just kicks from the hand. I don't think a lot of referees know that either.
Like most gaa rules its vague
Quote from: Hardy on June 11, 2007, 06:31:38 PM
RULE 5 AGGRESSIVE FOULS
5.12 To block or attempt to block with the boot
when an opponent is kicking the ball from the
hand(s).
PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS -
(i) Caution the offender; order off for
second cautionable foul.
(ii) Free kick from where the foul occurred
except as provided under Exceptions of
Rule 2.2.
It's a bit vague – the key word is when . If the blocker is some metres away, that can hardly be a block when the ball is being kicked, being after it's kicked. I also never realised it didn't apply to kicks off the ground – just kicks from the hand. I don't think a lot of referees know that either.
Is there not another another loop-hole here as the rule only specifies blocking with the 'boot'. I always believed the foot-block rule governs all leg-blocks too ??? (or does this fall under attempting to block with the boot?)
Also if this is the case am I right in thinking that whether or not the blocking foot is on the ground, has some bearing i.e. if a goal keeper stretches out his leg but has his 'blocking' foot firmly on the turf it is not a free.?
I had a game a while ago and I was called twice for a foot block and they resulted in two penalties. I had run across our box and I had my left foot on the ground when the player kicked the ball it hit my foot which was on the ground and I was called for a foot block and in the end we lost by a point
That sounds like you were hard done by. If your foot is on the ground, and the ball hits it, it's not a foot block. A foot block foul is designed to remove the dangerous practice of lifting your foot and intentionally trying to block the ball with your foot AS THE PLAYER IS STRIKING. Dangerous because of broken legs etc. A ball hitting you on the leg is not the same thing. One question though, how close were you to the kicker? If you were right on top of him, the ref might deem it as a foot block if he thought it was dangerous.
Quote from: Gnevin on June 11, 2007, 06:41:13 PM
Quote from: Hardy on June 11, 2007, 06:31:38 PM
RULE 5 AGGRESSIVE FOULS
5.12 To block or attempt to block with the boot
when an opponent is kicking the ball from the
hand(s).
PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS -
(i) Caution the offender; order off for
second cautionable foul.
(ii) Free kick from where the foul occurred
except as provided under Exceptions of
Rule 2.2.
It's a bit vague – the key word is when . If the blocker is some metres away, that can hardly be a block when the ball is being kicked, being after it's kicked. I also never realised it didn't apply to kicks off the ground – just kicks from the hand. I don't think a lot of referees know that either.
Like most gaa rules its vague
That rule has been changed in the last few years I can't find the old rule but when I had cause to look at the rule book in some depth in 06/07 the rule definitely stated To block or attempt to block a ball kicked from the hand.
a ref said in a game recently, a foot block is a foul whenever it is deemed to be dangerous to the kicker.
This is the problem that occurs when referees are given a refereeing course in a meeting room with a projector and no practical on-field session to explain some practical aspects of the rules
this just happened in mayo v monaghan game is the goalkeeper exempt
Quote from: Eire90 on June 05, 2022, 10:47:16 PM
this just happened in mayo v monaghan game is the goalkeeper exempt
Our club had a penalty given against us this season for a foot block by our keeper. I was miffed. But to be fair the recent went weeks have brought some clarity to it. My own take now is along the lines that of it has to be a block. And when it comes to a man blocking with his hands we all know what a block is.... you're in close enough to deliberately change the path of the ball.
so a goalkeeper cant use his feet so a goalkeeper cant use half of his limbs to save ball
Quote from: Eire90 on June 05, 2022, 11:12:05 PM
so a goalkeeper cant use his feet so a goalkeeper cant use half of his limbs to save ball
Honestly, I don't know. But I'd likely guess a keeper diving with his feet to prevent an attacker gaining a clean strike would have to be a foul
The rule needs updated like the entire rulebook, seen a guy get his leg broke once from a foot block even Though accidental. The def should be a foot block which can cause harm. To the kicking player, ie: foot comes in straight or in front of the guy kicking the ball within a foot, I thought the Mayo penalty would not been dangerous to the player, and the other one, no where near it.
I think a foot block which is dangerous to the kicker is a penalty.
If there is a bit of distance it's ok I think as the kicker won't get hurt.
Problem, I think, distance isn't in the rule book so down to what the ref/umpires say.
Common sense would dictate that it should only be a foul if the kicking action of the kicker is impeded by the "blockers" foot
Quote from: marty34 on June 05, 2022, 11:36:11 PM
I think a foot block which is dangerous to the kicker is a penalty.
If there is a bit of distance it's ok I think as the kicker won't get hurt.
Problem, I think, distance isn't in the rule book so down to what the ref/umpires say.
Defining a distance might cause more problems than it solves. Let's say for example it's defined at 1.5m, which should be just distance enough to ensure that even the longest legged man in GAA can swing a connection through in full without fear of injury. Well... it's also likely distance enough for the attacker to aim for feet instead of goal. Anyone watching the game can tell when it's a deliberate ploy from the attacker.... but can a rule book? No.
Hence the vagueness is somewhat necessary. I'm not saying it can't be less vague. But at same time, not can it be described perfectly.
Quote from: thewobbler on June 05, 2022, 11:43:39 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 05, 2022, 11:36:11 PM
I think a foot block which is dangerous to the kicker is a penalty.
If there is a bit of distance it's ok I think as the kicker won't get hurt.
Problem, I think, distance isn't in the rule book so down to what the ref/umpires say.
Defining a distance might cause more problems than it solves. Let's say for example it's defined at 1.5m, which should be just distance enough to ensure that even the longest legged man in GAA can swing a connection through in full without fear of injury. Well... it's also likely distance enough for the attacker to aim for feet instead of goal. Anyone watching the game can tell when it's a deliberate ploy from the attacker.... but can a rule book? No.
Hence the vagueness is somewhat necessary. I'm not saying it can't be less vague. But at same time, not can it be described perfectly.
Common sense also required.
Mayo penalty was correct.
Monaghan one was not - as played blocked the shot with his foot from about 5/6 yards away so no danger to the lad shooting for goal.
My favourite foot block penalty at 8:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW9Kt3lZeAI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW9Kt3lZeAI)
RULE 5 - AGGRESSIVE FOULS
Category 1 Infractions
Definition of a Category I Infraction - Being ordered off on foot of either a second Cautionable Infraction or a
Cautionable Infraction followed by a Cynical Behaviour Infraction (In Football).
Category 1 – Related Infractions
5.1 To block or attempt to block with the boot when an opponent is kicking the ball from the hand(s).
5.2 To prevent or attempt to prevent an opponent from lifting or kicking the ball off the ground by striking
an opponent's hand, arm, foot or leg with the boot.
5.3 To engage in any other form of rough play.
PENALTY FOR THE ABOVE FOULS –
(i) Caution offender; order off for second cautionable foul
(ii) Free kick from where foul occurred except as provided under Exceptions of Rule 2.2.
Above is from the rule book 2022. You might think the important part of 5.1 is "...when an opponent is kicking...". And the important part of that is the definition of "is". When does the kicking action stop? When the ball has left the kicker's boot, like what is used to interpret the offside rule in soccer?
Clearly, a block on the ball at the same time as the kicker makes contact with the ball is dangerous. But once the ball has left the kicker's boot, it would seem that the rule says that blocking with the foot is ok.
Finally, if Mayo did get a penalty, shouldn't the Monaghan player have been booked, per 5.3 (i) above? If he wasn't...and I don't think he was...then the ref doesn't fully know the rule either.
So when does "is kicking" become "has kicked" is the difference is whether a foot block is illegal or not. In my mind, a kicking action is over when the kicking foot is back on the ground, by which time the ball can be a significant distance away, so that's hardly good enough for a defender.
I defer to David McKeown and his legal mind and experience for an interpretation.
Quote from: GAABoardMod5 on June 06, 2022, 12:19:31 AM
So when does "is kicking" become "has kicked" is the difference is whether a foot block is illegal or not. In my mind, a kicking action is over when the kicking foot is back on the ground
I think that's way too wide. It's just the follow through. Monaghan lad did a full follow through with his kick, and clearly the Mayo defender was far enough away to able to legally save the shot with his foot. Whereas the Mayo attacker had to stop his follow through as the Monaghan foot block was so close.
You won't get a better example of what's legal vs illegal than the two examples in the Mayo Monaghan match.
For me the foot block needs to make contact with the player for it to be deemed a penalty should it be done in the box. anything else is can be viewed as a well timed block, you could do damage blocking a ball on a players boot with your arms, have you seen the size of these players arms now?
Sliding in and blocking with the foot, is simple enough to call, its careless/reckless depending on the 'tackle' at the time, malice has to be there for me also, and conditions, as in when its been raining and the pitch is slippery..
So not always straight forward but hey that's the rules for ya
The foot block is legal in soccer and happens often enough, the Monaghan footblock was harmless and good defending. If a defender had dived and blocked the ball with his body it would have been legal.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2022, 08:46:37 AM
For me the foot block needs to make contact with the player for it to be deemed a penalty should it be done in the box. anything else is can be viewed as a well timed block, you could do damage blocking a ball on a players boot with your arms, have you seen the size of these players arms now?
Sliding in and blocking with the foot, is simple enough to call, its careless/reckless depending on the 'tackle' at the time, malice has to be there for me also, and conditions, as in when its been raining and the pitch is slippery..
So not always straight forward but hey that's the rules for ya
How do you interpret the attempt to block element of the offence then?
Quote from: David McKeown on June 06, 2022, 12:45:51 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 06, 2022, 08:46:37 AM
For me the foot block needs to make contact with the player for it to be deemed a penalty should it be done in the box. anything else is can be viewed as a well timed block, you could do damage blocking a ball on a players boot with your arms, have you seen the size of these players arms now?
Sliding in and blocking with the foot, is simple enough to call, its careless/reckless depending on the 'tackle' at the time, malice has to be there for me also, and conditions, as in when its been raining and the pitch is slippery..
So not always straight forward but hey that's the rules for ya
How do you interpret the attempt to block element of the offence then?
5.1 To block or attempt to block with the boot when an opponent is kicking the ball from the hand(s)
This bit? By the rules they are saying its a foul so no one can argue if a ref gives it per rule, but using common sense (which we shouldn't apply depending on who is shouting at you) you can take the tackle for what it is at the time, if you feel he slid in
dangerously caught him or not then intent is enough to call a penalty, if you feel he blocked the ball safely with his foot/feet with no dangerous play to it then play on.
I think we are all sensible enough to no the difference, and that rule needs looked at
I can't find footage but Dublin were given a penalty for Niall Daly foot block on Cormac Costello in 2021 and the foot block was as I recall as far away as recent ones not given. Not every ref is clear on this rule.
Quote from: weareros on June 06, 2022, 03:27:24 PM
I can't find footage but Dublin were given a penalty for Niall Daly foot block on Cormac Costello in 2021 and the foot block was as I recall as far away as recent ones not given. Not every ref is clear on this rule.
I think he also got a black card for it. It seems to be an arbitrary decision by the ref. McIntrye and Early were spoofing on Saturday about space between foot and ball - sounded like justifying not giving Monaghan a penalty.
When I played football as a boy and teen I never even knew of a foot block rule or the square ball rule. They just expected you to know the rules, they never actually sat down and told you as a child what the rules of Gaelic football were. The highlight of my career was scoring a goal in Celtic Park in U-14 but it was ruled square ball.
Foot block seems an odd rule given that the game is called foot ball. That would be like not allowing to block with your hands in that European hand ball sport.
Quote from: Loughshore2022 on June 06, 2022, 06:03:15 PM
When I played football as a boy and teen I never even knew of a foot block rule or the square ball rule. They just expected you to know the rules, they never actually sat down and told you as a child what the rules of Gaelic football were. The highlight of my career was scoring a goal in Celtic Park in U-14 but it was ruled square ball.
Foot block seems an odd rule given that the game is called foot ball. That would be like not allowing to block with your hands in that European hand ball sport.
I reckon you would need just one feet-first sliding tackle as you go to kick a ball, to revise any of your concerns about the need for a rule.
Quote from: Loughshore2022 on June 06, 2022, 06:03:15 PM
When I played football as a boy and teen I never even knew of a foot block rule or the square ball rule. They just expected you to know the rules, they never actually sat down and told you as a child what the rules of Gaelic football were. The highlight of my career was scoring a goal in Celtic Park in U-14 but it was ruled square ball.
Foot block seems an odd rule given that the game is called foot ball. That would be like not allowing to block with your hands in that European hand ball sport.
It's the risk of danger to the kicker. It's very easy to break a kickers leg by blocking the ball or planting your foot behind a ball. The kicker can shatter the bones in their foot by kicking with power, basically like kicking a concrete block.
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 07, 2022, 07:44:34 AM
Quote from: Loughshore2022 on June 06, 2022, 06:03:15 PM
When I played football as a boy and teen I never even knew of a foot block rule or the square ball rule. They just expected you to know the rules, they never actually sat down and told you as a child what the rules of Gaelic football were. The highlight of my career was scoring a goal in Celtic Park in U-14 but it was ruled square ball.
Foot block seems an odd rule given that the game is called foot ball. That would be like not allowing to block with your hands in that European hand ball sport.
It's the risk of danger to the kicker. It's very easy to break a kickers leg by blocking the ball or planting your foot behind a ball. The kicker can shatter the bones in their foot by kicking with power, basically like kicking a concrete block.
The footblock happens without incident in soccer. That Monaghan footblock was harmless.
I'd beg to differ having been at the wrong end of a particularly bad foot-block. It's a good rule, but needs tightened up,
Quote from: APM on June 07, 2022, 12:39:08 PM
I'd beg to differ having been at the wrong end of a particularly bad foot-block. It's a good rule, but needs tightened up,
Same as myself, and I was in goals. Thought the full forward had broke my foot and ankle at the time. I've seen what looked like innocent enough block attempts with the foot out, as in sideways not studs up, causing serious injuries too.
Sometimes refs call a foot block for the keeper spreading himself 4 or 5 yards away from the forward. You have to be able to spread your body to make a save
Quote from: Main Street on June 07, 2022, 11:37:33 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 07, 2022, 07:44:34 AM
Quote from: Loughshore2022 on June 06, 2022, 06:03:15 PM
When I played football as a boy and teen I never even knew of a foot block rule or the square ball rule. They just expected you to know the rules, they never actually sat down and told you as a child what the rules of Gaelic football were. The highlight of my career was scoring a goal in Celtic Park in U-14 but it was ruled square ball.
Foot block seems an odd rule given that the game is called foot ball. That would be like not allowing to block with your hands in that European hand ball sport.
It's the risk of danger to the kicker. It's very easy to break a kickers leg by blocking the ball or planting your foot behind a ball. The kicker can shatter the bones in their foot by kicking with power, basically like kicking a concrete block.
The footblock happens without incident in soccer. That Monaghan footblock was harmless.
No it doesn't, we see horrendous injuries in soccer because of it
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 07, 2022, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 07, 2022, 11:37:33 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 07, 2022, 07:44:34 AM
Quote from: Loughshore2022 on June 06, 2022, 06:03:15 PM
When I played football as a boy and teen I never even knew of a foot block rule or the square ball rule. They just expected you to know the rules, they never actually sat down and told you as a child what the rules of Gaelic football were. The highlight of my career was scoring a goal in Celtic Park in U-14 but it was ruled square ball.
Foot block seems an odd rule given that the game is called foot ball. That would be like not allowing to block with your hands in that European hand ball sport.
It's the risk of danger to the kicker. It's very easy to break a kickers leg by blocking the ball or planting your foot behind a ball. The kicker can shatter the bones in their foot by kicking with power, basically like kicking a concrete block.
The footblock happens without incident in soccer. That Monaghan footblock was harmless.
No it doesn't, we see horrendous injuries in soccer because of it
Can you point to some examples?
Neither of the two foot blocks in the Mayo Monaghan game were remotely dangerous, in fact they were examples of very good last ditch defending which prevented two goal bound shots from hitting the back of the net.
How many times do you see a goalkeeper foot block? Cluxton?
I think it should be up to ref to determine what is a dangerous block, as with a studs up tackle in soccer.
i think the goalkeeper should be allowed to save with his feet if hes inside his rectangle maybe outfielders too if a shot is made from outside the rectangle maybe this is allowed i stand corrected if wrong.
Quote from: Main Street on June 07, 2022, 10:48:39 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 07, 2022, 01:55:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 07, 2022, 11:37:33 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on June 07, 2022, 07:44:34 AM
Quote from: Loughshore2022 on June 06, 2022, 06:03:15 PM
When I played football as a boy and teen I never even knew of a foot block rule or the square ball rule. They just expected you to know the rules, they never actually sat down and told you as a child what the rules of Gaelic football were. The highlight of my career was scoring a goal in Celtic Park in U-14 but it was ruled square ball.
Foot block seems an odd rule given that the game is called foot ball. That would be like not allowing to block with your hands in that European hand ball sport.
It's the risk of danger to the kicker. It's very easy to break a kickers leg by blocking the ball or planting your foot behind a ball. The kicker can shatter the bones in their foot by kicking with power, basically like kicking a concrete block.
The footblock happens without incident in soccer. That Monaghan footblock was harmless.
No it doesn't, we see horrendous injuries in soccer because of it
Can you point to some examples?
Neither of the two foot blocks in the Mayo Monaghan game were remotely dangerous, in fact they were examples of very good last ditch defending which prevented two goal bound shots from hitting the back of the net.
How many times do you see a goalkeeper foot block? Cluxton?
I think it should be up to ref to determine what is a dangerous block, as with a studs up tackle in soccer.
Alan Smith had a bad injury from an attempted block. Heard of others before but he's the one off the top of my head.
The 1st one could have been. You don't need to actually see an injury to say it's dangerous. It's been in the rules here for a while due to bad injuries in the past. My old man had a story years ago of a defender placing his foot behind the ball as the forward was kicking it, and the forward shattered his leg on kicking it, as he was essentially kicking a solid object. This wasn't uncommon in the past, and it's why it was brought in.
Heard a ref during the week clearing it up from his point of view. He calls it a foot block if the block is attempted within the arc of the kickers swing, where you can risk injury to the kicker. So essentially he called it that the 1st incident last weekend was a foot block, the 2nd one wasn't due to the distance away. Think there's no issue with keepers saving it in this case with their feet if it's at distance.
Main Street:
There is no way the foot block rule was part of the original rules of Gaelic Games.
Do you think It was subsequently added because a) someone thought that they should clarify all potential fouls in writing, or b) as a response to players diving feet first towards the ball and causing injury?
Take it out of the rule book and the ref decide? No. It would only be back, but with more detail, within a year.
As a dual referee - the problem on Saturday was lack of knowledge by everyone except the referee.
The sky commentary team knew nothing of the rule citing distances - utter rubbish - if you don't know say nothing as it added to confusion and subsequent comments on social media.
As alluded to in an earlier post - who teaches players the rules and are coaches/players in tune with the rules and rule changes.
I'm sick hearing about square balls and players foot placement on line ball kicks and how I'm in the wrong for calling/not calling them.
The biggest issue for me is the lack of information coming from the GAA - and that goes for a lot of rules and rule changes.
Take the wording of the footblock - in rule the referee was 100% correct in both calls but changing the wording of the rule recently and not subsequently making that information public isn't right.
From a hurling perspective the lack of clarity in rules is very frustrating at present around head high challenges (and its creeping into football too) - we all get told at seminars about dangerous tackling/contact above the shoulder and how it should be a red but;
In the 2019 All Ireland semi final - Richie Hogan gets taken out by a cork player - head high contact - no red card
In the 2019 All Ireland final - Richie Hogan hits Cathal Barrett - head high contact - red card
Last Saturdays Leinster final - 2 incidents where players are both hit to the head - no red card for either
and the above games were all refereed by the same person.
Id they don't deal with rules and give public the info it just enables chaos on matchdays
the most important thing to remember about Stephan Coen tackle is thatit was not acually a foot block . Hw spread him as big as possible in front of the kicker and the ball actualy hit his shin
End of controversy
The other penalty claim should possibly have been given but as Coady said to marty did you go through every decision to see if it was correct.
Rarely do i leave a game without thinking of a few refs blunder even Saturday Carney was fouled in the Square and landed outside it and ref gave a free Kick.
https://nitter.poast.org/cormacpro/status/1705655893969301686#m
That's a horrendous call
We have the sight of players who can dive directly in front of the ball kicker, performing a fully stretched arm and face block directly against the kicker. When effectively carried out, the GAA world is giving the fearless defender a standing ovation, no mention of heath and safety.
But when the leg is used to block the ball regardless of minimal or non existent danger, the GAA world screams Footblock!! 'One leg bad, two arms good'